Goretex Insignia

[afgeo4]

Today I received yet another e-mail from our friends at Vanguard:

________________________________________________________________
Dear Mr. *****,

Thank you for your email.  The gortex insignia has not been received at this time, unfortunately, I do not have a date on when it is going to be in stock.  Please let me know if there is anything else that I can assist you with.

Sincerely,
Beth Maul
Customer Service
Civil Air Patrol
Vanguard
_______________________________________________________________

My personal comment: Meanwhile... U.S. Civil Air Patrol branch tapes, not yet properly authorized by NHQ are in production and being shipped to members in lieu of still authorized Civil Air Patrol branch tapes.

By monopolizing our uniform acquisition process Civil Air Patrol has assured its members being out of uniform... consistently.

[Psicorp]

Wow...I'm surprised by that, sir.   Okay, not really. 

[floridacyclist]

I bet they've made the IT badge for the Gore-tex parka...and that hasn't even been proposed yet.

[lordmonar]

Today I received yet another e-mail from our friends at Vanguard:

________________________________________________________________
Dear Mr. *****,

Thank you for your email.  The gortex insignia has not been received at this time, unfortunately, I do not have a date on when it is going to be in stock.  Please let me know if there is anything else that I can assist you with.

Sincerely,
Beth Maul
Customer Service
Civil Air Patrol
Vanguard
_______________________________________________________________

My personal comment: Meanwhile... U.S. Civil Air Patrol branch tapes, not yet properly authorized by NHQ are in production and being shipped to members in lieu of still authorized Civil Air Patrol branch tapes.

By monopolizing our uniform acquisition process Civil Air Patrol has assured its members being out of uniform... consistently.

The branch tapes are much easer to make.  They are simply typed into the embroitery machine and produced one off at a time.  Just like our name tapes.

The gortex rank acutally has to be manufacuted, stocked and stored.  There are 18 differrent slides that have to manufacuted.  It is not nearly as easy as adding U.S. to the branch tape.

[afgeo4]

Sure, but it still remains a fact that they're distributing unauthorized items people didn't ask for (orders submitted are for CIVIL AIR PATROL, sans U.S.) while not supplying authorized items people have been begging for half of winter.

[lordmonar]

Sure, but it still remains a fact that they're distributing unauthorized items people didn't ask for (orders submitted are for CIVIL AIR PATROL, sans U.S.) while not supplying authorized items people have been begging for half of winter.

The U.S. CAP branch tapes are authorised...and they are the only ones you can order at this time.  You don't have to wear them until 2010 but that does not mean you can still order the old ones....unless you go to some other vendor.

And again....we are talking about lead time.  It take zero time to produce branch tapes.  The gortex slide takes a little longer.

[Eclipse]

And it also depends on what kinds of machines they have versus what they are sending to the PAC-RIM.

It is amazing what some of those vendors can do in no time flat, even on things like enamel insignia.
30 Days from order to ship, and that's in smaller quantities...

If they are running the tapes in-house, this is likely a machine sitting, already setup, ready to go, whereas the gore-tex slide is a completely different setup.

I'm no apologist for Vanguard, but there are some practical realities to these things, too.  And since we are a small service with even smaller order numbers, that's life.

And they may be waiting until they get a better mass of orders.  Many people here would make you believe that people are dumping the M65 by the thousands.  In my circle, no one is going to buy a $150+ jacket when thy have a perfectly good one in the closet.

I only wear the thing 10 or 20 times total during the year, and rarely in the extreme environments purported to be the "norm" in CAP.

[Psicorp]

Sure, but it still remains a fact that they're distributing unauthorized items people didn't ask for (orders submitted are for CIVIL AIR PATROL, sans U.S.) while not supplying authorized items people have been begging for half of winter.

The U.S. CAP branch tapes are authorised...and they are the only ones you can order at this time.  You don't have to wear them until 2010 but that does not mean you can still order the old ones....unless you go to some other vendor.

And again....we are talking about lead time.  It take zero time to produce branch tapes.  The gortex slide takes a little longer.

Aren't those things basically cloth CAP cutouts with embroidered grade insignia below it?

[lordmonar]

Sure, but it still remains a fact that they're distributing unauthorized items people didn't ask for (orders submitted are for CIVIL AIR PATROL, sans U.S.) while not supplying authorized items people have been begging for half of winter.

The U.S. CAP branch tapes are authorised...and they are the only ones you can order at this time.  You don't have to wear them until 2010 but that does not mean you can still order the old ones....unless you go to some other vendor.

And again....we are talking about lead time.  It take zero time to produce branch tapes.  The Gortex slide takes a little longer.

Aren't those things basically cloth CAP cutouts with embroidered grade insignia below it?

Basically....it is not technically that hard....but here is the process.  A pattern is programmed into the loom.  It is set up and they run off a batch....of say 10K units.  Then they set up for the next insignia...the insignia then has to be folded and sewn into a loop and then packaged.

This all takes time.  It takes time to find a supplier, do the initial runs, Quality control check, final product approved and the production run to be started.  Then they have to be shipped, stocked, and then they are ready to be released.

Now....this is speculation...but maybe the hold up is that Vanguard got a shoddy production run.  Maybe there is a problem with their machine and they are waiting for parts.  Maybe National did not like the initial run and asked them to make changes.  There are a lot of factors involved here that can slow down the process.

Vanguard will be ready when they are ready.  It is as simple as that.  The U.S. Civil Air Patrol was easy because the use the same machine that they make the "HARRIS" or the "SMITH" name tapes.  The probably ran off a couple of hundred within days of NHQ telling them of the change. (if they do that at all...they may not keep any in stock and only produce them as they are ordered).

So....the production process for the Gortex Slide is much more complicated than the branch tapes...ergo the long lead time.

[SJFedor]

But as for the US Civil Air Patrol change, doesn't that little tidbit require USAF approval for AF style BDU's?

[lordmonar]

But as for the US Civil Air Patrol change, doesn't that little tidbit require USAF approval for AF style BDU's?

Yes...but not the subject of this question.  For the supposed idea that you can't order the branch tapes with out the u.s. on it...I suggest that you actually call Vanguard and tell them exactly what you want to say.  If you can make a name tape that says rumplestiltskin, I'm sure they can make one that say Civil Air Patrol.

[Eclipse]

as can other places ((*hint*))   

[LtCol White]

But as for the US Civil Air Patrol change, doesn't that little tidbit require USAF approval for AF style BDU's?

Yes...but not the subject of this question.  For the supposed idea that you can't order the branch tapes with out the u.s. on it...I suggest that you actually call Vanguard and tell them exactly what you want to say.  If you can make a name tape that says rumplestiltskin, I'm sure they can make one that say Civil Air Patrol.

But vanguard is going to only make what they were told. They're not stupid. If they were told not to make or sell CAP strips and only sell US CAP, then thats what they are going to do.

[lordmonar]

But as for the US Civil Air Patrol change, doesn't that little tidbit require USAF approval for AF style BDU's?

Yes...but not the subject of this question.  For the supposed idea that you can't order the branch tapes with out the u.s. on it...I suggest that you actually call Vanguard and tell them exactly what you want to say.  If you can make a name tape that says rumplestiltskin, I'm sure they can make one that say Civil Air Patrol.

But vanguard is going to only make what they were told. They're not stupid. If they were told not to make or sell CAP strips and only sell US CAP, then thats what they are going to do.

Vanguard will  make anything you pay them to make....or they think they can sell.  If you call them up and ask for "Civil Air Patrol" vice "U.S. Civil Air Patrol", I'm pretty sure the will make them.  They were told that the "standard" branch tape is now "U.S. Civil Air Patrol" and so if you order a branch tape that is what you get.  But if you order a Name tape with "Civil Air Patrol" then they will make it.  Vanguard does not care about our regulations they just want our money.

[LtCol White]

But as for the US Civil Air Patrol change, doesn't that little tidbit require USAF approval for AF style BDU's?

Yes...but not the subject of this question.  For the supposed idea that you can't order the branch tapes with out the u.s. on it...I suggest that you actually call Vanguard and tell them exactly what you want to say.  If you can make a name tape that says rumplestiltskin, I'm sure they can make one that say Civil Air Patrol.

But vanguard is going to only make what they were told. They're not stupid. If they were told not to make or sell CAP strips and only sell US CAP, then thats what they are going to do.

Vanguard will  make anything you pay them to make....or they think they can sell.  If you call them up and ask for "Civil Air Patrol" vice "U.S. Civil Air Patrol", I'm pretty sure the will make them.  They were told that the "standard" branch tape is now "U.S. Civil Air Patrol" and so if you order a branch tape that is what you get.  But if you order a Name tape with "Civil Air Patrol" then they will make it.  Vanguard does not care about our regulations they just want our money.

I beg to differ there. Try calling and see if they will make it for you. I rather doubt they will. If they have been told not to sell CAP tapes, they arent going to do it.

[JC004]

I beg to differ there. Try calling and see if they will make it for you. I rather doubt they will. If they have been told not to sell CAP tapes, they arent going to do it.

I wonder what they're going to do with what they had in stock.  Surely they aren't making these on-demand?  I wonder how they feel about all these changes.  Sure, new tapes will make them money but stuff like ditching wing patches...that had to hurt.

[Stonewall]

I hope they use a smaller font on the U.S. CIVIL AIR PATROL tape because I just sewed the regular CAP tape to my BDUs last night and there is barely a 1/2" of blue at each end.

As for the Goretex insignia, I think I'll just make my own.  Col. McConnell, the person that started the whole Goretex insignia thing was my wing commander and I saw his prototype.  He made his, I can make mine.

PS: I'm not saying he invented it, I'm quite certain hundreds of people thought about this idea, but he is the one that passed up through the uniform committee.

[JC004]

I hope they use a smaller font on the U.S. CIVIL AIR PATROL tape because I just sewed the regular CAP tape to my BDUs last night and there is barely a 1/2" of blue at each end.

It's gonna be Comic Sans.   

[Stonewall]

I doubt they took into consideration that the smaller the BDU the smaller the pockets.  For those that wear medium or small BDUs, their nametapes will go about an inch past the edge of the pocket.

[JC004]

I doubt they took into consideration that the smaller the BDU the smaller the pockets.  For those that wear medium or small BDUs, their nametapes will go about an inch past the edge of the pocket.

I saw here that it was mentioned at the meeting and apparently nobody cared.