V-necks

[Flying Pig]

Why in the world would anyone ever mandate the wear of V-neck t-shirts in uniform. 


Father forgive them for they know not what the do........

[shorning]

Why do I want to see your undergarments?

[Stonewall]

Why in the world would anyone ever mandate the wear of V-neck t-shirts in uniform. 

Because General McPeak's wife liked to see chest hair?  I don't know but they're rediculously stupid.

[SarDragon]

I like my v-necks. 

[SARMedTech]

V-Necks look silly/unfinished with a uniform with an open neck. We see them with BDUs, why not with the service uniform with an open collar. With a v-neck it looks like you ran out out of the house and forgot to finish getting dressed. Makes me cringe every time I see it. My biological father was in the USAF during the VietNam era and they had a trick of turning their crew neck t-shirts around backward under fatigues so they would be tight. Adopted father (read as Dad) did the same thing with his Sheriffs department uniforms for 37 years. In every EMS department or agency Ive been in so far, we have been required to wear visible crew neck t-shirts under an open collar and it was pounded in to me to do it as a young man to the extent that to this day, I wont wear an open collar without a visible t-shirt. Goes right along with not going out unshaven if Im not growing a beard. I hate wearing my blues now with an open neck. Makes me look like a tourist.

PS- How many of you actually wear shirt stays?

[JayT]

I do, every time I'm in service uniform.

Who cares what other organizations do? If people don't like the v neck shirt, then they can wear a tie. Or, join the Naval Sea Cadets Corps.

[SARMedTech]

Theres an open mind for ya! 

[JayT]

Naw, I do think that the crew neck looks better.

But in terms of uniform issues, it's not. Thats an Air Force call from 15 years ago, not a CAP screw up.

[SARMedTech]

Naw, I do think that the crew neck looks better.

But in terms of uniform issues, it's not. Thats an Air Force call from 15 years ago, not a CAP screw up.

I was just messing with you in case you were NHQ staff in disguise. 

[Major Carrales]

At first I was not even aware of what a "V-neck" was and, since I had never seen CAPM 39-1 and only followed the instructions and leads of long time squadron members.  That was 1998.

Now, I simply have replaced all my crew necks with V necks so it is a moot issue.

[Eclipse]

At first I was not even aware of what a "V-neck" was and, since I had never seen CAPM 39-1 and only followed the instructions and leads of long time squadron members.  That was 1998.

Now, I simply have replaced all my crew necks with V necks so it is a moot issue.

A pair of scissors can serve to correct the issue in a pinch as well.

[SarDragon]

V-Necks look silly/unfinished with a uniform with an open neck. We see them with BDUs, why not with the service uniform with an open collar. With a v-neck it looks like you ran out out of the house and forgot to finish getting dressed. Makes me cringe every time I see it. My biological father was in the USAF during the VietNam era and they had a trick of turning their crew neck t-shirts around backward under fatigues so they would be tight. Adopted father (read as Dad) did the same thing with his Sheriffs department uniforms for 37 years. In every EMS department or agency Ive been in so far, we have been required to wear visible crew neck t-shirts under an open collar and it was pounded in to me to do it as a young man to the extent that to this day, I wont wear an open collar without a visible t-shirt. Goes right along with not going out unshaven if Im not growing a beard. I hate wearing my blues now with an open neck. Makes me look like a tourist.

PS- How many of you actually wear shirt stays?

Well, my dad was career Navy, and I carry similar baggage as you. I have elected to discard some of it, though, and wear v-necks (albeit all year round) except when crew necks are mandated, or when safety issues suggest the additional protection.

Shirt stays, as in the elastic thingies that hook your shirt tail to your sox? I wear them with my aviator shirt combination.

[RogueLeader]

I was wondering about those, the shirt stays.  Do they really work/ how much do they cost?

[SarDragon]

I was wondering about those, the shirt stays.  Do they really work/ how much do they cost?

My shirt garters, as named on the package, cost me $5 at the local mil uni shop, and IIRC, are also available from Vanguard. Thy feel a little strange to wear at first, and you'll need to play around with the locations where you clip them, but my shirt stayed tucked in all weekend while I was instructing at an SLS, and it looked really sharp.

[Eclipse]

I was wondering about those, the shirt stays.  Do they really work/ how much do they cost?

My shirt garters, as named on the package, cost me $5 at the local mil uni shop, and IIRC, are also available from Vanguard. Thy feel a little strange to wear at first, and you'll need to play around with the locations where you clip them, but my shirt stayed tucked in all weekend while I was instructing at an SLS, and it looked really sharp.

I wouldn't go out of the house in uniform without them, always wear 4.

[Al Sayre]

Dave, have you noticed that the newer ones are made with much crappier materials?

I had one set that lasted about 4 yr WIWAS.  I've gone through 2 sets in the last year and a half.  The button tabs keep pulling out of the clasps and the clasps themselves seem to bend awfully easy.

[JayT]

I had from one when I first joined about four years ago, and they have held up through both bi montly CAP wear and weekly AFJROTC wear for three of those years.

[DrDave]

Regarding shirt stays --

Doesn't just tucking your shirt into your underwear do the same thing?

Works for me.
Dr. Dave

[MIKE]

Doesn't just tucking your shirt into your underwear do the same thing?

Ewwww.

[SARMedTech]

Doesn't just tucking your shirt into your underwear do the same thing?

Ewwww.

Ditto.

[Al Sayre]

Bet the dry cleaners really love the skid marks...

[Eagle400]

Doesn't just tucking your shirt into your underwear do the same thing?

That's gotta be awfully uncomfortable.  I would never do that.  Shirt stays are much more comfortable.    

[jimmydeanno]

No.  It does not do the same thing.  IF you tuck your shirt into your underwear and put your arms above your head, all of a sudden you look like some of those gangbangers...the shirt stays keep your shirt down and your socks up actively.  There is a huge difference.

[Eclipse]

Doesn't just tucking your shirt into your underwear do the same thing?

Ewwww.

Ditto.

Ick.  and no it doesn't.

Anything tucked, without something holding it down will eventually
ride up, especially in the back.  No so with the garters, you can go all day long at a pretty good activity level (like an encampment pack-out / graduation ) and your shirt will still be tight (with the occasional
"blow-out" if you don't get the  shirt in just right.

As to quality, I've found a fair disparity between manufacturers, but the single-tab style sold at NAVEx's seem to work pretty good, and the elastic lasts a long time.  The "y-type" sold at the old bookstore got stretched out pretty fast and I don't think held as smooth as 4 singles (two front, in line with the center
of the pockets, down the front, two rear, in line with the corners).

I've never tried those rubber retention belts, but they look uncomfortable.

[Eagle400]

I've never tried those rubber retention belts, but they look uncomfortable.

I have, and I don't recommend them.  They don't work very well and are indeed uncomfortable.  Every time you sit down, they ride up.  It's apparent they weren't tested when they were in the factory.

Shirt stays are the best way to go, in my opinion.  Especially the ones with the foot loops at the bottom.  Those are my favorite because it doesn't matter what length of sock you're wearing.  With the type that attach to your sock, you have to either wear the same length of sock all the time or constantly adjust the stays.         

[Hawk200]

I've never tried those rubber retention belts, but they look uncomfortable.

I've tried the most notable one, the "Hidden Tailor". It took a few times wearing it to get it to a position that would hold comfortably. Just above the hips seems about right.  The Hidden Tailor is a softer rubber that doesn't wrinkle apart.

I refuse to do any serious bending or lifting in blues, they weren't designed for that. If you're going to be doing that, then wear BDU's.

[SarDragon]

Doesn't just tucking your shirt into your underwear do the same thing?

Ewwww.

What he said.

When I was on the ROTC drill team, we safety-pinned handkerchiefs to the front and back tails to do the same thing but that was WAY uncomfortable.

As for shoddy construction, I haven't had these too long, so will have to wait and see. Wearing them once a week or less shouldn't be too hard on them.

[RiverAux]

Let me ask you this, for those wearing shirt stays, do you also wear them with civilian clothes?  I wear a shirt/trouser combination similar to the CAP blues for work regularly and don't seem to have my shirt tail coming out of my pants....

[Eeyore]

The point of the stays is more to keep the shirt tight in both the front and the back which gives it a cleaner look. They aren't really for keeping the shirt from coming completely un-tucked, that doesn't really happen unless you are doing something that most people wouldn't do in blues.

[SarDragon]

Let me ask you this, for those wearing shirt stays, do you also wear them with civilian clothes?  I wear a shirt/trouser combination similar to the CAP blues for work regularly and don't seem to have my shirt tail coming out of my pants....

Nebba hoppen, GI.

[jimmydeanno]

Let me ask you this, for those wearing shirt stays, do you also wear them with civilian clothes?  I wear a shirt/trouser combination similar to the CAP blues for work regularly and don't seem to have my shirt tail coming out of my pants....

are you kidding  they're lucky I get dressed every day for work, never mind shirt and trousers...

[SARMedTech]

Let me ask you this, for those wearing shirt stays, do you also wear them with civilian clothes?  I wear a shirt/trouser combination similar to the CAP blues for work regularly and don't seem to have my shirt tail coming out of my pants....

I believe the difference here is that in military uniforms, having a shirt come untucked, or not tucked in tight to the pants is not allowed, and though my knowledge of military uniform regulations is pretty basic, I do know Marines who have told me that they have been cited for not wearing their shirt stays and having their shirts go "baggy." The other point of this uniform item, as I understand it, is to keep one's socks from bagging around ones ankles. I have worked uniformed private security on two seperate occasions in my working life and have been required to wear shirt stays with both uniforms. I also have friends that work in uniform for Wackenhut security (whatever you may think of that organization) and they are required to wear them. The fact is that a baggy shirt or one that has come untucked can make an otherwise squared away uniform look like garbage. I have only had one bad experience with shirt stays involving the clip not being fastened tightly and sustained a mildly traumatic injury a part of my body that I would rather not have snapped with elastic. This is not a mistake I have made again. . I currently wear the white/blue CAP distinctive service uniform and wear shirt stays every time I wear the uniform which is twice a month for officers meetings. Its not really that big of a deal and once you get them adjusted properly, its easy to forget you are even wearing them.

[RiverAux]

How do shirt stays hold your socks up?  Do they have a garter belt attachment?

[jimmydeanno]

^They attach to the bottom of your shirt and the top of your socks.  The elastic in between pulls down on the shirt and up on the socks (Unless your using the typed described above with the loops on the bottom.)

[RiverAux]

Well, I could almost go along with the shirt attachments, but I'm not going to have straps running down my legs holding up my socks.  If my socks can't hold themselves up, I buy new socks. 

[floridacyclist]

Bet the dry cleaners really love the skid marks...

Folks wouldn't have that problem if they'd learn to wipe properly.

[stillamarine]

I also have friends that work in uniform for Wackenhut security (whatever you may think of that organization) and they are required to wear them.

I work for Wackenhut and have for a few years, never heard about having to wear shirt stays.  Granted we make our money on looking good and performing good, but you do not HAVE to wear shirt stays, I have not worn a pair since I left the Marine Corps.

I have only had one bad experience with shirt stays involving the clip not being fastened tightly and sustained a mildly traumatic injury a part of my body that I would rather not have snapped with elastic.

Wrap the stays around your leg, Go from the front of your shirt to the back of the sock and vice versa. That is the way Marines are taught in Boot and it keeps from any unfortunate accidents like you describe.

[ColonelJack]

Bet the dry cleaners really love the skid marks...

Folks wouldn't have that problem if they'd learn to wipe properly.

"Right now, germs with names you can't even pronounce are preparing to launch a devastating assault on your body that will leave you helpless in the defense of your country!"
-- Lt. Col. Bull Meechum, USMC (Robert Duvall), The Great Santini

Jack

[SarDragon]

Well, I could almost go along with the shirt attachments, but I'm not going to have straps running down my legs holding up my socks.  If my socks can't hold themselves up, I buy new socks. 

We have a paired function here - the socks hold the shirt down, and the shirt holds the socks up. Once you figre out where to attach them, you get used to them quickly. I wore them all weekend at an SLS class (teaching), and hardly noticed them.

[jimmydeanno]

Ok, for those of you who need a better visual as to the difference between gartered or not, here you go...left = no garter, right = gartered.

[Flying Pig]

Shirt stays rule....

[Eagle400]

Ok, for those of you who need a better visual as to the difference between gartered or not, here you go...left = no garter, right = gartered.

Yes, but in all fairness, the cadet on the left is wearing a shirt that is way too big and the cadet on the right is wearing a shirt that is way too small. 

[stillamarine]

Ok, for those of you who need a better visual as to the difference between gartered or not, here you go...left = no garter, right = gartered.

Yes, but in all fairness, the cadet on the left is wearing a shirt that is way too big and the cadet on the right is wearing a shirt that is way too small. 

I'll admit the one on the left is kinda big, but what makes you say the one on the right WAY to small? Looks like it fits perfect to me.

[SARMedTech]

Ok, for those of you who need a better visual as to the difference between gartered or not, here you go...left = no garter, right = gartered.

Yes, but in all fairness, the cadet on the left is wearing a shirt that is way too big and the cadet on the right is wearing a shirt that is way too small. 

I'll admit the one on the left is kinda big, but what makes you say the one on the right WAY to small? Looks like it fits perfect to me.

The other reason that the female cadets shirt looks improper and too large is that she is wearing a man's uniform shirt.

[SARMedTech]

Actually, Im assuming that the cadet with the ill-fitting shirt is female. The body type looks female but with some cadets, at some ages, it can be hard to tell.

[jimmydeanno]

^Or it could be that the male cadet everyone thinks is a female is wearing too large a man's shirt.  The shirt is too large because they don't make uniform shirts with a 10 1/2 inch neck for someone that is 4' 10"  Either way, shirt garters would help...

[SARMedTech]

^Or it could be that the male cadet everyone thinks is a female is wearing too large a man's shirt.  The shirt is too large because they don't make uniform shirts with a 10 1/2 inch neck for someone that is 4' 10"  Either way, shirt garters would help...

As would pressing the shirt.

[Eagle400]

Ok, for those of you who need a better visual as to the difference between gartered or not, here you go...left = no garter, right = gartered.

Yes, but in all fairness, the cadet on the left is wearing a shirt that is way too big and the cadet on the right is wearing a shirt that is way too small. 

I'll admit the one on the left is kinda big, but what makes you say the one on the right WAY to small? Looks like it fits perfect to me.

Look at the armpits.  Looks a little bit snug, don't you think?  And the epaulets should droop down slightly.  If that cadet tried to button the neck, he probably couldn't.

If you look at the cadet's shirt in comparison to the shirts the Marines are wearing, you'll see differences.  The shirts the marines are wearing fit comfortably and properly.   

[jb512]

V-Necks look silly/unfinished with a uniform with an open neck. We see them with BDUs, why not with the service uniform with an open collar. With a v-neck it looks like you ran out out of the house and forgot to finish getting dressed. Makes me cringe every time I see it. My biological father was in the USAF during the VietNam era and they had a trick of turning their crew neck t-shirts around backward under fatigues so they would be tight. Adopted father (read as Dad) did the same thing with his Sheriffs department uniforms for 37 years. In every EMS department or agency Ive been in so far, we have been required to wear visible crew neck t-shirts under an open collar and it was pounded in to me to do it as a young man to the extent that to this day, I wont wear an open collar without a visible t-shirt. Goes right along with not going out unshaven if Im not growing a beard. I hate wearing my blues now with an open neck. Makes me look like a tourist.

PS- How many of you actually wear shirt stays?

WIWAC was when the change was made from crew neck to v-neck.  The story I always heard was that some general's wife saw an airman with a nasty crew neck on under his shirt and had the general make the new rule...  not sure about the validity.

I wear shirt stays everytime I'm in blues.  I have the Y set with the stirrups so I only have to wear one pair.

[JCJ]

Ok, for those of you who need a better visual as to the difference between gartered or not, here you go...left = no garter, right = gartered.

Yes, but in all fairness, the cadet on the left is wearing a shirt that is way too big and the cadet on the right is wearing a shirt that is way too small. 

I'll admit the one on the left is kinda big, but what makes you say the one on the right WAY to small? Looks like it fits perfect to me.

Look at the armpits.  Looks a little bit snug, don't you think?  And the epaulets should droop down slightly.  If that cadet tried to button the neck, he probably couldn't.

If you look at the cadet's shirt in comparison to the shirts the Marines are wearing, you'll see differences.  The shirts the marines are wearing fit comfortably and properly.   

Back in the day, E-3 and below purchasing uniforms at USMC clothing sales had to have an E-5 or above certify the proper fit of the items purchased.  E-4 could purchase their own, but couldn't certify the purchases of junior enlisted.

[Flying Pig]

 ^ When was "back in the day"?

[Fifinella]

$.02 - Regardless of Saturday Night Fever, chest hair hanging out of your shirt is NOT sexy.  Besides, if you're wearing a flightsuit with a v-neck or wife-beater undershirt, it looks as though you may not have anything on underneath.  Most Cappers aren't Chippendales enough to pull off that look.    (Except Kach, of course.)

[O-Rex]

$.02 - Regardless of Saturday Night Fever, chest hair hanging out of your shirt is NOT sexy. 

........Most Cappers aren't Chippendales enough to pull off that look.

Ew, I can see it now: 39-1 addendums for regulation haircut, shave, and chest-waxing! 

Also, there's something to be said for a 'Manly Fred-Flintstone Physique.' 

[Grumpy]

V-Necks look silly/unfinished with a uniform with an open neck. We see them with BDUs, why not with the service uniform with an open collar. With a v-neck it looks like you ran out out of the house and forgot to finish getting dressed. Makes me cringe every time I see it. My biological father was in the USAF during the VietNam era and they had a trick of turning their crew neck t-shirts around backward under fatigues so they would be tight. Adopted father (read as Dad) did the same thing with his Sheriffs department uniforms for 37 years. In every EMS department or agency Ive been in so far, we have been required to wear visible crew neck t-shirts under an open collar and it was pounded in to me to do it as a young man to the extent that to this day, I wont wear an open collar without a visible t-shirt. Goes right along with not going out unshaven if Im not growing a beard. I hate wearing my blues now with an open neck. Makes me look like a tourist.

PS- How many of you actually wear shirt stays?

Well, my dad was career Navy, and I carry similar baggage as you. I have elected to discard some of it, though, and wear v-necks (albeit all year round) except when crew necks are mandated, or when safety issues suggest the additional protection.

Shirt stays, as in the elastic thingies that hook your shirt tail to your sox? I wear them with my aviator shirt combination.

_______________________________________________________________________________________
Is that why you talk with a high pitched voice when giving a Level I class?   

[sandman]

I do, every time I'm in service uniform.

Who cares what other organizations do? If people don't like the v neck shirt, then they can wear a tie. Or, join the Naval Sea Cadets Corps.

...or the CG Aux.

I agree, I can't stand the sight (or lack of sight) of v-necks with a uniform, it does look completely unfinished. My bias comes from over twenty years of wearing BDU's (Army and Navy) though. So is open collar without sight of an undershirt currently "GQ" in the civilian fashion world?

[SarDragon]

Well, my dad was career Navy, and I carry similar baggage as you. I have elected to discard some of it, though, and wear v-necks (albeit all year round) except when crew necks are mandated, or when safety issues suggest the additional protection.

Shirt stays, as in the elastic thingies that hook your shirt tail to your sox? I wear them with my aviator shirt combination.

_______________________________________________________________________________________
Is that why you talk with a high pitched voice when giving a Level I class?   

Well there, Mister Olde Guy, no. I didn't start wearing them until after the last class we taught together. However comma my chipmunkness has accompanied me all my life.

[Grumpy]

Well, my dad was career Navy, and I carry similar baggage as you. I have elected to discard some of it, though, and wear v-necks (albeit all year round) except when crew necks are mandated, or when safety issues suggest the additional protection.

Shirt stays, as in the elastic thingies that hook your shirt tail to your sox? I wear them with my aviator shirt combination.

_______________________________________________________________________________________
Is that why you talk with a high pitched voice when giving a Level I class?   

Well there, Mister Olde Guy, no. I didn't start wearing them until after the last class we taught together. However comma my chipmunkness has accompanied me all my life.

___________________________________________________________________________________
LOL

[MIKE]

I do, every time I'm in service uniform.

Who cares what other organizations do? If people don't like the v neck shirt, then they can wear a tie. Or, join the Naval Sea Cadets Corps.

...or the CG Aux.

The Aux is supposed to wear v necks in trops just like the gold side.

[sandman]

I do, every time I'm in service uniform.

Who cares what other organizations do? If people don't like the v neck shirt, then they can wear a tie. Or, join the Naval Sea Cadets Corps.

...or the CG Aux.

The Aux is supposed to wear v necks in trops just like the gold side.

Yep, you're right...got me on that one! (didn't RTFQ like I shoulda) Happens when one types too early in the AM (Vietnam time) and is tired!

[RogueLeader]

I just got some shirt stays and man, they make the uniform look a whole lot sharper.

[jimmydeanno]

^YEAH!  Congratulations!  It's like a whole different experience - when you first get your blues, you think to yourself, "wow, I look pretty good."  Then you get your shirt stays and your wife says, "wow, you look pretty good."

[Pylon]

So is open collar without sight of an undershirt currently "GQ" in the civilian fashion world?

I'd say so, yeah.   

[davedove]

So is open collar without sight of an undershirt currently "GQ" in the civilian fashion world?

I'd say so, yeah.   

Well, I don't normally wear an undershirt in my civvies, but to me a uniform just doesn't look complete without the neck of the undershirt peeking out.  I guess that's my Army training.

[Grumpy]

I agree.  A sharp uniform looks great with a WHITE t-shirt showing, but, you get these clowns who let the t-shirt either turn gray or let the collar fray and it looks terrible so the Air Force says don't let it show at all then you don't have the problem.

I for one don't like to see somebody's hairy chest hair coming out of the top of the shirt.  But then that's probably because the chest is the only place I have hair.   

[wingnut]

You Guys have a thread for TEE-SHIRTS

HAW HAW HAW

pick 39-1 apart

[AlphaSigOU]

You Guys have a thread for TEE-SHIRTS

HAW HAW HAW

pick 39-1 apart

What next... a thread for briefs vs. boxers? 

[LtCol White]

You Guys have a thread for TEE-SHIRTS

HAW HAW HAW

pick 39-1 apart

What next... a thread for briefs vs. boxers? 

Hmmmm...a poll....Boxers, Briefs, Thong, Diaper, Commando 

[davedove]

Hmmmm...a poll....Boxers, Briefs, Thong, Diaper, Commando 

Well, it can't be commando.  CAPM 39-1 says "Mandatory" or "All appropriate underwear will be worn" for all the uniforms, with one exception - the blue CAP Field Uniform.  Although it states that a t-shirt must be worn, it doesn't mention any other undergarments.  So, I guess if you want to go commando in that uniform it's authorized.