What are the chances of this being adopted at NB?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

This has been part of suggestions in the past for a new corporate uniform.

However, in all seriousness, what are the chances of modification of the aviator grey/white to:

Change the white shirt out for a Van Heusen, light-blue airline type shirt...readily available online in both long and short-sleeve, male and female cut.



Allow optional grey BDU trousers.

Allow black civilian pilot's sweater, worn with CSU brushed-silver "Civil Air Patrol" nameplate.



(I think the guy in the photo is wearing grey trousers!)

Light blue beret with flight cap insignia (I know some think berets suck, but I'm just throwing it at the wall hoping it will stick, and the USAF Combat Weather types already have dibs on grey, the Army uses black, etc.).  Even the Boy Scouts wear berets (red)!  And yes, I know it looks like the UN.



All these are widely available on the open market, are civilian issue, have zero USAF content and are minimum-change.

Or are we so gun-shy of anything but the status quo that only the status quo has a chance?

[AirDX]

How about a moratorium on uniform changes while we come up with a comprehensive policy and system?

[MIKE]

Snowballs chance in hell.  Give it a rest Cyborg, seriously.

[SarDragon]

However, in all seriousness, what are the chances of modification of the aviator grey/white to:

Change the white shirt out for a Van Heusen, light-blue airline type shirt...readily available online in both long and short-sleeve, male and female cut.

My white shirts are Van Heusen, too. The Aviator variant. They come in long and short sleeve versions, and cut for both guys and gals. As for availability, go to the pilot supply shop at your local GA airport, and they frequently have them. They are also available online from the major pilot supply houses. In my limited experience, the white ones are easier to get than the blue ones.

The only difference in the whole business is color.

Moving right along...

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Snowballs chance in hell.  Give it a rest Cyborg, seriously.

Point taken, Mike, but I would like to know why you give it a snowball's chance in hell?

[SARDOC]

Point taken, Mike, but I would like to know why you give it a snowball's chance in hell?

Yeah...really?  Because I think it's even less than that

[DC]

Why the beret? They are hot, tend to look ridiculous unless you spend hours shaping them, are are perhaps the most impractical uniform headwear ever devised.

Or are we so gun-shy of anything but the status quo that only the status quo has a chance?

Or maybe there is nothing seriously wrong with the status quo to motivate a change. Changing for the sake of change is a waste of time and money. Frankly, I've enjoyed not having to fart around with constant uniform changes for the last couple years.

I would support an upgrade to ABUs from BDUs, for consistency with the Air Force, but that's about it. The USAF style service and corporate uniforms work fine as is.

[titanII]

no berets!!! their only function besides giving an odd tan line on your forehead is looking good. They are not practical items of headwear, less practical than the flight cap.

[PA Guy]

Considering the way many seniors currently their uniforms throwing a beret into the mix defies description.  Many of those who wear them on a regular basis (Army) can't get it right.  Talk about a useless piece of headgear!!

As for the proposed changes being adopted?  Zip, zero, not a chance, ain't gonna happen.  Leave it alone.

[Nilsog]

Lets just ditch the weight and grooming requirements and all wear the same thing...

*coughcough* Did somebody say something?

[Hawk200]

no berets!!! their only function besides giving an odd tan line on your forehead is looking good. They are not practical items of headwear, less practical than the flight cap.

I'll agree on the impractical. In defense of the flight cap, it's pretty low key, and doesn't take up the kind of space that anything else does, and it's not hard to keep it clean if you pay even the smallest amount of attention.

Many of those who wear them on a regular basis (Army) can't get it right.  Talk about a useless piece of headgear!!

I do it right, because I refuse to wear it jacked up. My issue is that I hate taking the time to do it. It's annoying. You can throw a PC on one handed, and it looks fine. Can't do that with the beanie.

Berets were "cool" when I was in the first few years. Kinda got over it. Then, went Army, and had to actually wear one. The love is gone.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Thank you for all your input, it's what I was asking for.

But for those who say "no chance," I ask "why?"

And for those shooting spitballs at the beret...I only used it because I couldn't find a grey flight cap online, except for old East German and even older USN...sorry if I offended...even though most of our allies have done quite well with them...



...not to mention I was trying to find something that the USAF didn't use.

Mike - feel free to lock.

[Hawk200]

Those of us "shooting spitballs at the beret" have experience with it. Due to that experience, we don't care for it. It's an item that is intended for appearance, not for practical use. It may look "cool", but it doesn't keep the sun off, it's hot in the summer, it's not going to keep your head warm in the winter, and it takes some work to be worn properly and kept clean.

Second, the gray/whites are not composed of anything approaching mil spec as far as components go, and there is a lack of standardization as those components. Throwing a beret at that ensemble isn't doing anyone any favors. It's not needed, it doesn't work, and could possibly get us lumped in with all the posers on the internet wearing a beret with everything from Hawaiian shirts to their pajamas.

Third, I've seen a number of people that present the appearance of thinking the following: "The Air Force has to allow us this, because it's nothing like anything of theirs. It's not like anything of theirs, because we say so, so they should let us wear it." The circular reasoning is a fail, and will not endear us to Mother Blue.

We don't need more uniforms right now. For us, it's only gonna work if the new uniform is put out, and a hard phase out date for the old one is enforced.

The CSU, to me, still looks like a case of "better to ask forgiveness than permission," and almost seemed as if there were enough of them out there, it could be justified with "Well, everyone is wearing it, so the Air Force has to allow it." Didn't seem to work. As a caveat, that's my opinion, and may or may not reflect views of the management.

There's a lot of stuff out there that we just don't need. Much of it has the appearance of "Everyone should get a cookie, whether you earned it or not!" Let's eliminate that stuff, get our appearance to something consistant, and then maybe consider awards that reflect true persistence, and not just attendance.

[JC004]

I thought you were serious until I saw the UN beret.

What is wrong with one of these?

[MSG Mac]

I thought you were serious until I saw the UN beret.

What is wrong with one of these?

When did Ted Geisel (Dr Suess) come back from the dead  as a hat designer??

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Those of us "shooting spitballs at the beret" have experience with it. Due to that experience, we don't care for it. It's an item that is intended for appearance, not for practical use. It may look "cool", but it doesn't keep the sun off, it's hot in the summer, it's not going to keep your head warm in the winter, and it takes some work to be worn properly and kept clean.

It was just a suggestion.  It was more of an afterthought when I couldn't find any suitable grey headgear.

Third, I've seen a number of people that present the appearance of thinking the following: "The Air Force has to allow us this, because it's nothing like anything of theirs. It's not like anything of theirs, because we say so, so they should let us wear it." The circular reasoning is a fail, and will not endear us to Mother Blue.

It was just a suggestion...I never said the AF had to let us wear anything I suggested, but the reason I emphasised that none of it was AF issue is because of the fact that they do have control over anything regarding wear of their uniform.  I think a big part of the problem some had with the CSU was that it did use AF uniform items: rank slides, hard rank and AF trousers.

A big question I have is, and not limited to uniforms, is "what would endear us to Mother Blue?"  Over the past 18 years that I have been in CAP, I have seen the attitude from many individual AF members go from "thanks for what you do" to "bunch of wannabes trolling for salutes" to "who the heck are they?"

I don't believe that improper wear of the AF uniform is endearing to Mother Blue, for good reason.  I was not privy (thank God) to the politics behind the way the CSU came out, but I know that a lot of people liked it precisely because it wasn't the colourless grey and white and didn't look like a Realtor's (no offence to Realtors) blazer.

We don't need more uniforms right now. For us, it's only gonna work if the new uniform is put out, and a hard phase out date for the old one is enforced.

I'm not sure what you mean by the "new" and "old" uniform in this context.  If you mean the CSU, even though I have problems with the way that was mishandled, I'm sure not going to disobey orders and wear mine past the phase-out date.

My suggestions were not intended to be "another uniform"...rather, a modification to an existing uniform.  Swap one item (white shirt for blue).  Everything else remains as is, except to allow a pullover sweater.

The CSU, to me, still looks like a case of "better to ask forgiveness than permission," and almost seemed as if there were enough of them out there, it could be justified with "Well, everyone is wearing it, so the Air Force has to allow it." Didn't seem to work. As a caveat, that's my opinion, and may or may not reflect views of the management.

Again, I don't know, beyond what has been said on CT, about how the CSU was introduced, other than the one who introduced it purportedly showed up at a meeting of AF brass wearing it and (understandably) gobsmacked them with it, which they were (understandably) irritated about.  I also don't know exactly why it's been canned, and probably never will.

There's a lot of stuff out there that we just don't need. Much of it has the appearance of "Everyone should get a cookie, whether you earned it or not!" Let's eliminate that stuff, get our appearance to something consistant, and then maybe consider awards that reflect true persistence, and not just attendance.

I didn't suggest any awards or additional blingage...just a blue shirt and dark blue/black pullover sweater, and the blue beret.

[davedove]

I thought you were serious until I saw the UN beret.

What is wrong with one of these?

Only if you make it corporate grey and put the CAP prop symbol in the center.

[RADIOMAN015]

I like the idea of the blue shirt.  However, we do need to get some red in there somewhere.  Since our colors are red, white, & blue.    Maybe the rank sleeves could be red, with CAP in white and the rank in the appropriate color.

HOWEVER, I tend to agree with others that there's other problems in CAP that need to be solved first and having everyone (at least adults) going into this type of uniform would be a big expense.  Most people don't need any more expenses at this time

RM   

[sneakers]

CAP is already knee-deep with too many variations of uniforms to implement this, regardless of whether it is a good idea.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I like the idea of the blue shirt.  However, we do need to get some red in there somewhere.  Since our colors are red, white, & blue.    Maybe the rank sleeves could be red, with CAP in white and the rank in the appropriate color.
RM

What is your thing with red epaulettes?

Were you in during the berry boards era?