NRA qualifications badge

[SARDOC]

All this MP talk reminds me that there were MP's at Normandy during the invasion and as Soldiers came off the beach under enemy fire and some were issued tickets for not having a helmet or having their uniform in disarray.  I always found the story funny due to it's absurdity.  Having been an MP before I've never been in a role where I was ordered to enforce that kind of thing.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

235629, we're we're your 11 series guys to run patrols? We are the actual combat trained. Our daily workload is to get stronger, learn to fight better with our bodies, and shoot better, clear houses faster and more efficiently, and work together toclose with, engage and destroy the enemy. MPs daily workload is like a beat cop in the civilian world.

I value MPs in actual garrison environment, but to take someone out of their job scope and put them into another job is not a good idea in a combat environment. You don't want an infantry guy cooking your food, you don't want a cook kicking down doors, we aren't trained for eachothers jobs. They are just too different. That is why the military has MOS designations, so that each person can perform their job, and you don't have to take an infantry soldier out of the field to cook, and you don't have to take an MP off the beat to perform a combat patrol.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

The whole gun control issue rubs me raw like sand paper on fire.

Our 2nd amendment right shall not be infringed. Thomas Jefferson said that to be truly free we must be able to carry firearms equal to the ones that could be used against us, even ones used by our own military.

There are some that are arrogant enough, and perverse enough to say that the children in Connecticut would have died in vain if the ban does not pass. What about us? The soldiers that lay their lives in harm's way to protect the constitution, the declaration of independence? Would our efforts, lives, limbs, and eyes, our minds and souls would not have been given in vain if it does pass?

Why is Obama's family more important than mine?

[cap235629]

235629, we're we're your 11 series guys to run patrols? We are the actual combat trained. Our daily workload is to get stronger, learn to fight better with our bodies, and shoot better, clear houses faster and more efficiently, and work together toclose with, engage and destroy the enemy. MPs daily workload is like a beat cop in the civilian world.

I value MPs in actual garrison environment, but to take someone out of their job scope and put them into another job is not a good idea in a combat environment. You don't want an infantry guy cooking your food, you don't want a cook kicking down doors, we aren't trained for eachothers jobs. They are just too different. That is why the military has MOS designations, so that each person can perform their job, and you don't have to take an infantry soldier out of the field to cook, and you don't have to take an MP off the beat to perform a combat patrol.

You obviously have not a clue as to what a deployed MP does...... In fact, 90% of the garrison law enforcement in CONUS is handled by DA Civilians.

[Devil Doc]

NRA Badge>MP Talk>Deployment Talk>Gun Control Talk? Funny how we side track each other.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

235629, we're we're your 11 series guys to run patrols? We are the actual combat trained. Our daily workload is to get stronger, learn to fight better with our bodies, and shoot better, clear houses faster and more efficiently, and work together toclose with, engage and destroy the enemy. MPs daily workload is like a beat cop in the civilian world.

I value MPs in actual garrison environment, but to take someone out of their job scope and put them into another job is not a good idea in a combat environment. You don't want an infantry guy cooking your food, youop don't want a cook kicking down doors, we aren't trained for eachothers jobs. They are just too different. That is why the military has MOS designations, so that each person can perform their job, and you don't have to take an infantry soldier out of the field to cook, and you don't have to take an MP off the beat to perform a combat patrol.

You obviously have not a clue as to what a deployed MP does...... In fact, 90% of the garrison law enforcement in CONUS is handled by DA Civilians.

Obviously I don't know what a deployed mp does. I have only seen them giving tickets, yes tickets, for not wearing a PT belt. I have never seen an mp on patrol or engaged in combat, that was my job. We didn't have MPs, and our deployment was enjoyable while inside the wire. That's all I'm saying. Well, other than the shot into our COP every couple of hours, and the mortars every morning afternoon and night.

My job consisted of door to door ops looking for weapons, detaining people, blowing up caches, and waiting until we have been on the ground for fourth five minutes for a firefight to ensue.

Out of genuine curiosity, what did yours consist of?

And for the percentage you quoted, I have no idea where that comes from, every police officer I have delt with on post was an mp, not civ.

[Eclipse]

Manfredvonrichthofen, you decided PT belts were unnecessary, someone higher then you and the MP, decided they were required.

Your beef is with the higher up, not the MP, just like in civilian life when cops write tickets for something people think shouldn't be illegal or isn't worth their attention.

You're not going to try and make the "go out and catch a real lawbreaker argument" or worse, try to make a mark higher on the
wall then some other servicemember?

[Luis R. Ramos]

Eclipse-

It appears that in the military, just like in the CAP, there are some people that do not like a regulation and want to do their own thing. Fortunately in the military, you cannot flaunt a regulation or order as some CAP people do when they on their own decide that "there is a hole in a regulation," "a regulation is outdated," or just does not apply to them. In the military, those who do so pay. In CAP, they do not.

[a2capt]

I have a feeling this whole NRA thing is going to get bigger than we realize.

..and has nothing to do with the badge, the regulations on it, or anything in between. There are forums for that discussion.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Eclipse, someone higher than me decided pt belts weren't worth the space, someone higher than the mp decided pt belts weren't worth the space, and it came to a cross between those two colonels, and neither won their argument, so we continued to do OUR own thing. What you said about go catch a real criminal is your own words, not mine. I gave my opinion, and stTed my observations about what I saw, and asked for his observations and experiences. Your comment is your own, not mine.

I also never tried to trump his job with mine. I asked him about his having stated thAT I don't know what his job entails. Please, taketh whole conversation before slamming one part of it.

[cap235629]

Red Baron, to answer to your question:

door to door ops looking for weapons, detaining people, Enemy Prisoner of War operations, Calling EOD or 21B's to blow stuff up, convoy security and waiting until we have been on the ground for anywhere from minutes to endless hours of boredom for a firefight to ensue.  I did not deploy, I never claimed to.  I am telling you what the MP combat mission is.  My generation is your generations SNCO's and Commanders.  I am still very active with the MP Regimental Association and have many friends who are still in theater and/or are home after their 3rd or 4th deployment.  Many soldiers do not know what the MP skill set is and are surprised, just as you were, that the Military Operations in Urban Terrain you performed when outside of the wire has been in the MP training and mission since Vietnam.

[lordmonar]

Eclipse-

It appears that in the military, just like in the CAP, there are some people that do not like a regulation and want to do their own thing. Fortunately in the military, you cannot flaunt a regulation or order as some CAP people do when they on their own decide that "there is a hole in a regulation," "a regulation is outdated," or just does not apply to them. In the military, those who do so pay. In CAP, they do not.

Ahhh......no.  In the military we focus on the mission.  Yes...we follow the regs....but don't get bent out of shape over them.  In my 22 years on AD there are many many many times we have purposly violated regulations.  Everything from wearing un authorised shirts to violoating "thou shall not" regulations.  Yes there there is an art to doing this.....and I am not advocating everyone just doing their own thing.....but let's not pain the military as some regs robots....the PT belt is a prime example of the BS we had to put up with on Ad.   Wearing a high vis PT belt while in a combat zone is some how disconnected with the same organisation that is spending even more money on trying to find the right camoflage uniform for combat zones.   The point is.......any regulation that is a hinderance to the mission is going to get violated.  My last commander used to have a phrases......"noted...proceed"... He would tell us to do XYZ, we would tell him what regs or policy pervented us from doing XYZ....."noted...Proceed".....and we proceeded.

[Devil Doc]

I always thaught MPs were the guys wearing the white "Watch Belts" and wearing the white Kevlars and going into clubs and bashing people with there batons to break up bar fights. Or, the guys that come get you when you get thrown into jail.

[cap235629]

I always thaught MPs were the guys wearing the white "Watch Belts" and wearing the white Kevlars and going into clubs and bashing people with there batons to break up bar fights. Or, the guys that come get you when you get thrown into jail.

That is the Law and Order mission but MP's don't even wear White Hats in garrison any more.  It really is a VERY misunderstood MOS.  Division MP more than likely will never sit behind the wheel of a police car.  We even where the ones guarding the tactical nukes back in the day.  I had to qualify with the 38, 9mm, 45, rifle, M-60, 50 cal and Mk19 depending on my assignment.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Thanks Capt Hobbs, by the way, I think we have met. At the LRAFB air show this past Summer.
Idk what happened to my Sig block (ha... My autocorrect capitalized Sig, must be for Sig Saur... Yep), but I am Robert Killion, just moved to AR a few months back, I can't wait to get active again... Back on track.

You're right, I bet most don't know any of that about MPs. I never would have thought it. Makes you wonder why MPs and Infantry aren't rolled together in Iraq. Well, I guess not now since infantry supposedly isn't in Iraq anymore. But from my experience, MPs are a pain, I never got to work with them outside, just had coarse dealings with them on FOBs. I wish I still had the ability to though, I mean I wish I were still in.

And the reason for my name on here... I know, he was an enemy pilot, but he was also an honorable combatant. There are accounts of him not firing on pilots that had a gun jam, or had something else that took their fighting ability going on. He had even flown next to his enemies and gave a salute to show that he had no wrong intentions. While he was honorable, he was still a fierce combatant. My father taught me about him when I was a kid talking about joining the Infantry, and he told me to strive to be so honorable yet fierce and determined. So i always kept that in mind, and I strive for the same still.

Side not to your most recent post, I was stationed in Campbell, and MPs were always the ones behind the wheel. I really don't think there were any civs in any sort of police style uniform, except for a couple guards at a few of the gates that had commercial trucks in and out all the time, every other one was manned by MPs. Campbell may have been the exception.

[cap235629]

it's a FORSCOM vs. TRADOC  thing and also is heavily dependent on deployment cycles. Ft. Riley has a majority of DA Poilce, Ft. Hood the same.  Most TRADOC posts are the same way too.  The only "road MP's" are usually specialty troops like MPI (detectives like CID lite) K9 and Traffic Accident Investigators.  If a post's troops spend more time overseas, there is a  higher likelihood that you will see DA Police.  Usually a large installation like Campbell has multiple MP units that rotate the Law Enforcement mission between them.  One will be deployed, one in training and 1 assigned to the road or something similar....

[manfredvonrichthofen]

it's a FORSCOM vs. TRADOC  thing and also is heavily dependent on deployment cycles. Ft. Riley has a majority of DA Poilce, Ft. Hood the same.  Most TRADOC posts are the same way too.  The only "road MP's" are usually specialty troops like MPI (detectives like CID lite) K9 and Traffic Accident Investigators.  If a post's troops spend more time overseas, there is a  higher likelihood that you will see DA Police.  Usually a large installation like Campbell has multiple MP units that rotate the Law Enforcement mission between them.  One will be deployed, one in training and 1 assigned to the road or something similar....

That sounds like a solid plan. There is no garrison mission like that for Infantry, so I wouldn't think about that for any other MOS, I guess tasking would be difficult to arrange when you have a second job. Infantry, it's just fight, and train to fight.

[a2capt]

Can you all take your MP, totally unrelated discussion, to another thread that you make specially for it, in the anything goes section?