Military Badges

[Sgt. Savage]

I searched for an existing thread and, well... didn't find a good fit so I'm starting this one.

Myself, a SMSGT I know and a couple of other members have significant prior service badges. Many of which are authorized by the AFI that governs wear of the uniform. 39-1 reflects that the Air Force dictates wear and position of military badges on the AF style uniforms and to contact CAPHQ regarding those items not lites in 39-1 table blah, blah, blah..

When I called about this, in February, I was told that it would be looked into. I'm still waiting for this information. I follow up and when I finally get through, I get the "I haven't forgotten about you..." schpeel and a polite 'blow off".

What does the membership at large think? Should this be a point of issue or should we not be wearing any prior service garb?

[Stonewall]

Welcome, SGT Savage.

There is a section in CAPM 39-1 that lists the military badges authorized to be worn on the CAP uniform.  In the Air Force, Jump Wings fall under "aeronautical" badges, so you won't see jump wings, but you can wear them.

If I remember correctly from your military.com profile, you can wear pretty much all of yours, minus the Ranger Tab.  Sorry, its just not listed.  That isn't to say, I haven't seen it worn on blues. 

Look at table 6-5, Page 116 in this link:  http://level2.cap.gov/documents/M39_1_chap_6_sec_B.pdf

You may also want to check out this thread http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1891.0 where we listed a couple of places to get Army and Air Force badges made in white on ultramarine (blue).

Again, welcome.

[Sgt. Savage]

Thanks for the welcome, and thanks for sending me here.

Combat Infantry, Combat Medical and CAB, Air Assault Badge,
Pathfinder Badge, Ranger Tab, Parachute Riggers Badge, Scuba Badge are all authorized by AFI 36-2903. I, personally don't have any major issues with 39-1 though, it doesn't include the Ranger Tab or the CAB. My bigger concern is really the CAB. I don't have one but some do and deserve the right to wear it. I wouldn't mind donning my Tab but, the badge doesn't make the man, it's the experience that earned it that makes the man.

The question I posed to Natonal was regarding the CAB, minus the Ranger tab. Still can't get an answer after 3 months.

It also isn't very clear regarding the CMB. 39-1 says "Army Medical Badge" which seems to point to the EFMB, but doesn't specify.

Does this process require an ammendment to the reg?

It already say both "Only those badges authorized for wear on the USAF uniform are authorized on the CAP uniform"

and "on the BDU as prescribed by the US Air Force."

None the less, no joy.

Jim

[Stonewall]

39-1 hasn't been updated to include the CAB, but there is no doubt in my military mind that the CAB is/will be authorized.  The uniform committee at CAP may not even know what the CAB is.

As for the CMB, its good to go.  The Air Force isn't exactly accurate in their interpretation either.  They say "medical badge", which to me, includes EFMB as well as CMB.

I'm in the Air National Guard and have seen all of the above on Air Force uniforms.  Some may point at me and say I'm a hypocrite, but I say if you can wear it on the USAF uniform you can wear it on the CAP uniform.

The tabs (Ranger, SF, Sapper, etc) just don't have a place on the CAP BDUs since the only patches allowed on the left sleeve are wing patches or nothing at all.  Same goes for the Air Force. 

That being said, we had a guy up in National Capital Wing who wore SF and Ranger (subdued) above his wing patch.  I didn't think it looked great and wasn't just slightly against regs, it was absolutely not authorized, but hey, it wasn't like he was walking around on a military base or at encampment, we were in the field.

[Rangersigo]

SGT Savage - what Battalion did you serve and when?

[MIKE]

I'm in the Air National Guard and have seen all of the above on Air Force uniforms.  Some may point at me and say I'm a hypocrite, but I say if you can wear it on the USAF uniform you can wear it on the CAP uniform.

I thought that was how it worked already... CAP just added badges to the table that are not authorized by AFI 36-2903.

The tabs (Ranger, SF, Sapper, etc) just don't have a place on the CAP BDUs since the only patches allowed on the left sleeve are wing patches or nothing at all.  Same goes for the Air Force.

Saw a CAP Lt Col wear one of the metal pin-on Ranger tabs next to jump wings in service dress once.

IMO as just a CAP member and an Auxie...  Badges which are not common to most services just look out of place on some uniforms.  I realize that people are justifiably proud of their service, but still...

[LtCol White]

I had a buddy who was a LtCol in CAP and a AD Maj in USAF. Prior to his USAF career he was a Ranger.  He used to wear his tab on the CAP blues shirt. A CAP member came up to him once and rudely said "You can't wear that" and his response was "take it off" 

[Sgt. Savage]

SGT Savage - what Battalion did you serve and when?

B Co. 3 Bat 92-93

[arajca]

I had a buddy who was a LtCol in CAP and a AD Maj in USAF. Prior to his USAF career he was a Ranger.  He used to wear his tab on the CAP blues shirt. A CAP member came up to him once and rudely said "You can't wear that" and his response was "take it off" 

I have heard of this type of instance several times, and each time I have to ask myself why those members (the ones wearing the tabs/unauth. badges) do not respect the CAP uniform and regulations? Yes, they have earned those tabs. Yes, they have meaning. No, they are not authorized on the CAP uniform. If they cannot follow CAP's regs, why did they bother to join?

I would not have rudely informed your buddy, but I would have informed him and asked if he had any plans to follow the CAP regs regarding uniform wear. If he didn't, I would invite him to leave and not return until he did.

[Trung Si Ma]

I had a buddy who was a LtCol in CAP and a AD Maj in USAF. Prior to his USAF career he was a Ranger.  He used to wear his tab on the CAP blues shirt. A CAP member came up to him once and rudely said "You can't wear that" and his response was "take it off" 

I have heard of this type of instance several times, and each time I have to ask myself why those members (the ones wearing the tabs/unauth. badges) do not respect the CAP uniform and regulations? Yes, they have earned those tabs. Yes, they have meaning. No, they are not authorized on the CAP uniform. If they cannot follow CAP's regs, why did they bother to join?

My tabs and scroll are on my helmnet bag, but I did wear the CIB and Master Para Badge on CAP uniforms.

SGT Savage - I have some extra white on blue CIB's and Master Blaster badges if you need some.

RLTW  2nd Batt 1975
Remember that the tab is a school certificate, but the scroll is a way of life

[LtCol White]

I had a buddy who was a LtCol in CAP and a AD Maj in USAF. Prior to his USAF career he was a Ranger.  He used to wear his tab on the CAP blues shirt. A CAP member came up to him once and rudely said "You can't wear that" and his response was "take it off" 

I have heard of this type of instance several times, and each time I have to ask myself why those members (the ones wearing the tabs/unauth. badges) do not respect the CAP uniform and regulations? Yes, they have earned those tabs. Yes, they have meaning. No, they are not authorized on the CAP uniform. If they cannot follow CAP's regs, why did they bother to join?

I would not have rudely informed your buddy, but I would have informed him and asked if he had any plans to follow the CAP regs regarding uniform wear. If he didn't, I would invite him to leave and not return until he did.

If I'm not mistaken, the tab is authorized on the USAF uniform or at least it was back then. I'm also not sure if it was specified for CAP wear back then either. He was a stickler for uniforms so I know he would not have worn it unauthorized. This was in the 80's

[Stonewall]

Air Force personnel may wear Army patches, i.e. unit patches and tabs only while assigned to Army units, such as TACPs.  Once they leave that unit/duty and return to an Air Force unit, those patches have to come off, including combat patches.

That's just how it is.

As for our Rangers in CAP, Trung Si Ma has the right idea.  Helmet bags are great way to proudly show where you've been and where you're coming from.  I have the same set up.  Got some Army and Air Force stuff on my helmet bag.  Sort of tells a story.

Hooah.

[RogueLeader]

RLTW  2nd Batt 1975
Remember that the tab is a school certificate, but the scroll is a way of life

I just wanted to say thank you for all of you guys for your service and I think that its a shame that you aren't allowed to wear all your badges that you earned.

[Fifinella]

I had a buddy who was a LtCol in CAP and a AD Maj in USAF. Prior to his USAF career he was a Ranger.  He used to wear his tab on the CAP blues shirt. A CAP member came up to him once and rudely said "You can't wear that" and his response was "take it off" 

"....In ancient Greece, the Spartan General Leonidas was charged with guarding a mountain pass with just 300 men to delay the invading million man Persian army. When the Persian leader Xerxes offered to spare his men if they gave up their arms, [saying "Send the arms / weapons"], Leonidas replied "Molon Lave" (can't get the Greek to post right), or "Come and get them."... http://www.translatum.gr/forum/index.php/topic,281.0.html

[mikeylikey]

/SARCASM ON/ Don't forget CAP already has Rangers, and unless you don't go through their training, you are not a "real" ranger /SARCASM OFF/

[TankerT]

Hey Sgt Savage...

Just a little background on NHQ and uniform items/badges.

First... the folks at NHQ aren't trying to not anwer your question.  If you are asking about the CAB... truth is... they probably don't know themselves.  If it is a badge that isn't already covered... they have to ask the Air Force.  And... well... as you can imagine... the Air Force deciding on if we can wear a badge from another service... yeah... we're not high on their priority list.

Second... yeah... you'll get a no on the Ranger tab... but I expect eventually the CAB will be a yes.

Mind you... the folks at NHQ are trying to help... and are friendly.  But, in all honesty... they are under staffed, and some things are low on their priority list.  Not that they don't want to catch up on some of this stuff.  Fact is... some if it is out of their hands.  (Like the CAB.)

[RogueLeader]

I had a buddy who was a LtCol in CAP and a AD Maj in USAF. Prior to his USAF career he was a Ranger.  He used to wear his tab on the CAP blues shirt. A CAP member came up to him once and rudely said "You can't wear that" and his response was "take it off" 

"....In ancient Greece, the Spartan General Leonidas was charged with guarding a mountain pass with just 300 men to delay the invading million man Persian army. When the Persian leader Xerxes offered to spare his men if they gave up their arms, [saying "Send the arms / weapons"], Leonidas replied "Molon Lave" (can't get the Greek to post right), or "Come and get them."... http://www.translatum.gr/forum/index.php/topic,281.0.html

And the rest is History. 

[jimmydeanno]

I am not trying to belittle your accomplishments in any way, but just a question out of curiosity...

Why should military awards, decorations, badges, tabs, etc, be authorized for wear on the CAP uniform anyway?  When you join boyscouts, you don't get to wear the "Ranger Tab," or your "CIB."  So why such a hard push for the CAP uniform?

While you should be proud of your accomplishments in the military, how does showing that you are/were an Army Ranger have any bearing on anything you do in CAP?

Again, I'm not trying to belittle your accomplishments, just curious as to your reasoning, and generate some discussion amongst the membership here. 

[Fifinella]

There is a section in CAPM 39-1 that lists the military badges authorized to be worn on the CAP uniform.  In the Air Force, Jump Wings fall under "aeronautical" badges, so you won't see jump wings, but you can wear them.

From AFI36-2903: "Aeronautical and space badges are worn above occupational and miscellaneous badges. When more than 1 aeronautical or space badge is worn, the second badge becomes
optional.  The parachutist badge is not considered an aeronautical badge, however it does
take precedence over other badges."

From AFI11-402 "NOTE: A parachutist badge is not considered an aviation badge."

Sounds like jump wings are in a grey area in CAPM 39-1.  I assume CAP intended them to fall under "US Military Aeronautical Badges".  I'm not taking them off.  Molon Lave!

[RogueLeader]

I'd say that it was earned the service to the country, and should have the right to display them proudly on a uniform the USAF AUX. 
One thing that really gets me is that our uniforms are not held with  as much regard in our Country as in othere countries.