BBDU Thread

[ColonelJack]

No utility uniforms for the fat and fuzzies.  Personally, I wouldn't have a problem if they relaxed the fuzzy standards and let them wear AF uniforms of all types, but thats not my call.  They just shouldn't have a separate uniform of their own.

The corporate blues are for the fat.  Should those be done away with as well? 

And the aviator grays are for the fuzzy.  Same question.

Jack

[RiverAux]

This is a thread about BBDUs....

[ColonelJack]

This is a thread about BBDUs....

True.

You've also not answered the questions.

(I oughta be a lawyer!)

Jack

[RiverAux]

This is a thread about BBDUs....

True.

You've also not answered the questions.

(I oughta be a lawyer!)

And the judge would probably not allow the question as it is immaterial to the discussion at hand. 

Tags - MIKE

[ColonelJack]

Hmm.

Maybe you oughta be a lawyer!   

Seriously, though ... I'd like to know your answer to the question about the other uniforms.

By the way, I like your poll on BDUs being the working uniform of CAP after the Air Force transitions to the new uniform.  Will those be available to all in your proposal?

Jack

[Hawk200]

By the way, I like your poll on BDUs being the working uniform of CAP after the Air Force transitions to the new uniform.  Will those be available to all in your proposal?

It's not going to work that way. Just because the military phases out a uniform does not mean that CAP gets to do with it as they please. If that were true, we'd probably still be in fatigues.

Also, the BDU was designed by the Army. It's still their uniform. It will not become an exclusive CAP design because the Air Force ceases to use it.

How exactly has having other uniforms affected CAP's ability to perform it's mission? Can someone show me where someone being in an alternate uniform has seriously impacted that? Having five different corporate variations is far less uniform than having one military and one corporate version.

And most people don't seem to be bearing in mind that National is the one discriminating with the Corporate Service Dress. The Air Force had nothing to do with it. They had only a couple restrictions on wearing blues: meet the grooming standards, but with a slightly relaxed weight standard. Corporates have far more variation.

[SarDragon]

Though I am Observer qualified, most of the ES work I have done recently has been UDF team, or Flight Line operations. The only uniform I have available that I would even consider wearing to go Dumpster diving is BDUs. Additionally, I consider the flight line to be a "dirty" environment where BDUs are appropriate. Are you suggesting that I give up my ES duties and stick to pushing paper somewhere? Not gonna happen.

Ball's in your court.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I'm not saying the overweight people don't contribute, but they shouldn't be out on ground teams which is the primary purpose of the BDU uniform.  Yes, it is commonly worn at many squadron meetings and sure you might wear for other duties where fitness may not be as big an issue, but they are relatively minor.  Wearing it without grade is a cop out --- you're just as overweight without the grade as you are with it.   

Be careful equating "Overweight" with "Unfit."  A person with a low body fat and high muscle mass is in excellent physical condition and will be 'way over the weight table in 39-1.

[RiverAux]

I think you'll find I usually used "fit".  But, I think you'll agree that of the folks that don't meet USAF weight standards most are overweight and unfit.  I'd say the percentage that are overweight but fit is fairly low. 

[arajca]

The general impression the overweight = unfit is one reason the fire service has gone to performance based physical evaluations. The overall goal is to ensure the firefighter can perform the tasks required without becoming a victim.

The same idea should be used for GT and other physcally demanding CAP duties. There are already accepted and proven physical tests for various levels of SAR team duties. Why not steal adopt these?

[RiverAux]

I've got no problem with those and with the implementation of the new national standards that CAP will have to meet sooner or later, CAP members will have to pass such tests to participate in ES. 

[RogueLeader]

I find it offensive to think that just because somebody really prefers one uniform over another, and would leave before being forced into a uniform that they had no care for-, is that they don't contribute much to the organization.  While that may be likely the majority of that crowd, it is not all of it.  As it happens, I consider myself very active in CAP, and I am continually looking to be more so.  Do the AF uniforms mean alot to me?  Heck yeah.  I consider the loss of them to be cutting away a vital piece from the Group.  While I don't like the Corporate versions, I believe the same way if all the Corporates we cut as well.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I think you'll find I usually used "fit".  But, I think you'll agree that of the folks that don't meet USAF weight standards most are overweight and unfit.  I'd say the percentage that are overweight but fit is fairly low. 

I wouldn't be so sure.

When I commanded an Army company, we had a "Screening weight," but those over the screening weight were sent for a body fat analysis.  About half of my company would be over the screening weight, but usually only 3 or 4 were over the body fat standard.  Almost all were able to pass the Army Physical Fitness Test.

That's the problem with using the basic training entry weight standard, since it presumes average muscle development, but the process of military training (or athletic training for football or wrestling, etc.) builds muscle mass. Muscle has a far higher density than fat, and consequently weighs more per cubic inch.   

[RiverAux]

Well, now we're talking apples and oranges.  Overweight people in the Army are probably much, much more likely to be able to meet a fitness standard than are CAP members who don't meet our weight standards. 

Most overweight CAP people are really overweight and unfit as well.