Tactical Vest Regs

[Fiddes_CAP-065]

Does anybody know where I can find the regulations on Cadets wearing a BlackHawk style Tactical Vest  ?


http://www.blackhawk.com/category1.asp?D=D0047&S=&C=&N=1&pricestart=&priceend=

[Hawk200]

There isn't one. If it doesn't have holsters, large knives, and ammo pockets there probably isn't any real harm. A Medic vest would be suitable for Ground Team activities, but some of the others aren't really necessary or appropriate.

That being said, make certain that your chain of command doesn't have any issues with it.

[JayT]

Does anybody know where I can find the regulations on Cadets wearing a BlackHawk style Tactical Vest  ?


http://www.blackhawk.com/category1.asp?D=D0047&S=&C=&N=1&pricestart=&priceend=

There really isn't 'uniform' regulations on field gear like this past camelbaks. But, like the man said, as long as your chain of command doesn't have a problem with it...

But, think long about wasting the money. Do you really 'need' this vest? Can you carry everything you need to on it? Can you carry to much on it?

Futher more, is it worth the cost? Can the money be spent elsewhere on CAP stuff?

Just curious, do you have a regulation jacket for your blues?

[mynetdude]

Does anybody know where I can find the regulations on Cadets wearing a BlackHawk style Tactical Vest  ?


http://www.blackhawk.com/category1.asp?D=D0047&S=&C=&N=1&pricestart=&priceend=

There really isn't 'uniform' regulations on field gear like this past camelbaks. But, like the man said, as long as your chain of command doesn't have a problem with it...

But, think long about wasting the money. Do you really 'need' this vest? Can you carry everything you need to on it? Can you carry to much on it?

Futher more, is it worth the cost? Can the money be spent elsewhere on CAP stuff?

Just curious, do you have a regulation jacket for your blues?

Are you referring to the AF style service coat? If so, yes I bought my own the squadron issued one to me but then when I got promoted I could no longer wear it as it had no epaulettes (of course I could have just added some and had them put on by a professional seamstress but I had to make sure it met regulation and it didn't look out of line).  I've been able to wear mine for 6 months until now, the winter fattening is getting to me so I'm out of regulation anything.

They need to stick me in the cadet physical training program , so for now I'm in civvies until I can buy me a set of corporate dress and BBDU/Flight suits

[W3ZR]

Does someone have a split personality or is it just me ?

[brasda91]

Does anybody know where I can find the regulations on Cadets wearing a BlackHawk style Tactical Vest  ?


http://www.blackhawk.com/category1.asp?D=D0047&S=&C=&N=1&pricestart=&priceend=

There really isn't 'uniform' regulations on field gear like this past camelbaks. But, like the man said, as long as your chain of command doesn't have a problem with it...

But, think long about wasting the money. Do you really 'need' this vest? Can you carry everything you need to on it? Can you carry to much on it?

Futher more, is it worth the cost? Can the money be spent elsewhere on CAP stuff?

Just curious, do you have a regulation jacket for your blues?

Are you referring to the AF style service coat? If so, yes I bought my own the squadron issued one to me but then when I got promoted I could no longer wear it as it had no epaulettes (of course I could have just added some and had them put on by a professional seamstress but I had to make sure it met regulation and it didn't look out of line).  I've been able to wear mine for 6 months until now, the winter fattening is getting to me so I'm out of regulation anything.

They need to stick me in the cadet physical training program , so for now I'm in civvies until I can buy me a set of corporate dress and BBDU/Flight suits

netdue, I don't think the question of the service coat was directed towards you, unless you're using two different usernames.  The question was directed to Fiddes, the original poster.

[Flying Pig]

From your logo, something tells me you are referring to a tac vest one might wear when playing AirSoft?   For the most part, unless you get one specific to SAR/medical, it probably wouldn't serve you well.  In my own unit, if a cadet showed up with ammo pouches full of bandages, I would have to say "No".

If you decide to go through with it, there are other MANY companies other than Blackhawk who specialize in medical/SAR vests.  You can also get them in other colors such as orange or blue vs. black or green.

[NIN]

Not only that, but every time I see someone wearing one of these tactical vests (and even the LBV) for SAR purposes, I have to laugh out loud. They just look bloody ridiculous.  They usually have 2-3x as many pouches as they legitimately need crammed with all manner of stuff that is of marginal value.

Not only that, but they're basically "another layer" on top of your uniform.  That might be a good thing in the winter time, but in the summer, time there is very little I want between me and the air. 

My experience with these things has been limited to trying one on, using it for awhile and saying "Gawd, no, too darn [insert one or more: cumbersome, hot, heavy, chafing, gear-queer-ish]." 

I was at a SAREX base a few months ago and some cadet showed up for ground team. I watched him shamble his way across the parking lot with a 3-day assault pack LOADED to the gills with stuff, plus some kind of tactical vest, and the guy had a set of those hard kneepads that were down around his ankles.

(like these dudes:
)

I felt like saying "Uh, Fallujah is like 8,500 miles that way, guy.."

I understand the need for equipment that suits your purpose.

I'm even willing to look the other way a little when it comes to things like boonie hats and bandannas around the neck and that sort of thing when it has a specific purpose, is worn appropriately, and isn't causing issues with the chain of command (ie. you're out sluffing thru the woods in the hot sun in July.. OK, I can totally go with letting someone get away with their boonie hat for that time.  Get in the vehicle to go back to mission base, your soft cap goes back on.  And don't tell me you need your boonie hat when the rest of us are wearing watch caps 'cuz the temp is -10 with wind chill. And don't show up going "All I have is my boonie hat. I left my soft cap at home.." cuz you're gonna trudge your happy butt home to get your soft cap rather than wearing that unauthorized boonie hat around mission base and drawing fire for the rest of us...).

But showing up at the mission base looking like you just trudged off the Chinook that flew you back to Bagram after 4 days in Operation Anaconda is not appropriate.

[Hawk200]

I was at a SAREX base a few months ago and some cadet showed up for ground team. I watched him shamble his way across the parking lot with a 3-day assault pack LOADED to the gills with stuff, plus some kind of tactical vest, and the guy had a set of those hard kneepads that were down around his ankles.

.............


I felt like saying "Uh, Fallujah is like 8,500 miles that way, guy.."

.........

But showing up at the mission base looking like you just trudged off the Chinook that flew you back to Bagram after 4 days in Operation Anaconda is not appropriate.

I've seen a few of those too. The kneepads still make me laugh, I've never known anyone that needed them in the field in the Army. Maybe when you're doing MOUT stuff, but for the most part they're not necessary.

Lot of folks want our exceercises and missions to look like military operations, but that's the wrong way. If it runs with military "efficiciency", then I'm all  for it. But if it's an attempt to look like a bunch of soldiers going into the field, that's not what we're about.

I've even had a few people look at me when I wore what they thought was less than I needed, and ask if I had enough. I carry a few items on a load carrier, and I always have a CamelBak. Strangely, I only see a few people that think about the fact that you need water all the time. Many people don't think to carry it.

[mynetdude]

Does anybody know where I can find the regulations on Cadets wearing a BlackHawk style Tactical Vest  ?


http://www.blackhawk.com/category1.asp?D=D0047&S=&C=&N=1&pricestart=&priceend=

There really isn't 'uniform' regulations on field gear like this past camelbaks. But, like the man said, as long as your chain of command doesn't have a problem with it...

But, think long about wasting the money. Do you really 'need' this vest? Can you carry everything you need to on it? Can you carry to much on it?

Futher more, is it worth the cost? Can the money be spent elsewhere on CAP stuff?

Just curious, do you have a regulation jacket for your blues?

Are you referring to the AF style service coat? If so, yes I bought my own the squadron issued one to me but then when I got promoted I could no longer wear it as it had no epaulettes (of course I could have just added some and had them put on by a professional seamstress but I had to make sure it met regulation and it didn't look out of line).  I've been able to wear mine for 6 months until now, the winter fattening is getting to me so I'm out of regulation anything.

They need to stick me in the cadet physical training program , so for now I'm in civvies until I can buy me a set of corporate dress and BBDU/Flight suits

netdue, I don't think the question of the service coat was directed towards you, unless you're using two different usernames.  The question was directed to Fiddes, the original poster.

wasn't paying attention then  /me walks away quietly....

[Flying Pig]

Ahhh, yes.  The kneepads around the ankles.....very Infantryish. 

[♠SARKID♠]

Ahhh, yes.  The kneepads around the ankles.....very Infantryish. 

I have a set that I keep caribeanered(spelling?) to my gear.  I have them because I hate scraping my knees/getting them wet in mud, snow, etc.  I usually don't wear them but I have them just in case.

[NIN]

I have a set that I keep caribeanered(spelling?) to my gear.  I have them because I hate scraping my knees/getting them wet in mud, snow, etc.  I usually don't wear them but I have them just in case.

But you don't put them on, then push them down to your ankles and go trudging into the mission base building trying to look 'ard, do you?

[mynetdude]

I have a set that I keep caribeanered(spelling?) to my gear.  I have them because I hate scraping my knees/getting them wet in mud, snow, etc.  I usually don't wear them but I have them just in case.

But you don't put them on, then push them down to your ankles and go trudging into the mission base building trying to look 'ard, do you?

lolz I look 'tarded enough wearing my own kneepads for IT work when I wear my AF BDUs around the hangar/mission base.  A lot of times I'd rather kneel and crouch over the PC to see if there is anything wrong or prepare it to be disconnected or whatever rather than just disconnecting it pulling it off the floor and putting it on a desk when I can simply just fix it right there if it is a small/easy fix.

I don't really have much of a workshop table to put my IT warez so I end up using the floor so I end up needing kneepads anyway.

EDIT: silly quotes things gets way out of hand.

[SKYKING607]

My personal concern is a tactical vest covering our uniform insignias.  Here in Calif. we have encountered too many remote locations where our "weed-growing friends" hang out with clandestine "groves" and "labs."  Imagine stompin' in the bush and coming across one of these operations?  Guys....first thing these "yahoos" are going to think is to shoot first.  Maybe some way to have our insignias or other distinctive markings on such equipment?

Some CAMP crews wear woodland BDUs are are known to the bad guys.  I still like my ALICE pack and LBE for such operations.

Just an opinion.

[Duke Dillio]

I know there are a few here in CA wing that are mourning the loss of the "ground team uniform," ala bright orange shirt and blue pants. 

Back to the topic thread, I personally own a Ferno First Responder vest which I like very much.  It has reflective panels on it and has red pockets on the black mesh.  It breathes very easily and has room for everything that I need.  Here's a link:

http://www.usemc.com/Ferno-5106-Responder-II-Mesh-Vest-p/0819784.htm

[mikeylikey]

My personal concern is a tactical vest covering our uniform insignias.  Here in Calif. we have encountered too many remote locations where our "weed-growing friends" hang out with clandestine "groves" and "labs."  Imagine stompin' in the bush and coming across one of these operations?  Guys....first thing these "yahoos" are going to think is to shoot first.  Maybe some way to have our insignias or other distinctive markings on such equipment?

Some CAMP crews wear woodland BDUs are are known to the bad guys.  I still like my ALICE pack and LBE for such operations.

Just an opinion.

Wow.  That brings back memories.  When I was a terd ROTC cadet at fort Lewis WA for "summer camp", we were doing squad STX (patrolling and infantry stuff), when we came across  a few meth labs.  These idiot drug makers would sneak onto the post in the remote "foresty" areas and set-up shop.  We were given a briefing that "if we were to come across such a set-up mark the location on your map and run away as fast as you could". 

I don't think bad drug people would NOT shoot anyone that came across them.  No matter what uniform they were wearing.

[mynetdude]

the first responder vests almost look like a better choice than using tac vests for some stuff... but then again would it be allowed as it isn't woodland cammo?

[JayT]

the first responder vests almost look like a better choice than using tac vests for some stuff... but then again would it be allowed as it isn't woodland cammo?

Read the above posts. There isn't any regulation on stuff like this.

[BlackKnight]

My personal concern is a tactical vest covering our uniform insignias.  Here in Calif. we have encountered too many remote locations where our "weed-growing friends" hang out with clandestine "groves" and "labs."  Imagine stompin' in the bush and coming across one of these operations?  Guys....first thing these "yahoos" are going to think is to shoot first.  Maybe some way to have our insignias or other distinctive markings on such equipment?

Some CAMP crews wear woodland BDUs are are known to the bad guys.  I still like my ALICE pack and LBE for such operations.

Just an opinion.

This argument against a tactical vest is a bit irrelevant because when you're in the field you're wearing your orange vest, right? 
The orange vest covers your BDU patches and insignia just like the tactical vest does.  Only your sleeve patches will be visible.

[mynetdude]

you know if you want to get technical about vests and stuff... we have a guy in our squadron who wears an OD survival vest or I don't know its really called he calls it a survival vest... he only wears it during aircrew flights.

He says its a good way to have all your immediate gear on your body should the plane crash and you have to get out and don't want to have to think about getting your carried gear out from the back (as if you can get to that?), sure the vest isn't a carry all but its ON you and it goes WITH you when you evac the aircraft or if you are pulled out of the wreckage at least its ON you.

There are no regulations saying you can't do this, although I would make sure that there is enough room for you to manuever whether you are in the back seat or in the right/left seat.

[Flying Pig]

I wear the standard USAF issue survival vest when I fly.  I think what we are getting at here  is people who show up looking like Infantryman with full load bearing gear and magazine and grenade pouches.

[mynetdude]

I wear the standard USAF issue survival vest when I fly.  I think what we are getting at here  is people who show up looking like Infantryman with full load bearing gear and magazine and grenade pouches.

So what? as long as you don't have the real thing or a dummy one who cares? Hey I'll bet those grenade pouches can hold other USEFUL stuff right? I'll bet those magazine holders are big enough to hold some pocket knives (allowed to be carried by an SM/Officer).

Though I do understand what you're saying... if you dress looking like someone going to war, there might be a slight problem with that to some people or your community.

[SSgt Rudin]

This argument against a tactical vest is a bit irrelevant because when you're in the field you're wearing your orange vest, right? 
The orange vest covers your BDU patches and insignia just like the tactical vest does.  Only your sleeve patches will be visible.

I wear this orange vest


all the pockets on my vest rig are still accessible

[JayT]

I wear the standard USAF issue survival vest when I fly.  I think what we are getting at here  is people who show up looking like Infantryman with full load bearing gear and magazine and grenade pouches.

So what? as long as you don't have the real thing or a dummy one who cares? Hey I'll bet those grenade pouches can hold other USEFUL stuff right? I'll bet those magazine holders are big enough to hold some pocket knives (allowed to be carried by an SM/Officer).

Though I do understand what you're saying... if you dress looking like someone going to war, there might be a slight problem with that to some people or your community.

Yeah, but you don't need it. The pilot survival vest is designed to help you survive for a short period of time. Flying with an assult vest on might allow you to carry a bunch of junk, but mostly it would get in the way I would think!

[floridacyclist]

I wear this orange vest


all the pockets on my vest rig are still accessible

While that may meet the letter of the reg requiring an orange vest, it sure seems to defeat the whole purpose of wearing one...at least in the daytime.

[mynetdude]

I wear the standard USAF issue survival vest when I fly.  I think what we are getting at here  is people who show up looking like Infantryman with full load bearing gear and magazine and grenade pouches.

So what? as long as you don't have the real thing or a dummy one who cares? Hey I'll bet those grenade pouches can hold other USEFUL stuff right? I'll bet those magazine holders are big enough to hold some pocket knives (allowed to be carried by an SM/Officer).

Though I do understand what you're saying... if you dress looking like someone going to war, there might be a slight problem with that to some people or your community.

Yeah, but you don't need it. The pilot survival vest is designed to help you survive for a short period of time. Flying with an assult vest on might allow you to carry a bunch of junk, but mostly it would get in the way I would think!

Survival vests are different than tac vests I get that, and I do agree that tac vests could/can get in the way if you are in an aircraft.  I was just pointing out that survival vests are not in regulation and I've seen people wear them over their flight suits.

[Hawk200]

Survival vests are different than tac vests I get that, and I do agree that tac vests could/can get in the way if you are in an aircraft.  I was just pointing out that survival vests are not in regulation and I've seen people wear them over their flight suits.

Most of the rucksacks that people carry are not in the regulation. The reg specifies the contents of various 24 and 72 hour packs, but doesn't say what the pack itself should be.

Kneeboards are not mentioned in the reg, but pilots/aircrew wear them. It comes off when the engine stops, though. Anyone walking around a mission base with a board still strapped to their leg is going to look like an idiot. Same with a survival vest.

When I'm riding scanner, I wear a ballcap to keep the sun out of my eyes. Makes scanning easier. But when the flight is over (that engine stop thing again), it comes off. It's simply using equipment while performing the duty. Once the duty is over, the gear gets put away.

Their are things used that are not in the regulation, but are useful while doing the work. It's possible to get a little too hung up on the pubs. As long as there are no safety issues, or it doesn't discredit CAP, be practical.

[Stonewall]

I've always been a strong advocate of standard LEB type web gear.  Same goes for standard ruck sacks like the large ALICE and CFP-90.  However, this doesn't mean I'm anti-vest or anything for that matter.  My opinions regarding LBE etc. is because it was always very easy to get, very inexpensive and very durable.  Not to mention the whole professional image thing with uniformity.  I still say that's important, regardless of what others say.

Now, onto vests.  I got myself a Blackhawk STRIKE vest and now that I won't be wearing it for the AF, I thought about using it for CAP.  It's OD and looks pretty good with BDUs.  With its MOLLE interchangable pouches, I looked and found some good/useful attachments for CAP/SAR/ES. 

Here is an image from the BHD catalog:



Then you've got every utility pouch you could need here

Small, medium and largue utility pouches; first aid, compass, smoke, strobe, signal, compass, admin (my favorite), canteen, hydration, camera, cell phone, and the list goes on.

I really think this could be an excellent option for CAP ES if one could afford it.  Just a quick estimate, I'd say you could spend up to $250 on a complete set.  But if you're in it for the long haul, it would be worth the price.  Especially for its interchangability, durability and professional look.

[Duke Dillio]

On the same kindof line, I found a setup that I really like but haven't found affordable yet.  The SDS RACK, or Ranger Assault Carry Kit, is a full MOLLE adjustable deal.  Lots of pouches and stuff.  I just want to find one that I can afford.

[Trouble]

On the same kindof line, I found a setup that I really like but haven't found affordable yet.  The SDS RACK, or Ranger Assault Carry Kit, is a full MOLLE adjustable deal.  Lots of pouches and stuff.  I just want to find one that I can afford.

If you are looking at getting a RACK, go for a Tactical Tailor MAV with X-harness instead, you will be much happier, TT made the original RACK for the 75th back in the 90's, then the Gov. had NATICK through SDS make its own version (i.e. ripped-off) of the MAV.    I would recommend the split-front version as its easy on/off.

http://www.tacticaltailor.com/index.asp

[Hawk200]

On the same kindof line, I found a setup that I really like but haven't found affordable yet.  The SDS RACK, or Ranger Assault Carry Kit, is a full MOLLE adjustable deal.  Lots of pouches and stuff.  I just want to find one that I can afford.

If you go for the full kit, it will cost you a bundle. There are numerous places that offer the basic carrier, many for $35 or less. You can piecemeal the rest, as there will probably be things that you don't really need, and you can add things not part of the standard kit that you can use.