Making up drill commands

[nesagsar]

Pimp Step March
Change Position March
Forward Go
Chillax
Breach and Clear
Forward to the rear with a slight hesitation change step March

Good times. Illinois Wing Summer Encampment 2004 Comm/Sec Flight.

[♠SARKID♠]

Pimp Step March
Change Position March
Forward Go
Chillax
Breach and Clear
Forward to the rear with a slight hesitation change step March

Good times. Illinois Wing Summer Encampment 2004 Comm/Sec Flight.

Haha, breach and clear....

I prefer the "stacked" commands - Right left left about right about left left left FACE!

[nesagsar]

Breach and clear was a cool command. On the command of execution the flight would double time to the basic flight ahead of us and try to break in to thier formation. If we failed that we would steal the element leaders covers.

Good times.

[davedove]

Pimp Step March
Change Position March
Forward Go
Chillax
Breach and Clear
Forward to the rear with a slight hesitation change step March

Good times. Illinois Wing Summer Encampment 2004 Comm/Sec Flight.

I kind of like Pimp Step March.  Although it would look silly if only one person was doing it, it would look really cool with a several people doing it in step.

[chimera388]

Tank formation, harch!
(to return)
STRYKER formation, harch!

[dwb]

Comm/Sec Flight.

What's a Comm/Sec Flight?  Is it anything like COMSEC?

[nesagsar]

Communications / Security

We ran the radios, issued radios to other cadet leaders, attended ROA classes, performed support staff functions, ran the firewatch base, managed the sergeant of the guard, trained firewatch patrols, managed cadets in the mess facility, made up inovative drill routines, etc...

[JayT]

Pimp Step March
Change Position March
Forward Go
Chillax
Breach and Clear
Forward to the rear with a slight hesitation change step March

Good times. Illinois Wing Summer Encampment 2004 Comm/Sec Flight.

Right...So I take it your flight can perfectly preform any move in the D&C manual before you start jacking around?

[cnitas]

Pimp Step March
Change Position March
Forward Go
Chillax
Breach and Clear
Forward to the rear with a slight hesitation change step March

Good times. Illinois Wing Summer Encampment 2004 Comm/Sec Flight.

Right...So I take it your flight can perfectly preform any move in the D&C manual before you start jacking around?

Or perhaps a way to blow off a little steam in a high pressure environment.

[nesagsar]

Pimp Step March
Change Position March
Forward Go
Chillax
Breach and Clear
Forward to the rear with a slight hesitation change step March

Good times. Illinois Wing Summer Encampment 2004 Comm/Sec Flight.

Right...So I take it your flight can perfectly preform any move in the D&C manual before you start jacking around?

Or perhaps a way to blow off a little steam in a high pressure environment.

Both, half of the flight was on the Wing Drill Team.

[CKH405]

my favorite command to give to my cadets is alright the commander went inside everyone relax ......harch

[lordmonar]

Double to the right flank, double to the left flank, double to the rear, fade-a-way.......March!

JThemann.....sometimes you can play.....CAP is supposed to be fun sometimes.

[IceNine]

Comm/Sec Flight.

What's a Comm/Sec Flight?  Is it anything like COMSEC?

It is a program started at the ILWG Summer Encampment in '04.  It is ran like a communications school with the added duties of manning the firewatch.  The cadets will come out having used both current and outdated comm tools from P25, Slow scan/packet, HF, APRS, etc.  Things most cadets have never heard of.  They also get the added bonus of an ACUT, and MRO or CUL.  It really is a neat program ran by some really great folks.  When I was involved we also did some Fox Hunting, and the cadets got REALLY efficient at locating the perps of hot mic's

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming

[IceNine]

My favorite is using completely legit commands that NO ONE uses.

WIWAC it was open and close march and the like.

I also enjoy the, name slips my mind, command where the entire formation does an about, but each element walks in between 2 others.  I've seen it a bunch at The Quarterdeck of the Navy.  Can any of your sailors help a brother out?

[DC]

My favorite is using completely legit commands that NO ONE uses.

WIWAC it was open and close march and the like.

I also enjoy the, name slips my mind, command where the entire formation does an about, but each element walks in between 2 others.  I've seen it a bunch at The Quarterdeck of the Navy.  Can any of your sailors help a brother out?

Counter, March

[IceNine]

Merci Monsieur

[NIN]

I was taught "Double to the rear with a slight hesitation, parade rest, halt, HARCH!"  WIWAC, and it was something we did as a goof after we'd been doing drill 1/2 the night.  (and no, we weren't very good at D&C, really)

Fast forward 5 years, and I'm getting grilled by my Senior Drill Sergeant at my BCT company about my fitness to assume a leadership role in my platoon, and he says "So, you think you know drill & ceremonies, do you?  Well, private, what about 'Double to the rear with a slight hesitation, parade rest, halt, HARCH?'"  Watching his jaw drop out of the corner of my eye as I executed the command, complete with "army-style parade rest" was priceless...

And yeah, I managed to get and hold on to the leadership position for the duration of BCT.

[dwb]

Left Flank, Right Flank, Double To the Rear, Change Step, Change Step, MARCH was a favorite of my old flight commander.

It didn't scale well, though... seems every time you got in a flight of more than about six people, you'd all run into each other.  Maybe we needed to practice more.

[Ned]

From my flight commander days:

"Continuous Change Step, . . . HARCH"

[lordmonar]

From my flight commander days:

"Continuous Change Step, . . . HARCH"

That's called skipping down the road!

[dwb]

That's called skipping down the road!

"Sir, Cadet Snuffy requests permission to frollick!"

[IceNine]

There's always the classic break the tension type.

Present Arms

Order........Pizza

And such.  Works especially well after a barrage of very quick commands

[cap235629]

My favorite is using completely legit commands that NO ONE uses.

WIWAC it was open and close march and the like.

I also enjoy the, name slips my mind, command where the entire formation does an about, but each element walks in between 2 others.  I've seen it a bunch at The Quarterdeck of the Navy.  Can any of your sailors help a brother out?

We learned this in the Army in 88, Counter Column, MARCH!, Very cool when done correctly, otherwise humongous CLUSTER%$#@

[mikeylikey]

^ CLUSTER %$#@, March!   

My all time favorite......

"Now, fall in, in a single line or two, like they do in the army, all straight and stuff, hup, hup, hup, move it, lets go, look like you know what your doing, march"
- A LA SGT BILKO.  Great TV show, even better movie!

[cap235629]

another favorite was marching in the obliques, in a platoon sized formation or larger this looked WAY cool

[RickFranz]

Back when I was in Basic Training in the USAF, my flight Sgt was getting ready to go back to the "real" Air Force.  His favorite command was:  Hippitee ho flight go and hippitee hop flight stop.

[♠SARKID♠]

"RAZZLE DAZZLE!"

[dwb]

- A LA SGT BILKO.  Great TV show, even better movie!

You're not seriously suggesting that the Bilko movie was better than The Phil Silvers Show, are you?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big Steve Martin fan.  I can quote many lines from The Jerk.  But that movie was pretty lame, especially compared to how Silvers pulled off the Bilko character.

[mikeylikey]

^ Correct.  The TV show was better.  My slip. 

[ThorntonOL]

O'Grady is a fun drill game my unit plays occasionlly to test the cadets on how well they follow orders and know their drill. Basically Simon says. Worked extremely well when I was a cadet but haven't done it lately with the cadets and after our influx it starting to look like a real nice way to let them have fun and teach them at the same time, of course encampment was a lot of fun because you had about 15 cadets from various squadrons with various ranks and in a week they were a presentable unit even beating my squadron back home at the time because they knew how to do columns and a few other items which we were still trying to work out. (This is when I was a cadet.)

[DC]

O'Grady is a fun drill game my unit plays occasionlly to test the cadets on how well they follow orders and know their drill. Basically Simon says. Worked extremely well when I was a cadet but haven't done it lately with the cadets and after our influx it starting to look like a real nice way to let them have fun and teach them at the same time, of course encampment was a lot of fun because you had about 15 cadets from various squadrons with various ranks and in a week they were a presentable unit even beating my squadron back home at the time because they knew how to do columns and a few other items which we were still trying to work out. (This is when I was a cadet.)

Yeah, O'Grady, IDR, or whatever you happen to call it is great for teaching some of the finer points of drill, as well as getting some competetive spirit going if you can get two flights, competing. Even if you don't have two full flights, a flight of 12 or so cadets can be made up into small units.

We always allow the cadet that wins to command the flight next turn, so the junior cadets get valuable experience learning how to drill a flight.

[CadetProgramGuy]

Counter column was a favorite of mine during basic.  Teaching cadets to do it is another matter.

When we were in Mess Hall, we did a movement to split into the 3 service types, (RA, ER, and NG) we called it Mess Hall, Harch (we sang the song from teh movie "Cadence" - chain Gang.

[JMessmer]

Pimp Step March
Change Position March
Forward Go
Chillax
Breach and Clear
Forward to the rear with a slight hesitation change step March

Good times. Illinois Wing Summer Encampment 2004 Comm/Sec Flight.

Right...So I take it your flight can perfectly preform any move in the D&C manual before you start jacking around?

Wow lets not bag on him. Hes here tellin a story, contributing positively, why bag on his post? its all just fun

[pixelwonk]

Cadet, let's not revive old threads without adding anything truly worthy of necromancy.  Look at the date before you post.

[AlphaSigOU]

Double to the rear, by the right flank, left flank, double to the rear, MARCH!

And for fun... 'Hippity hop, mob stop!'

These were fun days, my broheims!

[ol'fido]

Forward, mosey and Forward Mass Mosey(large formations).

[Chief2009]

Forward, mosey and Forward Mass Mosey(large formations).

Sounds a lot like Mass Gaggle formation.

DN

[Always Ready]

"Present salute!" -AFROTC classmate during an IDE (Individual Drill Evaluation-Someone evaluates another person on how well they lead a flight in drill. They have to complete certain commands in a specific order in a specific amount of time and keep control of their flight at all times.)

"Do what they just did, MARCH!" -My CAP encampment flight sergeant who was practicing drilling the flight

"OMG do that cool thing where you turn around and march between each other, march...or is it harch? Just do it ok guys?" -An AFROTC upperclassman during an IDE. She never knew what she was doing lol

[MIKE]

Get how you was before you got like you is.

[Lt Oliv]

When I was in Basic (Navy) we had a guy who couldn't get the hang of flanking movements.  The entire division would flank left, and he would keep walking straight, generally taking out three or four other recruits in the process.

During inspection, he always caught firewatch back at the barracks for some strange reason...

[coolkites]

"CADET WHY ARE YOU LAUGHING" said by a hysterical (laughing) 1st Sergent. He was laughing harder than I was while he asked me. 

[Cadet Princess]

  I can't wait to be a flight Sgt!!

[coolkites]

Your time will come 

[Eagle 1]

I tend to stay away from joke commands unless the squadron deserves to have some laughs (or at least be in a situation which I perceive to be funny )

The first three just to see what they do - though the reactions to all of them are quite interesting:
"Column of files from the rear"
"Sit there at the position of attention without going to seats"
"Room Ten-Rest"

Miscellaneous Drill:
"Turn left (right) by doing what the guy in front of you does at the position he does it, march" (columns)
"At the same time, turn left (right), march (flanks)
"Go that way, march"

For the position of attention:
"Just stand there and pretend you're in the military"

Cadence:
Left, left, left, right.....izquierda, izquierda, izquierda, derecho, izquierda...


I often make up things in German and Spanish as well (as referenced above).

[Nick]

Miscellaneous Drill:
"Turn left (right) by doing what the guy in front of you does at the position he does it, march" (columns)
"At the same time, turn left (right), march (flanks)
"Go that way, march"

For the position of attention:
"Just stand there and pretend you're in the military"

Ooh.  I like those.

[GTM SGT Frazier]

From my flight commander days:

"Continuous Change Step, . . . HARCH"

That's called skipping down the road!

Agreed

[SarDragon]

Oh, horrors, a breeding necro thread! A year at a pop, twice!

[BillB]

Try this one...
double to the rear, by the right flank, left flank, double to the rear march.

mass confusion since each command ends on the wrong foot for the following movement.

[nesagsar]

Try this one...
double to the rear, by the right flank, left flank, double to the rear march.

mass confusion since each command ends on the wrong foot for the following movement.

I like how you think.

[Spartan]

A few I heard in the Army that I liked,  "Extend to the ZONK!"  "Mass Mosey, March" "Parrention" "SCATTER!" and "Ninja Vanish"  The best formation I ever heard was "soccer hooligans."

[manfredvonrichthofen]

A few I heard in the Army that I liked,  "Extend to the ZONK!"  "Mass Mosey, March" "Parrention" "SCATTER!" and "Ninja Vanish"  The best formation I ever heard was "soccer hooligans."

My favorite command in the Army was RepZONK!

[Major Lord]

"Everybody get out of the Bleepin' Road! There is a Bleepin big Bleepin' truck coming!

Out of the mouths of babes....

I thought it was a great: The command was clear, the importance of immediate action was communicated, and although decorum was sacrificed for the sake of proper form, protocol should not stand in the way of survival. In a pinch, I suppose, one could use the Monty Python command: Run Away, Run Away!

Major Lord

[lordmonar]

....... I suppose, one could use the Monty Python command: Run Away, Run Away!

The proper command is:

Jesus Christ! Run Away, Run Away!

The preparatory command is very important!

[Maverick925]

I tend to stay away from joke commands unless the squadron deserves to have some laughs (or at least be in a situation which I perceive to be funny )

The first three just to see what they do - though the reactions to all of them are quite interesting:
"Column of files from the rear"
"Sit there at the position of attention without going to seats"
"Room Ten-Rest"

Miscellaneous Drill:
"Turn left (right) by doing what the guy in front of you does at the position he does it, march" (columns)
"At the same time, turn left (right), march (flanks)
"Go that way, march"

For the position of attention:
"Just stand there and pretend you're in the military"

Cadence:
Left, left, left, right.....izquierda, izquierda, izquierda, derecho, izquierda...


I often make up things in German and Spanish as well (as referenced above).

Now, I cannot claim credit for this one.  My flight sergeant used to love this when I was a C/Basic way back in 1998.  Give the flight "Present Arms!"  Then, call "Ready Front!"  This used to get half of the squadron during Kelly Drill.  Even though I'm now a Senior, I will still use this on Cadets when I get the chance, or I'll teach it to the Cadet Staff.

[thatonekid]

Gaggle step...HARCH
Gaggle right flank...HARCH
etc.

[MCRmy]

Follow the road, March!
or,
Turn the corner, March!

Columns of Flile Right Flight Column Right, March!- what we use for march in review

[sneakers]

Follow the road, March!

I've heard something very similar as "Incline to the yellow line".

[HGjunkie]

"Mass gaggle that way, HARCH!" or "Move out of the road, NOW!"

Only because we drill in a parking lot. 

[lycan1138]

once in my naval Jrotc i heard an unusual command it was "Hey wait stop!" lol and the sad thing was it was during a drill compention

[titanII]

once in my naval Jrotc i heard an unusual command it was "Hey wait stop!" lol and the sad thing was it was during a drill compention

I don't suspect that this team won...

[cap235629]

Some of my pearls of wisdom from this year's encampment:

Do that thing that you do when you do it, MARCH!

Gaggle of Fraggles from the right, ROCK!

and the favorite of a certain cadet:

Lowrider, HARCH!

when the command of execution, HARCH, is given all passengers in the van, including the driver, will proceed to bounce up and down as if riding in a lowrider while keeping in time to the cadence that is called.

[lycan1138]

once in my naval Jrotc i heard an unusual command it was "Hey wait stop!" lol and the sad thing was it was during a drill compention

I don't suspect that this team won...

yea they didnt do well at all...

[Tags]

A new favorite at in my flight is when the guide-on is posted, the guide-on bearer says "Guide-on posted!" and the flight replies "With swag!" 

[titanII]

A new favorite at in my flight is when the guidon is posted, the guidon bearer says " guidon posted!" and the flight replies "With swag!" 

Fixed that for you

[Skydude61]

Counter, March

bugger of a move, that counter march....

[CadetHarry]

Left Flank Right Flank Double To the rear harch to the rear

[C/TSetser]

one our squadron made up was  point and laugh, on the command the flight raises there left arm and goes ha ha ha ha in a command voice, it is pretty epic

[DC]

one our squadron made up was  point and laugh, on the command the flight raises there left arm and goes ha ha ha ha in a command voice, it is pretty epic

That's been around for ages, my flight did that at my doolie basic encampment in 2005.

[Dizyd]

In my squadron we were marching to fast for a staff sergant taking a drill test so he said "Cadets, Slow Down Harch" He ended up having to say that many times.   

[Майор Хаткевич]

He was wrong. He should have counted cadence and given verbal cues if that wasn't followed.

[The Infamous Meerkat]

In my squadron we were marching to fast for a staff sergant taking a drill test so he said "Cadets, Slow Down Harch" He ended up having to say that many times.   

Instant drill test failure, that's just... dumb. I don't like seeing people fail, but that would be well deserved.

[Nuke52]

In my squadron we were marching to fast for a staff sergant taking a drill test so he said "Cadets, Slow Down Harch" He ended up having to say that many times.   

Instant drill test failure, that's just... dumb. I don't like seeing people fail, but that would be well deserved.

I think that's a bit harsh.  He'd have gotten marked down on the test for it, but give the man credit for, uhh, "creativity while thinking on his feet..."   

[cantthinkof1]

Stanky Leg, Harch!

[The Infamous Meerkat]

Sorry, I think that during a test one should know the test material, as that is the entire reason for having a test at all. Using a blatantly improper and unauthorized command shows a major lack of knowledge on the subject, and that the cadet would need some remediation and training before taking the test again.

Far too many cadets these days show up for their drill tests only having heard the commands for and executed the basics of drill, and know nothing more advanced than flanking movements... Then we pass them for 'not having instructed them correctly' and feeling bad for them, thus the cycle continues. They don't learn by getting passed for a lackluster performance, I certainly never did.

[Nuke52]

Sorry, I think that during a test one should know the test material, as that is the entire reason for having a test at all. Using a blatantly improper and unauthorized command shows a major lack of knowledge on the subject, and that the cadet would need some remediation and training before taking the test again.

Far too many cadets these days show up for their drill tests only having heard the commands for and executed the basics of drill, and know nothing more advanced than flanking movements... Then we pass them for 'not having instructed them correctly' and feeling bad for them, thus the cycle continues. They don't learn by getting passed for a lackluster performance, I certainly never did.

I agree with the majority of what you've said here, but the tests are not "zero defects" tests, i.e., one error and you fail.  The drill tests allow for mistakes and errors, requiring an accuracy of only 70%--not 100%.  If he calls one incorrect command, or even if he makes up some command he knows is wrong but he doesn't know the correct way to do it, as in "Slow Down, MARCH," that's still only one discrepancy and is not, in and of itself, reason to fail the test.

What if a cadet didn't turn her head as required during a "Dress Right, DRESS"?  Using your words above, she "doesn't know the test material during a test, which is the entire reason for having a test at all."  I guess that's a fail, right?  And clearly she needs "some remediation and training before taking the test again"?  I disagree.  She gets marked down for her error, and the test is scored considering the entirety of her performance--to a 70% standard.

[arajca]

Using it ONCE is one discrepancy. Using it multiple times is multiple discrepancies. After a point it becomes impossible for the cadet to pass the test.

In my squadron we were marching to fast for a staff sergant taking a drill test so he said "Cadets, Slow Down Harch" He ended up having to say that many times.   

emphasis mine.

[The Infamous Meerkat]

Okay, you took what I said and oversimplified the crap out of, good work. Now please go back and use the context of "he had to say it many times". I never said a single use of it was a failure, it was the multiple use that would make it a failure, and beyond that it would be something to address with the ENTIRE flight about not running through their drill tests.

As for your Eyes, Right comment, that is a very minor mistake versus a command that causes the entire flight to do the 'wrong' thing. Very different cases of nowhere near similar magnitude.

Also, remediation should happen whether or not a cadet passes or fails, there are always things to be improved upon. Its not a punishment, its a fact of life and something every cadet needs to learn is going to happen. Constructive criticism will be offered for the rest of their lives, they need to learn not to be offended by it.

[Nuke52]

Using it ONCE is one discrepancy. Using it multiple times is multiple discrepancies. After a point it becomes impossible for the cadet to pass the test.

In my squadron we were marching to fast for a staff sergant taking a drill test so he said "Cadets, Slow Down Harch" He ended up having to say that many times.   

emphasis mine.

So every time a cadet is out of step, that's an additional discrepancy?  Left, Right, Left, Right, Lef--oh darn, I just failed.  I guess there's always next month...

No, you are wrong.  Look at a drill test.  Even if the command "Right Flank, MARCH" is used three times, it is only graded once.  The other instances on the grade sheet will say something like "Not Graded" or "N/A", "-", etc. 

Does the cadet know how to do an About, FACE?  No?  That's one wrong, not an additional mark down for each time they don't get it right.  emphasis mine.

[The Infamous Meerkat]

YES! It means even though you were given the same question multiple times on the same test, you failed to get it right EVERY SINGLE TIME! This is the exact coddling I'm talking about. If they knew the material, they would correct their discrepancies and move on, but them not doing so when they have three such opportunities is not one failure, as it is on the test several times. Also, aren't they supposed to look at the test before hand so that they know whats coming?

And yes, there is always next month. Maybe the rank will be less of a pat on the back if they EARN it and are treated as professionals. It can be done, and doing so breeds true leaders. We can be good with the status quo, but we can be great if we hold ourselves to a high standard.

[NC Hokie]

Regarding a cadet's failure to properly maintain control of a formation, it might be a good idea to actually READ the furnished material.  For the tl:dr crowd, the following passages should be instructive:

Scoring Philosophy. Each drill maneuver usually involves several task steps. For example, the command,
"Column Right, MARCH" involves ten or more task steps. To make it easy for testing officers to evaluate the
cadets' performance on the drill field, this test booklet identifies two or three standards for each drill
maneuver. Cadets who meet those standards earn credit for that drill maneuver. In other words, testing
officers evaluate cadets only on the standards listed, even though those standards cannot possibly
encompass every last facet of a drill maneuver.

Note: The element's ability to perform the commands is NOT relevant to this test – only the cadet's ability
to call commands properly is being evaluated.

Taken together, the clear intent is that you cannot arbitrarily penalize a cadet for improper attempts to regain control of an unruly formation.  You can ding him or her for failing to maintain overall leadership of the flight in the Achievement 4 test, but that is not enough to fail a cadet who meets the other four standards.

I'll listen to the argument that the cadet does not meet the subjective criteria of being "ready" for promotion (an argument that IS supported by the regulations), but we cannot willfully ignore rules, regulations, or instructions that we do not like.

[The Infamous Meerkat]

If the ability to call commands is the thing in question, the cadet should be dinged appropriately for using wrong commands. I'm not dockin him for the flight being too fast, I'm docking his lack of knowledge on the material. I have yet to see a cadet halt the flight, face them towards him, and instruct them to slow their pace, but I would be more than happy if one would, as it would show knowledge of proper commands.

Trust me, I've read that material, and I can't see it supporting what you're trying to say. They called commands wrong, that is grounds for docked points.

[Майор Хаткевич]

If the ability to call commands is the thing in question, the cadet should be dinged appropriately for using wrong commands. I'm not dockin him for the flight being too fast, I'm docking his lack of knowledge on the material. I have yet to see a cadet halt the flight, face them towards him, and instruct them to slow their pace, but I would be more than happy if one would, as it would show knowledge of proper commands.

Trust me, I've read that material, and I can't see it supporting what you're trying to say. They called commands wrong, that is grounds for docked points.

Maybe you need to RTFM quote posted above again.

You test / ding them ONLY on what is on the page. If we were going out and judging every.single.little.thing the cadets were doing wrong, I would be removed from my position for failure to do my job right.

[Walkman]

If the ability to call commands is the thing in question, the cadet should be dinged appropriately for using wrong commands. I'm not dockin him for the flight being too fast, I'm docking his lack of knowledge on the material. I have yet to see a cadet halt the flight, face them towards him, and instruct them to slow their pace, but I would be more than happy if one would, as it would show knowledge of proper commands.

Trust me, I've read that material, and I can't see it supporting what you're trying to say. They called commands wrong, that is grounds for docked points.

The use of made-up drill commands (aside from a little humor here and there) is to throw a little curve ball at cadets during drill practice to help them get the hang of really listening and reacting to the correct commands. This is just a little thing to drop in once in a while, trick question kinda' stuff.

[The Infamous Meerkat]

If they relieve you for upholding a decent standard, that's your wing's problem. The reason the command in question doesn't have a section in the book is because it doesn't exist, and therefore is unsatisfactory in every sense of the word. With that in mind, a cadet that passes all of his drill tests while also throwing out non-existant commands all willy-nilly as he/she pleases does not understand drill and ceremonies, as the purpose of drill and ceremonies is order and precision in movements. One cannot make it up as they go along, there is a drill manual that clearly defines what you can and cannot do. Curveballs are okay in moderate use during practice, but not testing.

Unfortunately, the Learn to Lead manual could never be all encompassing, but wouldn't common sense tell you that if they can't use proper commands during testing then 'significant deficiencies exist that would preclude the cadet from marching with other proficient cadets'? He can't march a flight that is going to be confused about his random, incorrect commands (and he needs to demonstrate that he can do it correctly before he throws curveballs at other cadets). They also 'doesn't meet the basic requirements', in that they don't adhere to the drill card and the tests provisions. One also simply cannot 'perform the maneuvers acceptable standards' if the maneuver has no place in drill at all.

But hey, I'm wrong, and since it's not on the drill card we'll just have to let them do whatever they want, right?

[Майор Хаткевич]

We don't let them do what they want. We do test on the published test, nothing else.

[NC Hokie]

Unfortunately, the Learn to Lead manual could never be all encompassing, but wouldn't common sense tell you that if they can't use proper commands during testing then 'significant deficiencies exist that would preclude the cadet from marching with other proficient cadets'?

You're right that the testing book isn't all encompasing.  In fact, it specifically states that "testing officers evaluate cadets only on the standards listed, even though those standards cannot possibly encompass every last facet of a drill maneuver."  It also defines satisfactory performance as meeting "all of the acceptable standards for the maneuver, as shown on the scorecard."  If the scorecard measures using correct commands, you can ding them on that ONE item, but you CANNOT ding them each and every time they make the same mistake, and you CANNOT ding them for something that's not on the scorecard.

It's a very narrow box with no room for common sense interpretation, but that's the box NHQ expects us to play in.

But hey, I'm wrong, and since it's not on the drill card we'll just have to let them do whatever they want, right?

Nope.  Hold them to the standard defined by the test and grade them on that.  If you notice other deficiencies during the test, notify the appropriate people and let the rest of the promotion system work.  Your job as testing officer is to administer the test and report the grade, not determine if the cadet is ready to promote or not.

If you think this is just an academic exercise for me you couldn't be further from the truth.  My daughter was recently held back because the Leadership Officer did not think that she was proficient in leading a formation, even though he (as Assistant Testing Officer) gave her a passing grade on her drill test.  He documented his concerns on a CAPF 50 and gave her a plan to attain the level of proficiency that he expected.  As her father, I recused myself from the discussion.  As the Deputy Commander for Cadets, I fully supported his decision to use the tools at his disposal to address a deficiency that was not measured by any of the tests.

[The Infamous Meerkat]

I guess the issue is that I was unaware that a filing recommendations on a CAPF 50-1 was under the drill test purview. I already have more than enough people telling me that one person can't fix the system, so in the interest of fixing the annoying lack of knowledge on drill, C&C, uniform wear, etc. in my squadron, I tend to be a little more straightforward about obvious problems. It is a slippery slope, not for one cadet, but for the hundred that come after them, which is the point my squadron stands at. The learn to lead series is fine, even the grading for drill is fine, but leaving out judgement calls for things like this is a major problem, as it allows obvious problems to slip through the cracks in the rubric, simply because 'it's not on the test'.

In any case, you dug my somewhat jesting statement up and then went after the square yard of dirt around it. Our drill system has problems (in most cases I've seen), but I'll just have to work more actively on it, since the tests obviously won't do it all.

[Майор Хаткевич]

The tests check proficiency. The cadet being evaluated should not be, and is not allowed to be learning on the spot. WIWAC (sigh), we didn't have drill tests each achievement. But I honestly feel most cadets knew how to drill better because we dedicated time to it, as opposed to "teaching to the test" that IMO it has become.

[The Infamous Meerkat]

There is definitely something to be said for that ^. Nowadays it's moreso that we hand them the book, tell them to 'learn', then give them a test they have barely practiced at. It's actually my fault for expecting to much out of it, because that's exactly what we did WIWAC in 2007. I only made it to C/SSGT, but I thought the drill tests were cheap and easy because I was a dual JROTC Cadet, and a C/MAJ at that.... The only reason most of the younger cadets knew drill so well is that we had senior cadets that had worked really hard on it and perfected the art of it. now that we have cadets that have been taught the test for so long, they have no grasp of it, and make a lot of really easy mistakes very frequently.

It also doesn't help that our only prior military Senior member above 2LT is a light Colonel in his late 60's (I believe) who really hasn't much time for drill and such. He'll occasionally check it out, but he doesn't actively help out with it. The rest of the Senior members shouldn't be wearing Mil-style uniforms (IMO) and probably have yet to glance at a drill manual...

My fellow newer senior members and I will be putting a lot more work into it now that the thermometer has hit fifty degrees for the first time in many moons, but it's going to be a lot of work.Also, I sense that a lot of people are going to come down on us for 'instructing the cadets too much' and not letting them do their own thing...

[Майор Хаткевич]

Depending on how new a member you are, and your history with the unit, I would work with the CDC, not try to steam roll. After I reactivated after college at my old unit, it was a tough balance. I had 5 active cadet years behind me,  giving me a good idea of how things *should* be, but then program HAD changed. I wasn't even aware of the drill tests each achievement. When I did figure my way around the new program, And AFTER getting a CPO assignment, only then did I directly begin interacting with the cadets. But for the first month or so, I limited my involvement to being the only SM outside when the cadets were outside, and talked only with the Commander and the Deputy regarding issues/observations I had.

[The Infamous Meerkat]

I have been restricting myself in that exact manner, I voice the occasional opinion to the chain, watch the Cadets while we're outside, but nothing is brought up or changed. I have enough history in the squadron to know that it wasn't always that way, and that a lot of things have changed... but certainly not for the better. Myself and most of the Junior Lt's are just kind of fed up with no one up the chain putting any sort of consideration into our concerns after at least six months of voicing them. It's not that we're steamrolling, stepping on toes, or being annoying about it... we are simply not being heard.

It's an ongoing project, and we're working the problem. It's just going to take more time and effort, I think.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Welcome to the FNG world. You're my age, so don't expect to be considered an equal, especially of there was a lot of leadership turnover.

[aceofspades]

At my squadron meetings, the flight sergeant assigns 2 cadets from the flight to bring out the garbage we created. It started off with just saying '2 for garbage, 'blank' and 'blank'". One day, I decided to spruce things up. "'Blank', Blank' GARBAGE HARCH!"  It stuck, and now its a big joke.

Moral of this story, everythings better with a harch.