Blue Van Heusen Aviator Shirt and Accessories

[RVT]

I made one proposal on this subject: exchanging the white shirt for blue on the G/W uniforms, and standardising the grey trousers, which would comply with a mandate from General Courter.The blue VH shirt is $19.95 average on most pilot shop websites.

The only problem here is that it is a single source item, only one company makes it.   Anything similar made by another company would most likely be a slightly different shade of blue.  If you say "Blue VanHeusen shirt and grey Dickies pants or similar"  you get people really pushing the limit of what qualifies as similar.

What would probably happen is that it would be authorized as an additional item.  You would probably still need to have the white shirt for use with the Blazer uniform.  But for those who are kept out of the USAF uniforms I can see a place for both, with the white shirt being considered more formal.

[RADIOMAN015]

Your proposals seem to want to add costs for those who choose to wear the non AF type uniforms by adding hats, coats, etc, etc, etc,. 

And your proposals seem to want to add costs for those who choose to wear the AF style uniforms, and to remove the affiliation of CAP with USAF.

As you and most others see, the "cost factor" is really a pretty high factor in making ANY uniform changes.  I agree with you that a senior member that has invested a significant amount in AF type uniforms surely wouldn't be happy with moving to a new all senior member required uniform.  Likewise, those of us that choose the white/grey's & blue BDU's, (and those lovely golf shirts short/long sleeves) for cost or other reasons likely also have no real interest in more costs for uniforms.  So this is a dilemma  

Also when you are dealing with typical consumer manufacturers/retailers IF a particular color/style of pants or shirts isn't selling it's going to be stopped from production.  Also what happens with colors is some are taken out of production for a few years and than reintroduced as a different name, with either the same dye components or a slight change.  So consistently wise one is better to go with very dark colors such as black or blue versus lighter colors.  I think the medium grey pants are problematic for the organization as far as consistency goes.
RM

[RVT]

So consistently wise one is better to go with very dark colors such as black or blue versus lighter colors.  I think the medium grey pants are problematic for the organization as far as consistency goes.
RM

So where does "bright red" fit into this?

[RADIOMAN015]

So consistently wise one is better to go with very dark colors such as black or blue versus lighter colors.  I think the medium grey pants are problematic for the organization as far as consistency goes.
RM

So where does "bright red" fit into this?

In low light/distance review grey is very difficult to differentiate on a blue type uniform (personally I don't think it meets the AF Regulation/Policy).  A bright red is more distinguishable.   As you know we even got in trouble with the AF for trying to use the AF blue pants with the white aviator shirt (what if you just changed the sliders to bright red and the name tag to red background?).

As with any uniform changes perhaps it should be an open ended questions to the AF as to what is acceptable to them before any tinkering is considered.  An educated guess is that the AF is more interested in the "status quo" of uniforms than doing the staff work to change anything at this point, BUT I could be wrong.   Why spend many hours of volunteers uncompensated efforts without first getting the AF view on the range of acceptability   BTW those blue AF pants are around $36.00 at the BX.
RM   

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The "low-light" bit in AFI 10-2701 is worded so vaguely it can mean almost anything.

The German Bundesheer (army) uniforms are...white and grey, as are the duty uniforms at West Point and many European army uniforms.



Virtually every air force in the world uses some combination of blue or grey, to say nothing of civilian airlines.

Nothing is original, and RM's "red" fixation would only serve to confuse us with organisations like the Salvation Army.



Until the AF clarifies the "low-light" clause, there will continue to be hand-wringing among CAP.

They need to tell us exactly what we can and cannot wear.

If the only thing they will accept as "distinctive" are grey and white, that needs to be spelt out.

[arajca]

They also need to clarify "at a distance" means. 10 feet? 20 feet? 50 feet? 2 miles?

[SarDragon]

You forgot Low Earth Orbit!

[RVT]

The "low-light" bit in AFI 10-2701 is worded so vaguely it can mean almost anything.

The German Bundesheer (army) uniforms are...white and grey, as are the duty uniforms at West Point and many European army uniforms.

Adopt this as the new CSU.  It can be worn over the existing grey/white and looks significantly better than the McPeak jacket.  All you need is the coat (a hat if you like) use the rest of the uniform as it presently exists.

[wuzafuzz]

So consistently wise one is better to go with very dark colors such as black or blue versus lighter colors.  I think the medium grey pants are problematic for the organization as far as consistency goes.
RM

So where does "bright red" fit into this?

In low light/distance review grey is very difficult to differentiate on a blue type uniform (personally I don't think it meets the AF Regulation/Policy).  A bright red is more distinguishable.   As you know we even got in trouble with the AF for trying to use the AF blue pants with the white aviator shirt (what if you just changed the sliders to bright red and the name tag to red background?).

As with any uniform changes perhaps it should be an open ended questions to the AF as to what is acceptable to them before any tinkering is considered.  An educated guess is that the AF is more interested in the "status quo" of uniforms than doing the staff work to change anything at this point, BUT I could be wrong.   Why spend many hours of volunteers uncompensated efforts without first getting the AF view on the range of acceptability   BTW those blue AF pants are around $36.00 at the BX.
RM   

Bright red sure does stand out against blue...
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/plaaf-uniforms.htm
Something tells me CAP won't be going there.

[Major Carrales]

Seriously...you want us to wear Bundesheer uniforms?  That is ridiculous.  From wearing the uniform of our nation's Air Force to wearing the uniform of a foreign power?  This thread has officially jumped the shark!

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Seriously...you want us to wear Bundesheer uniforms?  That is ridiculous.  From wearing the uniform of our nation's Air Force to wearing the uniform of a foreign power?  This thread has officially jumped the shark!

I'm not the one who jumped it, Major.

The German tunic was for illustrative purposes only and I am not proposing adoption of that.

Only the blue aviator shirt and standardised grey trousers.  Period.

Mike, if you want to lock this thread before it gets any worse, please feel free.  I didn't intend it to get nuts.

[Major Carrales]

Seriously...you want us to wear Bundesheer uniforms?  That is ridiculous.  From wearing the uniform of our nation's Air Force to wearing the uniform of a foreign power?  This thread has officially jumped the shark!

I'm not the one who jumped it, Major.

The German tunic was for illustrative purposes only and I am not proposing adoption of that.

Only the blue aviator shirt and standardised grey trousers.  Period.

Mike, if you want to lock this thread before it gets any worse, please feel free.  I didn't intend it to get nuts.

Understood, Capt.  Keep in mind, posting such items basically kills a thread.  If we went to a gray tunic like that...the first comparison would not be the Bundeswehr, but rather their WWII counterparts.  It would bring ridicule on CAP.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I don't ever see a tunic like that being adopted...for the reasons that it would be too "military" looking.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Personally I think the old style AF jacket be adopted with blue pants to match. It would be perfect. NO ONE in USAF is still wearing it, it is distinctive enough that no one could call low light regulations against it. The four pocket service jacket is the one I am talking about. It would be perfect, and I would even say let prior service wear their badges and awards on it as well. Keep the gray on it, and it would almost be as if nothing changed from our old uniforms. Heck, even go so far as to put all of CAP SMs in it as well. That would take care of all of the uniform problems for the service uniforms, looks good, is distinctive enough, and fulfills all needed CAP situations.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^Except that it's no longer in production, and used ones are getting harder and harder to find.

I liked that uniform better.  Mine is still hanging in my closet.

But where are these uniforms going to come from?

[manfredvonrichthofen]

^^Except that it's no longer in production, and used ones are getting harder and harder to find.

I liked that uniform better.  Mine is still hanging in my closet.

But where are these uniforms going to come from?

Simple, the Army still uses the same cut for the blues, all that needs edited is the epaulet. Just run blue through the machines, and you are good to go.

[Major Carrales]

^^Except that it's no longer in production, and used ones are getting harder and harder to find.

I liked that uniform better.  Mine is still hanging in my closet.

But where are these uniforms going to come from?

Simple, the Army still uses the same cut for the blues, all that needs edited is the epaulet. Just run blue through the machines, and you are good to go.

Factories cannot be so easily retooled.

[RVT]

Simple, the Army still uses the same cut for the blues, all that needs edited is the epaulet. Just run blue through the machines, and you are good to go.

Isn't there a moratorium on uniform changes until nine months after the current CSU disappears in ALL of its forms?  Theres going to be no corporate equivalent to service dress blue at all for at least a year.

And after the financial loss that *someone* took on the unsold CSU coats its going to be a hard sell before anything at all gets adopted.

And THAT would be if there was any consensus on what the membership wants - and I don't see it.

[arajca]

Personally I think the old style AF jacket be adopted with blue pants to match. It would be perfect. NO ONE in USAF is still wearing it, it is distinctive enough that no one could call low light regulations against it. The four pocket service jacket is the one I am talking about. It would be perfect, and I would even say let prior service wear their badges and awards on it as well. Keep the gray on it, and it would almost be as if nothing changed from our old uniforms. Heck, even go so far as to put all of CAP SMs in it as well. That would take care of all of the uniform problems for the service uniforms, looks good, is distinctive enough, and fulfills all needed CAP situations.

If you go with a darker blue, say navy, it's available at many police and fire uniform shops now. Change the buttons to what's on the CSU and there you have it. It could also help prevent the AF from getting it's undies in a bunch since it's not using the AF blue fabric. Plus, it's less expensive than the CSU coat or AF service dress coat.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

No matter what we do, there are going to be those in the USAF getting their undies in a bunch.