DID CAP GIVE AWAY A Building?

[Earhart1971]

Here's how most of these threads develop.

Nobody on this thread knows from direct knowledge whats going on.

They try and refute what a person that has direct knowledge has to say.

For no reason other than to be contrary.

Who else on this thread has been at the building during the time material to this action?

I was there and met there months before the building was signed over.

The rest of you can read the MOU, suppose all you want about the condition of the building.

The Building was in great shape and not inviolation of any codes.

There were problems with the Real Estate Agreement originally put through, which could have been worked out - if there had been a Wing Commander that would spend some time to retain a Half Million Dollar asset for CAP.

So, instead of that being done. Col Levitch jumped headlong, into the deal without talking to the Squadron Commander, and signed a MOU.

[JohnKachenmeister]

You are right, E.  I don't know the specific situation. 

Please explain to me how CAP can "Give away" a building that is on land owned by another.

To me, this sounds like merely the end of an agreement to use a structure.

There cannot be a building owned by one party on land owned by another.  Unless the building is a trailer, or a similar temporary structure.  If an improvement is made to property, it is a part of the property.

[lordmonar]

Here's how most of these threads develop.

Nobody on this thread knows from direct knowledge whats going on.

They try and refute what a person that has direct knowledge has to say.

For no reason other than to be contrary.

Who else on this thread has been at the building during the time material to this action?

I was there and met there months before the building was signed over.

The rest of you can read the MOU, suppose all you want about the condition of the building.

The Building was in great shape and not in violation of any codes.

There were problems with the Real Estate Agreement originally put through, which could have been worked out - if there had been a Wing Commander that would spend some time to retain a Half Million Dollar asset for CAP.

So, instead of that being done. Col Levitch jumped headlong, into the deal without talking to the Squadron Commander, and signed a MOU.

But you don't understand.....this has NOTHING to do with the condition of the building.  It has to do with the law and CAP regulations.   

The WING commander DOES NOT HAVE TO TALK WITH THE SQUADRON COMMANDER to decide what to do with with CAP assets!

Sorry CAP is NOT a democracy.

Was FLWG/CC's decision arbitrary, could he have done more home work....maybe...I don't know all the details.  But the accusation that the law or CAP regs was broken...is not really true.  Yes FLWG entered into the agreement in violation of the regs...but he did finally go though the proper channels and his actions were approved......so it was belated complaince...but he did in fact get NB approval for his actions.

The condition of the building, and the wants and actions of the Airport Manager and the fact that the building was a labor of love has nothing to do with this situation.

Did CAP give away a building?  Yes....but from the MOU they (the local CAP squadron) still have access to that same building.....FREE OF CHARGE....where before CAP was paying a majority (if not all) of the utilities and up keep.  What's the problem?  It seems like a good deal.

[Earhart1971]

The Wing Commander cannot sign over assets without approval of National HQ.

But thats not the real issue.  The real telling issue is how  CAP is working against the best interests of CAP.

There was a lack of desire of the Wing Commander, to even look into a situation and talk to the local Commander, but instead, go around the local Commander and talk direct to the Airport Manager.

And degrade the negotiating position of the local Commander by doing so.

Many other things could have been done.

[lordmonar]

The Wing Commander cannot sign over assets without approval of National HQ.

But thats not the real issue.  The real telling issue is how  CAP is working against the best interests of CAP.

There was a lack of desire of the Wing Commander, to even look into a situation and talk to the local Commander, but instead, go around the local Commander and talk direct to the Airport Manager.

And degrade the negotiating position of the local Commander by doing so.

Many other things could have been done.

First....the wing commander made the deal and then had the NB approve it.  There may be some incompetence in the timing but you can't say the regulation was not followed/

Second....in what way of removing a drain on CAP financial resources NOT in CAP's best interest?  It's not like we can sell the building and get the money....it was never our building to sell (if what John was saying is correct).  So the value of the building is not the key here.  But the costs to the CAP.

Third...it seems like we got a better deal.  We get the same building, with more or less the same access with none of the headache of maintaining it and paying for the utilities.  Seems like a sweetheart deal to me.

Finally...the local (squadron) commander has NO negotiating power.  Only corporate officers have that power and that is the WING commander and above.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Lord M:

You beat me to it.  I was just about ready to type in that the Wing Commander has sole authority over real estate transactions, MOU's and appointment of investigators.  He is a "Corporate Officer" and as such can commit CAP asets.

Squadron commanders cannot.

[RiverAux]

Interesting, our buddy RayH has been stealing sections of posts out of this CAPTalk thread and posting them on his blog site, along with all sort of "friendly" commentary about how some of our more distinguished contributors are so stupid. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

Does he publish the "Smilin' Kach" comic series?

[Earhart1971]

The Wing Commander cannot sign over assets without approval of National HQ.

But thats not the real issue.  The real telling issue is how  CAP is working against the best interests of CAP.

There was a lack of desire of the Wing Commander, to even look into a situation and talk to the local Commander, but instead, go around the local Commander and talk direct to the Airport Manager.

And degrade the negotiating position of the local Commander by doing so.

Many other things could have been done.

First....the wing commander made the deal and then had the NB approve it.  There may be some incompetence in the timing but you can't say the regulation was not followed/

Second....in what way of removing a drain on CAP financial resources NOT in CAP's best interest?  It's not like we can sell the building and get the money....it was never our building to sell (if what John was saying is correct).  So the value of the building is not the key here.  But the costs to the CAP.

Third...it seems like we got a better deal.  We get the same building, with more or less the same access with none of the headache of maintaining it and paying for the utilities.  Seems like a sweetheart deal to me.

Finally...the local (squadron) commander has NO negotiating power.  Only corporate officers have that power and that is the WING commander and above.

In your opinion, the Local Squadron Commander had no negotiating power, you are right, but that was a condition that was created by the stupidity of the Wing Commander.

Ok, so its not in CAP's best interest to have its own building, in YOUR OPINION.

But don't go trying to say its not in Squadron's best interest to have a Squadron Building, you look foolish, all over this thread, by forcing your Opinion on the rest of us.

[BillB]

How about a moderator locking this thread since some people are getting nasty and false information.

[lordmonar]

The Wing Commander cannot sign over assets without approval of National HQ.

But thats not the real issue.  The real telling issue is how  CAP is working against the best interests of CAP.

There was a lack of desire of the Wing Commander, to even look into a situation and talk to the local Commander, but instead, go around the local Commander and talk direct to the Airport Manager.

And degrade the negotiating position of the local Commander by doing so.

Many other things could have been done.

First....the wing commander made the deal and then had the NB approve it.  There may be some incompetence in the timing but you can't say the regulation was not followed/

Second....in what way of removing a drain on CAP financial resources NOT in CAP's best interest?  It's not like we can sell the building and get the money....it was never our building to sell (if what John was saying is correct).  So the value of the building is not the key here.  But the costs to the CAP.

Third...it seems like we got a better deal.  We get the same building, with more or less the same access with none of the headache of maintaining it and paying for the utilities.  Seems like a sweetheart deal to me.

Finally...the local (squadron) commander has NO negotiating power.  Only corporate officers have that power and that is the WING commander and above.

In your opinion, the Local Squadron Commander had no negotiating power, you are right, but that was a condition that was created by the stupidity of the Wing Commander.

Ok, so its not in CAP's best interest to have its own building, in YOUR OPINION.

But don't go trying to say its not in Squadron's best interest to have a Squadron Building, you look foolish, all over this thread, by forcing your Opinion on the rest of us.

Let's assume for a moment....that the building was in fact CAP building, just for argument sakes.  CAP pays rent on the land, utilities, up keep, and is responsible for keeping it in code, paying for the liability and a host of other things necessary to own and run a public building.

Okay...the city comes a long and says.....sign over your lease and we'll give you access to the building in pretty much the same manner as you do now and we'll assume all the costs.

So....CAP was paying some sort of money each month to maintain the building and now they pay nothing.  They still get to meet there, they still get to use it as a mission base, they still get to use it for special occasions (this is the only thing they that has change...now they have to schedule special access instead of doling it out).

So CAP....the squadron.....has lost nothing except a drain on its finance, and building that it had to manage.

The squadron benefits by having more money at its disposal, it benefits from a good relationship with the city (everyone got what they wanted).

Sure this is my opinion....and in no way am I forcing my opinion onto you or anyone else.  I just wonder why the heart burn? 

Before the agreement the squadron had a nice building....after the agreement the squadron meets in that same building....free of charge.

Good deal?  You tell me.

Before the agreement the squadron had problems with the Airport Manager...now he should be happy...having a happy airport manger is bad how?

Good deal?  You tell me.

Let's suppose for a moment that the $0.75M value is true....so what?  If anything it would make it a tax liability.  You were paying property taxes right?  We could not use it as collateral for a loan, we could not sell it to buy a couple of planes (or better yet flying hours).  In what way is owning a building vice just using one in CAP's interest?

I will grant you that it was YOUR building and it may seem callus and arbitrary that the Wing CC would take it away from you and give it to someone else.  You may be too emotionally involved with the issue to really look at it objectively.

End state though.......what has changed?  The squadron still has a place to meet and do their operations.....but they no longer have the bills that go with them.

[Earhart1971]

That MOU can be cancelled by the City of Leesburg at any time.

You pretend CAP still gets the same benefit.

Lots of Squadrons meet in nice places, and they can be booted out at any time.

The MOU is like that, CAP can be booted out at any time at the pleasure of the City of Leesburg.

Its a lost asset to CAP.

The Radio tower came down, the Radio room was closed, and two rooms can be used with permission.

They went from several thousand feet to 800 s.f.

End of Story.

[MIKE]

End of thread.