Multiple awards of the NCSA ribbon for NESA

[tjhumphries]

When I went through NESA for Basic and Advance Ground Search and Rescue Schools in 2002 we were told that a CAP member is awarded an NCSA ribbon for attending NESA once and only once regardless of how many times you attend NESA as a student or as a staff member.

In January 2005 I asked for clarification on this hazy topic. (then) Major Joe Curry, CAP responded to my email as follows:

"According to CAPR 39-3 Award of CAP Medals, Ribbons, and Certificates,
d. ..."Each subsequent activity is represented by a bronze star affixed to the basic ribbon. "                                                                                                                                                                I asked the HQ Director of Member Services, the OPR for this regulation, to define "subsequent activities" since it is not defined in the text and was told that it refers to new events, not repeated attendance at the same event.  The answer offered at NESA is the correct one.  A member may be awarded the NCSA ribbon for attending NESA, and a clasp for each additional activity you attend (NBB, AETCFC, etc) but not be awarded additional clasps for returning to NESA."

As those of you who have attended National Blue Beret, Hawk Mountain, and other NCSAs multiple times will attest, those activities award you an additional NCSA ribbon for each time you attend-exactly the same way the encampment ribbon is awarded. To my knowledge NESA was the only NCSA that took this point of view on this topic.

I know other people have heard of this policy-I have seen it brought up from time-to-time. Does anyone know if it was ever changed?

I attended five NCSAs as a cadet but only wear three bronze star clasps because of this policy. Now that I am going back in as a senior member, I would really like to wear that fourth bronze star clasp.

[Eclipse]

You receive an NCSA ribbon the first time you participate in an NCSA.

You receive a clasp for each subsequent participation.

NESA is an NCSA.

I don't see where this is hazy, or how anyone can have a separate opinion, since that opinion would conflict with the regulations.

[lordmonar]

+1

Just like encampments.....if you got NESA five years in a row (you get the basic ribbon and four clasps).  If you go to two NESA sessons in the same year you get the ribbon and a bronze clasp.

[Chief2009]

Each graduation packet contains a Personnel Authorization for the NSCA ribbon.

Separate Personnel Authorizations = separate awards.

[tjhumphries]

That is actually what brought this issue up. When I completed my second NESA activity I received my graduation packet and it DID NOT have another authorization for the NCSA ribbon in it. When I asked why, the NESA staff told me that I had already received an NCSA Ribbon for NESA and that they do not authorize subsequent awards for attending NESA multiple times.

[Ed Bos]

When I went through NESA for Basic and Advance Ground Search and Rescue Schools in 2002 we were told that a CAP member is awarded an NCSA ribbon for attending NESA once and only once regardless of how many times you attend NESA as a student or as a staff member.

In January 2005 I asked for clarification on this hazy topic. (then) Major Joe Curry, CAP responded to my email as follows:

"According to CAPR 39-3 Award of CAP Medals, Ribbons, and Certificates,
d. ..."Each subsequent activity is represented by a bronze star affixed to the basic ribbon. "                                                                                                                                                                I asked the HQ Director of Member Services, the OPR for this regulation, to define "subsequent activities" since it is not defined in the text and was told that it refers to new events, not repeated attendance at the same event.  The answer offered at NESA is the correct one.  A member may be awarded the NCSA ribbon for attending NESA, and a clasp for each additional activity you attend (NBB, AETCFC, etc) but not be awarded additional clasps for returning to NESA."

As those of you who have attended National Blue Beret, Hawk Mountain, and other NCSAs multiple times will attest, those activities award you an additional NCSA ribbon for each time you attend-exactly the same way the encampment ribbon is awarded. To my knowledge NESA was the only NCSA that took this point of view on this topic.

I know other people have heard of this policy-I have seen it brought up from time-to-time. Does anyone know if it was ever changed?

I attended five NCSAs as a cadet but only wear three bronze star clasps because of this policy. Now that I am going back in as a senior member, I would really like to wear that fourth bronze star clasp.

I don't know who was working admin in 2002, but they steered you wrong. I wear a NCSA ribbon for each week of NESA I've attended. They're getting a little unruly, and I'm still relatively new there.

[Spaceman3750]

I got an authorization letter both in 2006 and again in 2010. That said, I don't wear the subsequent awards because it requires RG/CC approval and I really don't want to deal with that.

(Awarding of NCSA ribbons to seniors requires identification by the project officer AND region approval. I would cite but I'm on my tablet.)

[Ed Bos]

That is actually what brought this issue up. When I completed my second NESA activity I received my graduation packet and it DID NOT have another authorization for the NCSA ribbon in it. When I asked why, the NESA staff told me that I had already received an NCSA Ribbon for NESA and that they do not authorize subsequent awards for attending NESA multiple times.

I got an authorization letter both in 2006 and again in 2010. That said, I don't wear the subsequent awards because it requires RG/CC approval and I really don't want to deal with that.

(Awarding of NCSA ribbons to seniors requires identification by the project officer AND region approval. I would cite but I'm on my tablet.)

Like he said, I don't recall seeing NCSA Ribbon authorization letters, but certificates of participation/graduation as appropriate. Use that and an award request (CAPF 2A) to send up the chain (see CAPR 39-3, para 20.d, pp 12-13).

Does that answer your question?

[Eclipse]

^ That or a printout from eServices.

[tjhumphries]

Thanks for your input everyone.

So MAJ Bos, you are on NESA staff now and at least right now NCSA ribbons/devices are awarded for every NESA school you graduate from or serve on staff at, correct?

That's good enough for me.

Who is the approving authority for the NCSA ribbon for Cadet participants? I didn't go to any NCSAs as a Senior so I shouldn't need to submit it all the way to the Region Commander right?

[Spaceman3750]

I didn't go to any NCSAs as a Senior so I shouldn't need to submit it all the way to the Region Commander right?

I earned an NCSA ribbon as a cadet and continue to wear it as a senior. It's one of the few you get to keep (at least in my interpretation of the regs, which I haven't looked at in awhile).

[Has been]

Please post if I am wrong but a TRIANGULAR clasp is awarded for recieving an award for another time, a STAR is awarded for recieving a higher level of the award.

A silver triangular clasp would replace 5 bronz.

And you don't put the numbers from the Red Service ribbon on anything else.

[MIKE]

Please post if I am wrong but a TRIANGULAR clasp is awarded for recieving an award for another time, a STAR is awarded for recieving a higher level of the award.

A silver triangular clasp would replace 5 bronz.

Stars are worn on the NCSA ribbon instead of triangular clasps.  See CAPR 39-3.

[Chief2009]

So I emailed Susie Parker about my cadet who attended both sessions of NESA.

She said "Yes, they are two different courses and she does qualify for the ribbon and a bronze clasp."

[Ed Bos]

Who is the approving authority for the NCSA ribbon for Cadet participants? I didn't go to any NCSAs as a Senior so I shouldn't need to submit it all the way to the Region Commander right?

Well, first, I apologize for not responding sooner, been hectic at work...

In re-reading the awards reg you see that the NCSA ribbon paragraph states:

Section F Para 20-d. Cadet Specialty Activity Ribbon. Awarded to cadets and senior members who participate in the national cadet special activities listed below. NOTE: The senior member participants must be identified by the CAP project officer and approved by the member's region commander. Each subsequent activity is represented by a bronze star affixed to the basic ribbon. Cadets earning this ribbon may continue to wear the ribbon as a senior member.

But earlier in that section the authority to award is clearly the Wing Commander's to use or designate to lower echelon:

Section F: Para 18.   Authority to Award Ribbons.
a.   Region commanders award activity and service ribbons to members of the region staff and members of the region headquarters.
b.   Wing commanders award activity and service ribbons to members of their staffs and to members of units within their wings. Authority to award these activity and service ribbons may be delegated to group and squadron commanders at the discretion of the wing commander.

I think we can take this to mean that the Region Commander must approve Senior Member participation in NCSA's, but the approval to award the ribbon rests with the Wing Commander (or designee) for the member, senior or cadet.

With the right Wing supplement, a Squadron Commander might be able to be the approving authority for their subordinates.

Does anyone else have a different interpretation?

[lordmonar]

Not a different interpetation.....but maybe with or with out a wing supplement.....no one has ever given me a hard time for doing the 2a locally.

Does the wing CC really need to see 200 2a's for encampment ribbons or 30+ NCSA ribbons?

[Eclipse]

Once it says you were there in eServices, a Unit CC should be able to approve the ribbon or attachment, assuming an approval is even necessary.

I put these in the same "self-actualizing" catergory as PD levels, Yeager, encampments, etc. 

If you get a cert from NHQ that says you completed Yeager or Level III, you don't need an additional 2a for the decoration.

[JC004]

I really think the whole ribbon process has to be looked at (just like most of the regulations).  Make it simple, fast, and easy.  There's no reason an approval for an NCSA ribbon has to go ALL THE WAY UP to region.