A Commission?

[gallagheria]

Not exactly true. Officer candidates are not required to be prior-service. On the technicality that all officer candidates must enlist and then go to OCS, yes they are enlisted, but even ROTC cadets and USMA cadets technically enlist as cadets before receiving their commission. So that is not true that you must be prior-service to go to OCS.

Then there are the MJC's, and anyone straight out of high school is eligible to go to those, and they commission in 2 years with an associates as well.

[Ricochet13]

Not exactly true. Officer candidates are not required to be prior-service. On the technicality that all officer candidates must enlist and then go to OCS, yes they are enlisted, but even ROTC cadets and USMA cadets technically enlist as cadets before receiving their commission. So that is not true that you must be prior-service to go to OCS.

Then there are the MJC's, and anyone straight out of high school is eligible to go to those, and they commission in 2 years with an associates as well.

Just a note . . . received an Honorable Discharge with the Grade of E-5 prior to commissioning as 2LT through ROTC.  My only prior service was 4 years of ROTC and the attendant requirements.

[mikeylikey]

Not exactly true. Officer candidates are not required to be prior-service. On the technicality that all officer candidates must enlist and then go to OCS, yes they are enlisted, but even ROTC cadets and USMA cadets technically enlist as cadets before receiving their commission. So that is not true that you must be prior-service to go to OCS.

Then there are the MJC's, and anyone straight out of high school is eligible to go to those, and they commission in 2 years with an associates as well.

Just a note . . . received an Honorable Discharge with the Grade of E-5 prior to commissioning as 2LT through ROTC.  My only prior service was 4 years of ROTC and the attendant requirements.

??  That does not make any sense.  Cadets are enlisted in the grade of CADET on the form, and then are held in the reserves until Commissioning.  Were you an SMP Cadet?  That is the only way I could think that you would be discharged, from a reserve drilling unit.  How long ago was this, was the first question I should have asked!

[SAR-EMT1]

Here is a question. Is there anyway to get a waiver processed for having had asthma as a kid - but not as an adult?

[gallagheria]

Not exactly true. Officer candidates are not required to be prior-service. On the technicality that all officer candidates must enlist and then go to OCS, yes they are enlisted, but even ROTC cadets and USMA cadets technically enlist as cadets before receiving their commission. So that is not true that you must be prior-service to go to OCS.

Then there are the MJC's, and anyone straight out of high school is eligible to go to those, and they commission in 2 years with an associates as well.

Just a note . . . received an Honorable Discharge with the Grade of E-5 prior to commissioning as 2LT through ROTC.  My only prior service was 4 years of ROTC and the attendant requirements.

??  That does not make any sense.  Cadets are enlisted in the grade of CADET on the form, and then are held in the reserves until Commissioning.  Were you an SMP Cadet?  That is the only way I could think that you would be discharged, from a reserve drilling unit.  How long ago was this, was the first question I should have asked!

Not sure if this is what they are talking about, because I never did SMP. However, the Army changed SMP to allow all cadets who did SMP to receive credit toward their pay (but not retirement) when they commissioned. So if you enlisted in a Guard unit and contracted ROTC, you would have been exempt from both basic and AIT.

I have never heard of a cadet in SMP getting a formal discharge from the National Guard but then again I have never asked. In reality, a cadet in SMP (a true cadet in SMP, not just a Guardsman who is enlisted taking MS I or II classes, who has gone to basic and AIT, and then maybe later contracts to be an actual cadet), doe snot even belong to the Guard. You are officially in the Guard, but Army regulations prohibit a contracted cadets deployment. So you may drill with the Guard and be paid as an E-5, but you are a cadet in the Army Reserve basically being lent to the Guard unit (unless you contract guaranteed reserve).     

[Hawk200]

Here is a question. Is there anyway to get a waiver processed for having had asthma as a kid - but not as an adult?

Considering there are waivers for almost everything, it might be possible. The only real way to know is to talk to a recruiter. There are some recruiters that will do everything possible to get you in if you really want to join up. There are others that will simply tell you no so they don't have to do the paperwork. The only way to know is to try.

[Steve Silverwood]

A co-worker of mine was recently commissioned in the Georgia National Guard. She has been in the Guard for about 11 years. She stated to me that they have inquired about people she knows who would be good candidates for a commission. I have read before that there is a state that only allows an associates versus bachelors for a LDO commission. Any ideas who thoughts.

At one point, the California Air Guard was looking for navigators and would commission with an associate degree.

That's what they approached me with while I was with the CANG at the time (1985-1986).  I politely declined.

[SAR-EMT1]

What exactly was the situation of CAP members during WWII? Were they given commissions as Auxiliary Officers?
Has something like this ever been considered?
Or more to the point would there be any positives or negatives to issuing SM's "Commissions" in the Auxiliary? (Part-time Aux status not withstanding)

[caplegalnc]

The Army SMP ROTC option cadet can receive retirement credit if they met the point per year requirement for retirement while a dual member.  The change was made in 2000 or 2001.  The SMP would get a discharge since it was a change in status from enlisted to commissioned.  The discharge certificate usually showed the rank of E-5 Cadet. 

[TankerT]

In my state, for a time, all SMP cadets were "enlisted" personnel in our National Guard, and would be discharged with a NGB-22 and get a certificate.  The funny thing was, is that they were all demoted from E-5 to E-3 when discharged.  Never knew why they did that here, but everyone's NGB22 and Discharge certificate read E-3... for whatever reason. And, mind you, this did not matter if they were prior service or non-prior service.  Some actually had been E-5 or E-6 before going ROTC and becoming SMP... I recall their being peeved about getting an E-3 discharge... but... in the end... they were officers... so I guess it worked out OK...

[JohnKachenmeister]

I'm not sure why this issue is causing anyone consternation.

If a cadet in ROTC is receiving pay and benefits, he must be in some military status.  If he is not commissioned and does not hold a warrant, there is only one military status left, that of enlisted.

If a person is enlisted, he cannot be an officer.  That's why on the day prior to his officer appointment, he will be discharged from the military.  The reason for discharge is "To accept appointment as 2LT," which will invariably be dated the next day.

I don't know why a person would be an E-5 Cadet, then discharged as an E-3, unless his "Permanent" rank was PFC, and he was administratively bumped to E-5 as a Cadet.  If he dropped out of ROTC and had to serve his contracted time as an enlisted person, he would probably be dropped to PFC in that case.   

[BillB]

If a ROTC cadet dropped it depends on how long he was a ROTC cadet as to his grade. Completing three years of ROTC used to provide E-5 grade. I haven't seen the new regulations.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Well, that would explain why an early-commissioned ROTC cadet with 2 years of college is discharged as an E-3.

[JAFO78]

My BBF in AZ was a 2LT USA Res., @20 because she went to NMMI. She returned home to Long Beach, CA,. finished her schooling and was changed to regular Army, she was Capt. when she resigned her commission, to be a full time mom.

AS for me I would be happy just to serve my country in any origination like CAP, as I feel at 47 I am too old to get a real commission. 

[mikeylikey]

I'm not sure why this issue is causing anyone consternation.

If a cadet in ROTC is receiving pay and benefits, he must be in some military status.  If he is not commissioned and does not hold a warrant, there is only one military status left, that of enlisted.

If a person is enlisted, he cannot be an officer.  That's why on the day prior to his officer appointment, he will be discharged from the military.  The reason for discharge is "To accept appointment as 2LT," which will invariably be dated the next day.

I don't know why a person would be an E-5 Cadet, then discharged as an E-3, unless his "Permanent" rank was PFC, and he was administratively bumped to E-5 as a Cadet.  If he dropped out of ROTC and had to serve his contracted time as an enlisted person, he would probably be dropped to PFC in that case.   

Everyone is getting "payed at E-5" and the actual contract E-1 that MOST ROTC cadets sign.  They will be discharged from ROTC, and enter AD as an E-1 if the military chooses, no matter if their contract says "while they are an SMP Cadet or just plain cadet they will be paid at E-5.  However, most that leave the program end up paying DFAS for their studnet loans if they were on scholarship.  Right now, I had one cadet leave and his monthly payment for his scholarship recoupment is $101.54 for over $32,000 worth of debt.  Not a bad deal if I say so myself.  Better than most private lendors and pell grants.  He knew what he was doing all along.

[O-Rex]

I think we lost sight of what a Commission is all about: it's an 'office' (hence the term officer) that get's it's authority from the President.  Commissions are signed by the President, whereas Warrants and NCO appoinments are signed by the Secretary of the particular branch.

As an officer, you are the President's representative, with certain legal powers and responsibilities thereof.

All of which has little relevance to members of an organization that is 'sometimes' an Air Force Auxiliary, and all-of-the-time a corporation.  I'm not trying to be a wet-blanket, that's just the way it is.

"Officership" is a state of mind; a way of life that is years in the making through vigorous study, and trial & error character development and experience.  I'd like to think of each of us as a work-in-progress to that end.

Whether military or CAP, if you got it, folks will notice.  If you don't, even the prettiest parchment attesting to the "special trust and confidence" from the President, Nat'l CC, or Grand Poobah isn't going to give it to you...

If your are focused on our missions, and have a genuine interest and concern for your fellow CAP member, then you are already well on you way, commissioned or not.

That's what counts.

[mikeylikey]

^^   :clap: :clap:

[aveighter]

Extremely well said!

[mikeylikey]

I think there should be Auxiliary Commissioned Officers in each Armed Service.  They are the non-paid, volunteers who if needed would fill in spots left vacant because of some event.  Then they would be moved to a paid status.  I think Australia and the UK and Canada do this, anyone back me up on that??

[JohnKachenmeister]

I think you are right, Mikey.  As I recall, persons in the UK, Canada, etc. can serve in Auxiliary positions.  Most are former officers.  In Canada they operate the Air Cadet Program.  Officers who are non-selected for promotion can still serve, and get promoted in Auxiliary slots.

I'm not fully clued-in on all the details, but I have talked to such officers at "Dinings-in" and the feature I thought best is that in the Canadian Air Cadet Program, the officers are NEVER recruited "Off the street" as we in CAP do.  All of them come from the Canadian Forces.