Senior Member Corporate Uniform

[AvroArrow]

Hey, y'all.

My dad's a bit computer illiterate, so I'm on here asking a question for him. 

My dad's a bit lazy in the sense that he doesn't like to worry about a lot of uniform regulations, etc. (can't blame him though, right?  ) and he's interested in getting the white aviator shirt with gray trousers. But, I can't find gray trousers on thehock.com nor Vanguard... so!

• Where can he/we get some gray trousers?
• Accesories for the "Corporate Servie Uniform:" i.e the epaulettes and nameplate. I've heard that you wear the gray, 3-line nameplate and the gray epaulettes with "CAP" on them just like you would with the AF  Service Uniform for SMs. Is that true? If so, where can
  he/we get them?
• My father does meet the weight requirements (if not only by a few pounds ) but wants to have freedom in facial grooming
• If you know any other useful information on this subject, please, oh PLEASE reply. 

Thanks.
Avro

[DC]

Much of the information can be found in... Drum roll.... CAPM 39-1. The uniform manual, oh my gosh, that makes sense....

For the pants, there is no standard. Have him look through his closet and find his favorite pair of grey pants.

Epaulets and nameplate - Vanguard.

[JoeTomasone]

You can get them pretty much anywhere - they are not special trousers.  Sears, Wal-Mart, etc.   As long as they match the grey of the grade epaulets, you're good to go.

Nameplate and epaulets: Correct.

Any senior member, even those not meeting the weight/grooming standards, may wear the white over grey combination.

If you want more information, why not start at Page 73 of CAPM 39-1?

http://level2.cap.gov/documents/u_082203102943.pdf

You would have found all of the above there with the exception of the shopping advice.

[AvroArrow]

We looked through the 39-1 and other forms/publications from National; we've seen a lot of mixed messages.

One that came out mid-'07 is different from the 39-1 in '05, and there was another on what specific type of epaulettes and nameplates for the corporate uniform that you wear/buy that was published in Spring, '08.




But, I'll take Page 73 and just run with it. Once more, thanks for helping me 

[IceNine]

Are you asking wheter you should use the '05 or '07 verison?

Cause go with the '07, and in all cases the most up to date regulation's/manuals/pamphlets

[jimmydeanno]

The short run down:

You might be better off grabbing page 75...

1. Nameplate: Gray, 3-line CAP nameplate is worn immediately above the right breast pocket. Get this from Vanguard or the Hock.

2. Grade Insignia: Gray CAP epaulet sleeves displaying grade insignia. Get this from Vanguard or the Hock.

3. Tie/Tab: USAF blue tie (males) or CAP blue ties/floppy bow are authorized. Mandatory with long sleeve shirt.

4. CAP Aviation Badges and Specialty Insignia: Worn 1/2 inch above the left breast pocket or 1/2-inch above CAP ribbons. If both an aviation badge and specialty insignia are worn the specialty insignia will be placed 1/2 inch below the aviation badge.

5. CAP Specialty Badges: Worn centered on left breast pocket. Females also have the option of wearing specialty badges 1/2 inch above the pocket (beneath the aviation badge) if they prefer.

6. CAP Command Badge: Worn centered on right breast, 1/2 inch above the nameplate.

7. Worn with gray trousers/skirts/slacks. Footwear, slacks, trousers, or skirt and accessories are the same as prescribed for the CAP blazer combination.

8. AF cardigan with gray epaulet sleeves with grade insignia and without wing/region patch may be worn with this combination only. AF pullover sweater is not authorized.

9. Any civilian outergarments may be worn including the CAP blue embroidered jacket may be worn with this combination.

10. CAP ribbons may be worn centered above the left breast pocket. No military ribbons may be worn.

11. Only the CAP aviation badge and one additional CAP badge are authorized on this uniform. No military badges or devices are authorized.

Then pull out page 83.  It gives descriptions for the belt, shoes pants, etc.  I'll leave the "too lazy to look up his own uniform needs" comment alone.

[JoeTomasone]

Don't confuse the Corporate Uniform with the White Aviator/Grey Trousers uniform!

There are two alternative uniforms to the Blues:


1.  The white aviator shirt, grey pants, grey epaulet grade insignia, grey 3-line nametag uniform
(The "Men's and Women's Aviator Shirt with Epaulets (Senior Members Only)" uniform pictured on 39-1 page 75)


2.  The white aviator shirt, BLUE pants, BLUE AF epaulet grade insignia, BLUE 2-line nametag uniform
(The "Corporate" uniform which is NOT in the current 39-1 but detailed in the 25 Jan 08 change letter at http://level2.cap.gov/documents/2008_01_25_Uniforms.pdf).


These uniforms are sometimes called the "white over grey" and "white over blue" uniforms for obvious reasons.   The Corporate ("white over blue") is also sometimes referred to as the "Tony Pineda Uniform" (TPU) here on Captalk by some who associate it with his tenure as National Commander.  

Also, it should be noted that members do not have to meet the weight/grooming standards to wear the white/grey combination but DO have to meet the grooming standards to wear the white/blue.

Cadets must always meet the grooming standards no matter what CAP uniform they wear.

[RiverAux]

If he doesn't want to worry about uniform regulations, then the only uniform for him would be the blue golf shirt/gray pants combo.  With all the other ones you have to worry to one extent or the other about proper placement of nametags, ribbons, etc.  The corporate uniforms still have details that need to be followed, proper customs and courtesies, etc.

[SarDragon]

'07 version of what? The CAPM 39-1 is dated 23 MARCH 2005, and is the umbrella reg.

From here,  ICLs that apply are:

This one

This one

This one

All the prior ICLs have been rescinded, or consolidated into the first two above.

[stratoflyer]

Uh, aren't the grey's on their way out...I've read in different places that they will be down the road...why they got the CSU

[JoeTomasone]

I doubt it since I can't see the USAF allowing both fat AND fuzzy in a more USAF-styled uniform.

When you think about it, that's the ONLY USAF uniform in which we wear anything actually USAF (the epaulet grade insigna) -- unless you count the U.S. cutouts on the Service Jacket.

[Rangercap]

You can get them pretty much anywhere - they are not special trousers.  Sears, Wal-Mart, etc.   As long as they match the grey of the grade epaulets, you're good to go.

Nameplate and epaulets: Correct.

Any senior member, even those not meeting the weight/grooming standards, may wear the white over grey combination.

If you want more information, why not start at Page 73 of CAPM 39-1?

http://level2.cap.gov/documents/u_082203102943.pdf

You would have found all of the above there with the exception of the shopping advice.

So CAP is specific about matching the epaulets? Where is 39-1? Just wondering if it is actually spelled out. It makes perfect sense to me... but grey or gray or slate or gunmetal... trousers, pants, slacks, pantaloons... whatever it is, there was a variety of gray at the National Board meeting, few of which actually matched the epaulets.

I have been told that you can get GRAY pants through the American Legion or VFW catalogs (I didn;t know they even had catalogs). They are actually GRAY and match the epaulets very closely... if you are really that anal about it.

For the official word... page 83

Commercial dress slacks/trousers of medium gray flannel, tropical worsted, or
similar commercial blend, full cut, straight hanging, with or without pleats,
with or without cuffs. (No jeans or casual slacks.) No bunching at waist or
bagging at seat.

My gray pants - Haggars.

I have also seen people with gray EMT/BDU pants, ironed of course, with black combat boots. They trimmed the laced off the cuffs, too. That is probably pushing the trouser envelope, though.

Brian
PAWG

[JoeTomasone]

The way it was explained to me (which made sense but isn't terribly authoritative) is:

Commercial dress slacks/trousers of medium gray flannel, tropical worsted, or
similar commercial blend

And the epaulets are supposedly the "medium gray" color, and while they look like a different shade, I can't decide if it's just the difference between the materials or not.   At any rate, the basic premise was that the three should not look noticeably different.   

[Eclipse]

My opinion:

The aviator whites are a service dress style uniform and members should wear dress pants with this combination.

The golf shirt is a working uniform and Dockers or similarly styled casual trousers, or even tactical pants are acceptable.

The color is ambiguous purposelessly to allow for members to use items they have in their closet.  Casual pants may have colors close to the epaulets, but dress pants should be a lot darker - the typical wool-blend type pants that most men own at least one version of.

[SarDragon]

The grey pants I'm wearing right now (and wore last night to my meeting) are from Sears, the Flex Slacks brand, and they match the color of the grade sleeves very well. I have a different pair in the closet from Penney's that are a little darker, but are still "medium grey".

[RiverAux]

I have also seen people with gray EMT/BDU pants, ironed of course, with black combat boots. They trimmed the laced off the cuffs, too. That is probably pushing the trouser envelope, though.

Actually, it breaks the trouser envelope if they have six pockets according to the knowledgebase.

[billford1]

At the wing I'm in the CDRs Call  and squadron meetings I've attended I've never been to one that looked uniform.  I'm one of a few who wears the gray slacks. None of us who do wear gray slacks have the gray that is the same shade or that match the epaulets. Mine are darker than the gray epaulets.  If the shade of gray slacks is enforced don't be surprised if the turnout of members gets smaller. I want to be uniform compliant but the importance of a single shade of gray seems insignificant to me. I would feel differently if everybody wore the gray slacks but most of those I see wear the AF blue.

[stratoflyer]

And here we go again.

[billford1]

Yes; Here we go again.  I mean no disrespect Lt. but it's the same old stuff. The only part of "Commercial dress trousers of medium gray flannel, tropical worsted, or similar commercial blend, full cut, straight hanging" is the medium gray part. I see it interpreted in a range of shades. Mine look medium gray to me because I spent more for them and they fit great. I saw a Col with gray BDU trousers but that's all he could find that fit. This topic will quiet down and come back again.

[heliodoc]

Wow if the real Air Force could read this now....

Oh wait a minute, they probably are and laughing

It could be a funny day when CAP may not be able to get RM uniforms

But I am not going to hold my breath

[SarDragon]

Yes; Here we go again.  I mean no disrespect Lt. but it's the same old stuff. The only part of "Commercial dress trousers of medium gray flannel, tropical worsted, or similar commercial blend, full cut, straight hanging" is the medium gray part. I see it interpreted in a range of shades. Mine look medium gray to me because I spent more for them and they fit great. I saw a Col with gray BDU trousers but that's all he could find that fit. This topic will quiet down and come back again.

Is there no common sense left out there? (not a personal fang at you, Bill)

Go to the store, ask for medium grey, and see what you get. Both brands I get say "medium grey" on the tags. I'm sure other brands do as well. Charcoal is too dark; light is, well, too light. As I said above, take a pair of rank sleeves with you, and get what matches.

This isn't rocket surgery! 

[RiverAux]

Although we have discussed the gray trousers before, I'm pretty sure I've never heard anyone proposing the simple solution to try to match the trousers to the color of the gray epalet. 

Short of requiring everyone to buy the same brand, style, and color of trouser from a specific manufacturer, that seems like the single best idea out there for trying to achieve some level of uniformity for those pants. 

However, this is still to vague to make a specific requirement, but could potentially be inserted into 39-1 as a general guide to what CAP means by medium gray.

God help us, you know they'd start producing epalets in all sorts of shade variations then... 

[billford1]

Of course they're laughing. What's a RM uniform?

[SarDragon]

I think the reference is to a RealMilitary™ uniform.

[DC]

God help us, you know they'd start producing epalets in all sorts of shade variations then... 

I'm sure Vanguard would like that...

[stratoflyer]

Rocket surgery? What's that?

[Al Sayre]

It's kind of like Brain Science...

[stratoflyer]

Uh huh, ok. Makes sense now!