The Grey Cap Thread

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Since we're losing the CSU, and the (so far) unspoken Word From The Top is that any colours except grey and white for the "aviator shirt" uniform is verboten, especially the colour that dare not speak it's name...

A very minimum change to said uniform would be what a lot of people have been clamouring for - a hat.  A baseball cap looks a bit goofy with it, even an authorised squadron one (and the ones from Vanguard are TCTDNSIN!).

My idea is to come up with a flight cap-type headdress in the safe, acceptable-to-the-brass grey.  I would say with TCTDNSIN piping but that might get the nervous Nellies in a twist.

After all, no way would the AF approve the flight cap for that uniform, even though it's already approved for the blue flight suit but not the nearly-identical utility suit, and that the AF tie is approved for the G/W.

This is a Swiss surplus item, but it could be a good template for a design of our own...or, take the Swiss insignia off and wear it as is.  With no insignia, it is not identifiable as a military hat, especially since this cut and colour are not worn by any U.S. uniformed service.

[Persona non grata]

Just use the USAF FLT cap as a template and change the color.  While your at it, have the same people tat make the USAF pants make them in a grey color.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Just use the USAF FLT cap as a template and change the color.  While your at it, have the same people tat make the USAF pants make them in a grey color.

I thought of that, but I doubt the AF would go for it.

[Hawk200]

Why is a hat so desperately needed for the corporate uniform? Seems like every week someone's posting an idea for a grey hat for the corporate uniform. Nothing is broken, what is the attempt trying to fix?

[PHall]

This is a solution looking for a problem. Is there a need for a hat with the aviator shirt uniform?
This particular uniform combination has been around for about 20 years and there hasn't been a need for a hat before.
So why do we need one now?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I personally know a lot of people wearing the G/W who say they feel odd being outside, uniformed, without a hat, especially when saluting/returning a salute.

I would stand the question on its head (pun intended):

What is wrong with having a hat?  It wouldn't be that much more out-of-pocket, since it likely wouldn't be as expensive as the USAF flight cap.

[EMT-83]

Since we're losing the CSU, and the (so far) unspoken Word From The Top is that any colours except grey and white for the "aviator shirt" uniform is verboten, especially the colour that dare not speak it's name...

You know something that we don't know?

[titanII]

Just use the USAF FLT cap as a template and change the color.  While your at it, have the same people tat make the USAF pants make them in a grey color.

IF it was determined that G/W's were in DIRE need of some form of headgear, then yes. This would be the best option (IMO). However, besides "members feeling odd" I don't see any reason to add a cover. Please continue to provide reasons, though. I love it when learning changes my opinion  .

[Майор Хаткевич]

Just use the USAF FLT cap as a template and change the color.  While your at it, have the same people tat make the USAF pants make them in a grey color.

IF it was determined that G/W's were in DIRE need of some form of headgear, then yes. This would be the best option (IMO). However, besides "members feeling odd" I don't see any reason to add a cover. Please continue to provide reasons, though. I love it when learning changes my opinion  .

Simply to give the uniform a uniform appearance. Even it a bit out against blues? Make a decent, ribbon allowed blazer? Etc.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Since we're losing the CSU, and the (so far) unspoken Word From The Top is that any colours except grey and white for the "aviator shirt" uniform is verboten, especially the colour that dare not speak it's name...

You know something that we don't know?

Just my being sarky in the aftermath of the CSU debacle...phasing out a popular uniform because of undocumented, unverifiable perceptions that the AF didn't like it, and then taking the illogical (to me) step of partially "greying" said uniform (if the bloody thing is being phased out anyway, why require changes to it?) and how our august leadership seem to be snakebitten by any shade of uniform other than white and grey, but especially any shade of blue potentially displeasing the AF, even though the AF does not have a copyright on all shades of blue.

Just my twisted humour...though in all seriousness I am surprised that a change hasn't been made to a grey blazer coat and grey tie.

TitanII: I'm not sure of my personal experience is of a persuasive nature to you, but whenever I have worn/seen uniforms, they have always included headgear of some sort.

As a Cub Scout, I wore the little beanie-type blue-and-gold cap.
As a Boy Scout, I wore both a garrison cap and a red beret.
Police officers have headgear for their uniforms, even if they're not always worn.
Firefighters have headgear for their dress uniforms.
Even US Power Squadrons have an authorised headgear.

What I am trying to get at is that the headgear would provide a sense of completion to the uniform.

Would making such a hypothetical headgear optional be more up your street?

[AirDX]

One more (IMHO) uneccessary uniform item to buy and keep track of.

1.  That type of hat looks kind of stupid if you have longer hair sticking out from under it (I don't, but many do).
2.  That style hat serves no purpose.  Doesn't shade your eyes, protect your head from the sun, etc.
3.  Thinking about occasions where I wear the greys, the only time I'd have the hat on is from my car to the door of the squadron/wing.  And back.  YMMV, but I think that's typical.  Does anyone spend prolonged periods outdoors in the white shirt?
4.  I'll just ditch the white shirt and go to the polo exclusively before I'll wear a hat that looks goofy.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I'll ask you too:

What if it were optional?

[titanII]

One more (IMHO) unnecessary uniform item to buy and keep track of.

agree

1.  That type of hat looks kind of stupid if you have longer hair sticking out from under it (I don't, but many do).

YES!!! it aggravates me soooo much when I see this, and because G/W doesn't fall under any grooming regs, you are likely to get your fair share of this situation.

2.  That style hat serves no purpose.  Doesn't shade your eyes, protect your head from the sun, etc.

well, it does protect (some of) your head if you have hair as short as mine 

I guess I agree that some form of headgear would give a sense of completion to the uniform. And I do cede that it would make G/W's more comparable to blues. If only we could make the hippies get haircuts 

Would making such a hypothetical headgear optional be more up your street?

I wouldn't want it to be optional because then we would have less of a "uniform" appearance- some with covers, some without. But to solve the grooming issue: mandatory for those who meet grooming standards, verboten for those that don't. Maybe?
But, it would just be better to K.I.S.S.

I guess I would make it mandatory for all, to keep it simple. It's not like it's in "AF-style uniform", so why should it have to follow Grooming standards.

[wuzafuzz]

A hat that doesn't shield my eyes isn't worth wearing, IMHO.  If it became required I would wear it, but I hope that doesn't happen.  A REAL hat shades your ears and neck!  I'll take one if these in grey:

Just kidding!

Not having a cap in the G/W uniform doesn't bug me.   As long as I can throw my CAP ball cap on if needed I'm happy.

[titanII]

Wuzafuzz, your post reminds me...
what about a grey campaign hat?

They're functional, they used to be standard in the Army (think WWI doughboy), and the style is still used by drill sergeants in the active military. 

Not really though... they'd stand out a lot from those in blues, and they're probably kind of maintenance-heavy like berets

[teesquared]

I'm with wuzafuz.  A grey one like he has shown, or no hat at all. Even a squadron ball cap would be better than an imitation flight cap (We had other nicknames for it in the AF).

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

TitanII...this is for the Civil Air Patrol, not the Royal Canadian Mounted Police!

I also thought of a black sidecap, but when you start mixing black and grey, some bad historical associations happen.

WRT expense...I'd hope to keep them around ten bucks a pop.

[coudano]

i'm a pretty big fan of "no headgear is prescribed", myself.
then again just about the only time i wear a hat (ever) is when i'm in a military style uniform.

or flying in a glider...

[MIKE]

I think there should be a return to the blazer nametag...  First it was gray epaulets, nametags and badges, then ribbons.  Now military style headgear?  The death of the CSU was your first clue.

[titanII]

TitanII...this is for the Civil Air Patrol, not the Royal Canadian Mounted Police!

lol I was (mostly) kidding about the campaign hat. And I don't think that a certain someone would appreciate the comparison to Mounties

 

[wuzafuzz]

Campaign hats are a pain the...head.  I had one as a cop and only wore it when working special events with lots of time in the sun.  Aspirin should be issued with those things because they are not comfortable.

Mine sits on a closet shelf these days.  It's one of the few souvenirs from my badge wearing days.  I have NEVER been tempted to wear it with my CAP BDU's.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I think there should be a return to the blazer nametag... 

Why do you believe that way?

Personally, I would like to see the death of the BLAZER.

First it was gray epaulets, nametags and badges, then ribbons. 

Before that, those CAP officers who had earned ribbons and couldn't/wouldn't wear the USAF uniform had absolutely no way to display them.

Now military style headgear?  The death of the CSU was your first clue.

If a fore-and-aft cap is automatically "military-style," there are a lot of Boy Scouts who have been paramilitary and didn't realise it.

Personally, I'm thinking more along the lines of Air America:

http://www.air-america.net/uni.htm

The only "clue" I got from the death of the CSU, in the absence of hard information, was a lot of rumour and innuendo ranging from "the USAF doesn't like it" (unproven) to the simple fact that it was linked to the former Generalissimo, no reason to kill a popular uniform.

But the CSU is gone.  One of the most inexplicable events I've witnessed in almost 18 years in CAP, but nothing to be done for it.

Mike, I'm not sure where you're going with this.  Do you not want those who can't/won't wear the USAF uniform (and I can and do) to not look even remotely "military?"

You're a Coast Guard Auxiliarist.  I used to be one too.  They are extremely blessed that their parent service actually likes and respects them enough to not beat them over the head about what uniforms they cannot wear.  We do not have that luxury.

[andysum15]

If you want a grey uniform just look at the Royal Air Force, Very smart and would be perfect. I would have to say I do believe anyone wearing military style uniform should meet the grooming standards otherwise why not just wear the polo shirt.
The blazer should certainly go.

[Spaceman3750]

The blazer should certainly go.

Why?

[wuzafuzz]

The blazer should certainly go.

Why?

Well, ya see, in low light conditions we can't risk being mistaken for realtors.   :angel:

I actually like the blazer combo.  It's a decent uniform option for formal occasions, and the only one for folks who don't wear the AF style uniform in a post-CSU world.  Unless of course they are relegated to non-uniform wear for dinners and such.

[Smithsonia]

^^^^^^^^^^^^
I believe the Blue Blazer with an nice orange ANSI 2 vest underneath is something to consider. That way we can dazzle our dinner mates with tales of exciting CAP adventures while being ready for missions.

All we need do is rip off our Blazer, kiss our wives and say "don't wait up I'll be late tonight, dear," and dash out the door to the applause of the guests.

By the way - Gray is the spelling of the color. Grey is the spelling for the racing hound.

[Sapper168]

Gray vs Grey....

There are two acceptable spellings. Gray is used primarily in the United States and other areas that use US English. Grey is used in Great Britain and areas that use UK English.

The only exceptions to these rules are:

1. Proper nouns such as a last name; Earl Grey and Zane Grey would not be spelled Gray and L.H. Gray must be always be spelled Gray.

2. Greyhound as in the dog breed.

3. Food irradiation (quantity of radiation energy absorbed by the food as it passes through the radiation field during processing). 1 Gray = 0.001 kGy = 1 joule of energy absorbed per kilogram of food irradiated.

When all else fails..

grAy is how it's spelled in America
grEy is how it's spelled in England

[Hawk200]

grAy is how it's spelled in America
grEy is how it's spelled in England

I like to use them interchangeably and really throw people off.

[titanII]

anyone wearing military style uniform should meet the grooming standards

Now there's a good idea

But the blazer might need to stay. The polo isn't really appropriate for formal occasions (banquet, etc.)

[wuzafuzz]

^^^^^^^^^^^^
I believe the Blue Blazer with an nice orange ANSI 2 vest underneath is something to consider. That way we can dazzle our dinner mates with tales of exciting CAP adventures while being ready for missions.

All we need do is rip off our Blazer, kiss our wives and say "don't wait up I'll be late tonight, dear," and dash out the door to the applause of the guests.

I'll take one orange vest with an "S" on the chest.   

Might look goofy with my gray cattlemen's hat though.  Perhaps an orange hat strap will tie them together.  Nah.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

But the blazer might need to stay. The polo isn't really appropriate for formal occasions (banquet, etc.)

Not if it's replaced by something like an airline pilot dress jacket...and, yes, I know you can't just walk into WalMart (I don't shop there anyway), Goodwill, Salvation Army, St Vincent's etc. and find one on the cheap.

CAN the plastic pocket protector and allow ribbons and/or miniature medals.

Or something like Air America wore...





It looks a heckuva lot better than the blazer, it looks aviation and it's in the "safe" colour of grey.

Nothing about the current G/W uniform would change except replacing the blazer.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

grAy is how it's spelled in America
grEy is how it's spelled in England

Only by custom, not by law.

The wider Anglosphere does not use Websterian spellings, which are quite inconsistent.

Canada takes kind of a middle road between UK/US spellings, but even countries that aren't part of the Commonwealth (ie Ireland) don't use Websterian spellings.

I use traditional Anglo spellings out of personal choice, and have ever since childhood.  It used to drive my high school English teachers up the wall.

So...you say gray, I say grey.

That said, I still wonder where CAP got its fixation with grey...it's not aviation related, it's not in our history...if anything, a CAP-distinctive uniform should be a variant on pinks and greens.

However, it isn't, and the powers that be say we can't have anything else, so I'm trying to provide ideas within the "grey" framework.

[titanII]

But the blazer might need to stay. The polo isn't really appropriate for formal occasions (banquet, etc.)

Not if it's replaced by something like an airline pilot dress jacket...and, yes, I know you can't just walk into WalMart (I don't shop there anyway), Goodwill, Salvation Army, St Vincent's etc. and find one on the cheap.

CAN the plastic pocket protector and allow ribbons and/or miniature medals.

Or something like Air America wore...





It looks a heckuva lot better than the blazer, it looks aviation and it's in the "safe" colour of grey.

Nothing about the current G/W uniform would change except replacing the blazer.

I agree, I like a gray aviation/military style jacket. I would like a variation of your top picture. Come to think of it, the jacket on the top looks somewhat like the old-style service dress (with the pleated pockets and curved flaps).

[Eclipse]

Gray vs Grey....

There are two acceptable spellings. Gray is used primarily in the United States and other areas that use US English. Grey is used in Great Britain and areas that use UK English.

The only exceptions to these rules are:

1. Proper nouns such as a last name; Earl Grey and Zane Grey would not be spelled Gray and L.H. Gray must be always be spelled Gray.

2. Greyhound as in the dog breed.

3. Food irradiation (quantity of radiation energy absorbed by the food as it passes through the radiation field during processing). 1 Gray = 0.001 kGy = 1 joule of energy absorbed per kilogram of food irradiated.

When all else fails..

grAy is how it's spelled in America
grEy is how it's spelled in England

Sorry, the is only one Gray:

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Erin Gray...one of my teenage crushes...I don't think I ever missed Buck Rogers.

TitanII, I think that the Air America model is something that most CAP members could at least agree is better than the status quo.

Finding a vendor could be a problem.

[Al Sayre]

I'm sure Vanguard would be happy to procure them for a nominal fee...

[Sapper168]

I'm sure Vanguard would be happy to procure them for a nominal fee...

... I Just spit coffee onto my keyboard .....

[Hawk200]

I'm sure Vanguard would be happy to procure them for a nominal fee...

... I Just spit coffee onto my keyboard .....

That's a waste of perfectly good coffee.

[indygreg]

Gray vs Grey....

There are two acceptable spellings. Gray is used primarily in the United States and other areas that use US English. Grey is used in Great Britain and areas that use UK English.

The only exceptions to these rules are:

1. Proper nouns such as a last name; Earl Grey and Zane Grey would not be spelled Gray and L.H. Gray must be always be spelled Gray.

2. Greyhound as in the dog breed.

3. Food irradiation (quantity of radiation energy absorbed by the food as it passes through the radiation field during processing). 1 Gray = 0.001 kGy = 1 joule of energy absorbed per kilogram of food irradiated.

When all else fails..

grAy is how it's spelled in America
grEy is how it's spelled in England

Sorry, the is only one Gray:

Wow!  Talk about fond childhood memories!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I'm sure Vanguard would be happy to procure them for a nominal fee...

Sir, I commend you on your rapier-sharp wit...using "Vanguard" and "nominal fee" in the same sentence.

I did find this, though, at www.tallyhouniforms.com:



This is black, but this one and another style are available in charcoal grey.

[Spaceman3750]

I'm sure Vanguard would be happy to procure them for a nominal fee...

Sir, I commend you on your rapier-sharp wit...using "Vanguard" and "nominal fee" in the same sentence.

I did find this, though, at www.tallyhouniforms.com:



This is black, but this one and another style are available in charcoal grey.

Please no...

[LGM30GMCC]

Oh my...General McPeak has been reincarnated!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I should have made clear that the sleeve striping is not necessarily an accoutrement that CAP would use!

[Al Sayre]

Grey would be OK I guess, but after you put your accoutrements on that black one with sleeve braid, you would probably have some issue with USN, USCG, USPHS, and NOAA. Welcome aboard Commander...

[titanII]

after you put your accoutrements on that black one with sleeve braid, you would probably have some issue with USN, USCG, USPHS, and NOAA. Welcome aboard Commander...

Not if people can count buttons  (USN jackes are double-breasted)
But I don't think Cyborg was ever suggesting black (too close to blue for the AF  )

[Al Sayre]

You'd be suprised how many enlisted sailors wouldn't recognize that at first glance, and that's probably why the USAF had problems with the CSU. 
"Blue coat with stuff on it, doesn't look quite right, but I'm not sure, so: 
"I'll salute so I don't get my but chewed"
"Maybe he's a foreign officer"
"Maybe he's some kind of Navy guy"
...

Most service members do not spend a lot of time interacting with other services enough to know what their uniforms really look like, especially dress uniforms, so anything that is vaguely similar will elicit a conditioned response.  There is a story about a fairly Senior Navy Chief who was assigned to a US Embassy, along with a Navy Captain who was to be the Naval Attache. Seems they both were to arrive on the same day on different flights.  Seems that the Chief had so much gold sleeve braid that the host country people who were at the airport to meet the Captain mistook him for the Captain, left the Captain stuck at the airport and spent the next two days wining and dining the Chief before the figured it out...

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

First off - NO SLEEVE BRAID.  I only used that photo because it was available.  These don't have epaulettes so my best guess is that the blazer-type nameplate (without the bloody awful pocket protector) would serve for rank ID.

Major Sayre, I know that realistically the charcoal-grey option would be the most "palatable" to most of the senior brass, but again black and even dark you-know-what could be used.  The cut is not like the AF and there would be no hard rank.

Your story about the Navy Chief just reinforces what a lot of our allies snicker about...that an E-4 can have more blingage than a general, admiral or air marshal in an allied service.

The "conditioned response" is the responsibility of the one doing the responding.  In this case it points back to the AF teaching recruits nothing about CAP.

Personally, I hate grey.  I can't see why CAP has embraced it (other than the "it's safe" factor) but since the brass hats don't seem to be willing to let us have anything else, I'm trying to work within that.

[Grumpy]

First off - NO SLEEVE BRAID.  I only used that photo because it was available.  These don't have epaulets so my best guess is that the blazer-type nameplate (without the bloody awful pocket protector) would serve for rank ID.

Major Sayre, I know that realistically the charcoal-grey option would be the most "palatable" to most of the senior brass, but again black and even dark you-know-what could be used.  The cut is not like the AF and there would be no hard rank.

Your story about the Navy Chief just reinforces what a lot of our allies snicker about...that an E-4 can have more blingage than a general, admiral or air marshal in an allied service.

The "conditioned response" is the responsibility of the one doing the responding.  In this case it points back to the AF teaching recruits nothing about CAP.

Personally, I hate grey.  I can't see why CAP has embraced it (other than the "it's safe" factor) but since the brass hats don't seem to be willing to let us have anything else, I'm trying to work within that.

I like the grey and blue combo myself.  That being said, do you think that they use this combo because so many other Federal Branches use it.   Might help keep the cost down buying from one supplyer.   I wore it when I was working the Federal Courts as a CSO.  Came in handy when I needed it for CAP  .

[Buzz]

This is a Swiss surplus item, but it could be a good template for a design of our own...

It looks like that they wear behind the counter at the local burger place.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

It was the only grey cap I could find, other than old USN ones from WWII, or surplus East German.





My personal choice would be the West Point garrison cap, but some would no doubt find that a bridge too far because it isn't grey.

[RiverAux]

This is a solution looking for a problem. Is there a need for a hat with the aviator shirt uniform?

Is there a need for a blue flight cap to be worn with the short-sleeve variant of the AF-style uniform?   Wearing a hat with a military uniform is just a custom and something as silly looking that has no real benefit as the blue flight cap would be a prime candidate for elimination.  The only caps in our inventory that are really useful are the patrol cap and ball caps.  The others are just for show. 

That being said, if we're going to wear hats with the AF-style, for consistency we should wear hats with CAP's corporate military-style uniforms, which the gray/white is. 

[ColonelJack]

River ...

When the McPeak AF uniforms came out in 1993 (or thereabouts), they didn't have headgear at all.  IIRC, Gen. McPeak was at the funeral services for former President Nixon and was the only member of the Joint Chiefs to not have any kind of headgear at all - noticeable, as much of the memorial was held outdoors.  McPeak felt apparently as you do; the hat is an anachronism.  But the outcry from the field was immediate and loud -- louder, even, than the officers' dislike for the sleeve-stripe rank insignia.  The headgear was returned post-haste, as I recall.

It is a custom, but apparently one that is still coveted by most, if not all, of the military.

Jack

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

And, as I said before, it adds a sense of completeness.

[titanII]

McPeak AF uniforms came out...

oooo cracking open the Pandora's Box that is the McPeak AF uniforms..

[ColonelJack]

McPeak AF uniforms came out...

oooo cracking open the Pandora's Box that is the McPeak AF uniforms..

Which, after a little tweaking by the next CSAF, we still wear.

Jack

[Hawk200]

River ...

When the McPeak AF uniforms came out in 1993 (or thereabouts), they didn't have headgear at all.  IIRC, Gen. McPeak was at the funeral services for former President Nixon and was the only member of the Joint Chiefs to not have any kind of headgear at all - noticeable, as much of the memorial was held outdoors.  McPeak felt apparently as you do; the hat is an anachronism.  But the outcry from the field was immediate and loud -- louder, even, than the officers' dislike for the sleeve-stripe rank insignia.  The headgear was returned post-haste, as I recall.

It is a custom, but apparently one that is still coveted by most, if not all, of the military.

Jack

That is incorrect. McPeak wanted to do away with headgear, but someone above him told him "No." What did happen is he did away with the service cap. At Nixon's funeral, he was the only staff member to be wearing a flight cap, when all the other branch representatives were wearing service caps.

Big writeup about it in everything from the Air Force Times to the local base newspaper. It wasn't a case of no headgear, it was a case of headgear that wasn't considered formal enough.

McPeak was a fighter jock that really didn't seem to think that uniforms should cater to anyone but aircrew. The first McPeak blues configuration only allowed a single badge, unless you were aircrew, then you got to wear two. He also didn't have US insignia on the coat. Fogleman was the one to bring back just about everything that airman wanted back.

[ColonelJack]

Thank you, Hawk.  I stand corrected.

Tricky thing, memory ... especially when it's full of more holes than Swiss cheese.

Appreciate it!

As an aside, if I'd have been General Fogelman, the only thing I would have kept from the McPeak idea of haute couture would have been the redesgined general officer's epaulet sleeves.  I thought they looked rather cool, with the silver along the edges and the stars in the middle.  Other than that, we should've gone back to the four-pocket service coat.  In my never-to-be-humble opinion, of course.

Jack

[titanII]

we should've gone back to the four-pocket service coat

I agree 100% with that. Four-pocket looks waaaay more military, IMO. It could have used an updating of the fabric, pocket shape, etc. to make it look a bit more modern. (my opinion again) But it would have been miles better than the current service coat, which is basically a suit jacket.

[Hawk200]

Tricky thing, memory ... especially when it's full of more holes than Swiss cheese.

Actually, your memory was probably perfectly correct in a manner. I knew a couple airman that got their butts chewed for not wearing headgear. Their reply was "McPeak got rid of headgear!" Didn't hold up long for them when the challenge was "Let's see the paperwork." Some folks jumped the gun without a formal written heads up. Unfortunately, some people in the chain of command actually put out that headgear had been eliminated, which didn't help matters.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I don't know of any AF or CAP personnel who have worn both styles (four pocket "Tony Nelson" and McPeak/Fogleman) that prefer the current cut.  I certainly don't.

If CAP adopts a grey service coat, like the Air America one, I would hope it would be four-pocket.

Maybe something like this...

[Hawk200]

I don't know of any AF or CAP personnel who have worn both styles (four pocket "Tony Nelson" and McPeak/Fogleman) that prefer the current cut.  I certainly don't.

I've worn both. I actually never wore the McPeak style until after I'd separated, the phaseout date was close enough to my AD separation date that I didn't need it. I did have to get one for CAP. I preferred the old four pocket.

[Spaceman3750]

I don't know of any AF or CAP personnel who have worn both styles (four pocket "Tony Nelson" and McPeak/Fogleman) that prefer the current cut.  I certainly don't.

If CAP adopts a grey service coat, like the Air America one, I would hope it would be four-pocket.

Maybe something like this...

Again, please no... Just let me have my shirt with no jacket and be done with it. If you need something more formal just wear the blazer combo.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I thought I had mentioned that I loathe the blazer...and I know a lot of other CAP members who do as well.

[vento]

I don't know of any AF or CAP personnel who have worn both styles (four pocket "Tony Nelson" and McPeak/Fogleman) that prefer the current cut.  I certainly don't.

If CAP adopts a grey service coat, like the Air America one, I would hope it would be four-pocket.

Maybe something like this...

That uniform is not bad when it is worn by a model in perfect shape. I doubt it will look the same if it is worn by our fat and/or fuzzy members. Picture a gentleman with a pony tail (or just longer hair) in that uniform vs the same gentleman with pony tail in the white and grey without headgear and/or 4 pocket jacket.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Again...my thinking is that it would be optional...

It can't look any worse on the types you've mentioned than the Realtor blazer coat.

[AngelWings]

 Is there a need for a grey cap? Consider yourselves lucky to not need to wear a piece of clothe that sticks up in the air and catches wind like a sail and blow off your head, or falls off your head if you bend over. It is a piece of junk. And those service caps are bulky and a pain to carry around from what I heard.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Is there a need for a grey cap? Consider yourselves lucky to not need to wear a piece of clothe that sticks up in the air and catches wind like a sail and blow off your head, or falls off your head if you bend over. It is a piece of junk.

An opinion not shared by everyone.

And those service caps are bulky and a pain to carry around from what I heard.

When did I suggest those?

[ColonelJack]

Gee, I dunno ... I kinda like the service cap.

Jack

[AngelWings]

Is there a need for a grey cap? Consider yourselves lucky to not need to wear a piece of clothe that sticks up in the air and catches wind like a sail and blow off your head, or falls off your head if you bend over. It is a piece of junk.

An opinion not shared by everyone.

And those service caps are bulky and a pain to carry around from what I heard.

When did I suggest those?

I wasn't replying to you specifically. I hate the hats. I remember when I was at a squadron meeting and the wind blew the hat into a fence right next to a runway and was starting to move up. I grabbed it before it flew onto the runway. It is useless and doesn't even look that spectacular.