Billy Mitchell Heritage Uniform.

[riffraff]

Aside from General McPeak, was anyone really all that unhappy with the pre-McPeak service dress?

With the US Army heading for blue, we'll now have 4 of 5 branches of service wearing that color -- (USMC, US Army, USAF, USCG). Aside from different colored trousers, there won't be much to separate the US Army from USAF other than branch insignia. Pretty ironic that US Army aviation still wears the winged props and USAF doesn't! 

[mikeylikey]

^ The only difference will be the Army will wear shoulder straps denoting rank, the AF and MC will still be wearing pin on. I think I read somewhere that the "winged props" or Officer Branch Insignia will return to the Jacket of AF Officers.  Don't forget the Army was the first to wear a blue uniform, they have had the modern version since the 1930's.  It was just "too dressy" for everday wear.   

Also, doesn't the Navy have a blue uniform?  As well as the other two uniformed services??

[riffraff]

True. Forgot about the Army's rank change.

And yes, one could argue that the USN winter uniform is really dark blue. If so, then 5 of 5 wearing blue -- at least in the winter.

What's next USAF now means US Armed Forces instead of US Air Force??

[JohnKachenmeister]

I thought the return of the "Wing and prop" was dropped.

If it IS going to return, then Lt Col White should be made aware that there were specific provisions for the CAP when the "Wing and prop" designated the Army Air Corps.

The Army Air Corps officer insignia had a gold pair of wings and a silver prop, but the CAP insignia was all silver.

[star1151]

Note the collar and medals.  IMO, this jacket would not look good on most of our members and definitely wouldn't look good on members of the female persuasion - it's about as flattering as a double-breasted coat on someone who has some weight.

I can't even begin to describe my feelings on how unflattering that uniform probably would be on most people.

[JarakMaldon]

I thought the return of the "Wing and prop" was dropped.

I would like to see this on the uniform.  All commissioning sources use the prop and wings now in some form or fashion as a token indicating compleation of a rite of passage (recognition, field training, etc.).  I recall back in ROTC how much emphasis was given on the symbolism of the insignia when were were given it and how proud we should be to have it.  Come commissioning day, however, it disappears forever... they even made us give them back. 

[mikeylikey]

Come commissioning day, however, it disappears forever... they even made us give them back. 

Thats Awesome.....I mean SAD!  That symbol is the history of the AF.  To not bring it back while introducing a jacket that represents the "early" years would be a shame. 

In fact I would go as far as saying bring back branch insignia for all officers.  Pilots/Navs get the props, invent (or steal back from the Army) other insignia. 

QUESTION......were these the "prop and wings" given to RTOC cadets at the end of Field Training (camp)?  Didn't the AF Academy get all "pissy" saying theirs meant more than ROTC, and ROTC cadets don't deserve them.  Or was it ROTC saying OTS doesn't deserve them??

[PhoenixRisen]

They are two separate jackets.

Option "A" on the left is the "Billy Mitchell Heritage Uniform" and is derived from this jacket:


Note the collar and medals.  IMO, this jacket would not look good on most of our members and definitely wouldn't look good on members of the female persuasion - it's about as flattering as a double-breasted coat on someone who has some weight.

Option "B" on the right is the "Henry Hap Arnold Hertitage Uniform" and is derived from this jacket:


Note the lapels and pockets.  The style of this one, IMO, is better, however, teh huge lapels and huge pockets would look horrible on people of smaller stature.  The belt will also over emphasize areas that most CAP members don't want to emphasize.  People with a "larger frame" that still meet our requirements would have their mid-section pointed out.

Two questions (unrelated to CAP Uniforms):

(1) What's the signifigance of the star above Gen Mitchell's pilot wings?  I know he's already got his BGen stars on his epaulettes, but above his wings?

and

(2) What's the funny lookin' badge Gen Arnold has hanging below his ribbons?

[AlphaSigOU]

Two questions (unrelated to CAP Uniforms):

(1) What's the signifigance of the star above Gen Mitchell's pilot wings?  I know he's already got his BGen stars on his epaulettes, but above his wings?

and

(2) What's the funny lookin' badge Gen Arnold has hanging below his ribbons?

I'm guessing it's the senior pilot rating for Gen. Mitchell. I could be wrong. Back then, insignia for dress uniforms were hand made out of bullion, so it's possible Gen. Mitchell earned an advanced rating and added just the star above his wings.

The funny-looking badge Gen. Arnold's wearing on his pocket flap is the earliest of all U.S. pilot's wings - the Military Aviator badge. Most pilots who qualified as military aviators before WWI wore this badge.

[PhoenixRisen]

he funny-looking badge Gen. Arnold's wearing on his pocket flap is the earliest of all U.S. pilot's wings - the Military Aviator badge. Most pilots who qualified as military aviators before WWI wore this badge.

So, I'm guessing then that they let him keep this even though he's got pilots wings above his ribbons?

[mikeylikey]

I am guessing Arnold was wearing "ultra-thins" ribbons

[RogueLeader]

he funny-looking badge Gen. Arnold's wearing on his pocket flap is the earliest of all U.S. pilot's wings - the Military Aviator badge. Most pilots who qualified as military aviators before WWI wore this badge.

So, I'm guessing then that they let him keep this even though he's got pilots wings above his ribbons?

He's a Five Star, would you tell him he can't wear them?  I wouldn't.  IIRC, a Gen has some wiggle room in uniform.

[Major Carrales]

I am guessing Arnold was wearing "ultra-thins" ribbons

I'm not sure what the practice was before or even when ribbons as they are today developed; but I have seen some older pics of soliders where the ribbons seemed to be just that...ribbons that seemed to be sewed on.

My uncle had a sort of "ultra thin" looking type of ribbon, that was not as modern ones are.

[ddelaney103]

I am guessing Arnold was wearing "ultra-thins" ribbons

Most likely his ribbons are sewn directly onto the uniform.

[AlphaSigOU]

In days of old there were no such thing as UltraThins; ribbons were sewn directly onto the uniform.

There is an unwritten rule stating that general officers are free to design their own uniiforms; in reality the only thing GOs in the USAF wear a special blue jacket with embroidery modeled after the MA-1 jacket.

[riffraff]

In fact I would go as far as saying bring back branch insignia for all officers.  Pilots/Navs get the props, invent (or steal back from the Army) other insignia. 

Heresy!!!! Not to mention you'd then have both US Army and USAF aviation officers wearing the same branch insignia.  Then again, it might be a good start towards getting USAF merged back into the Army, where it belongs!   

[O-Rex]

Is it me, or does it look like they threw the belt on SMSGT Athnos's Billy Mitchell uniform as an afterthought?

[Hawk200]

In days of old there were no such thing as UltraThins; ribbons were sewn directly onto the uniform.

There is an unwritten rule stating that general officers are free to design their own uniiforms; in reality the only thing GOs in the USAF wear a special blue jacket with embroidery modeled after the MA-1 jacket.

There is a also a belt buckle with the Air Force coat of arms on it that generals wear.

In the past, I know that there were many generals that didn't wear nametags. I don't know if this practice has continued or not.

[ddelaney103]

In days of old there were no such thing as UltraThins; ribbons were sewn directly onto the uniform.

There is an unwritten rule stating that general officers are free to design their own uniiforms; in reality the only thing GOs in the USAF wear a special blue jacket with embroidery modeled after the MA-1 jacket.

There is a also a belt buckle with the Air Force coat of arms on it that generals wear.

In the past, I know that there were many generals that didn't wear nametags. I don't know if this practice has continued or not.

There are two special belts.

They can wear a buckle with the "Hap Arnold" wing and star insignia on the standard blue web belt.

They can also wear a leather belt with dress buckle over their BDU, like a pistol belt.

[Hawk200]

They can wear a buckle with the "Hap Arnold" wing and star insignia on the standard blue web belt.

They can also wear a leather belt with dress buckle over their BDU, like a pistol belt.

So it's a Hap Arnold now. It was the old "bird perching on a shield" when I was active duty.

I remember the leather pistol belt. There was a wing commander in Alaska that wore one, all the time. Not sure why, but if in BDU's he had on that leather generals belt. I always figured it to be some kind of affectation. On a slimmer person, it might have looked OK. It made him look like a sausage squeezed in the middle.