Ranger Roll

[Hawk200]

Because the manual only authorized the BDU cap and not the Ranger or Patrol cap, your point is mute. The latter two are not authorized to begin with.

A BDU cap and a patrol cap are the same thing. There have been a lot of companies that label those hats as "Ranger hats", but's a misnomer. The Rangers themselves haven't really worn a headgear that carried that designation.

And most of the hats now just say "CAP, HOT WEATHER" or "CAP, COLD WEATHER". The labels are just have different names. Doesn't really change what they are. They're authorized uniform items.

Look inside your own hat. I doubt it will say "BDU cap" on the label.

[MIKE]

Look inside your own hat. I doubt it will say "BDU cap" on the label.

CAP, HOT WEATHER BDU

[SarDragon]

Because the manual only authorized the BDU cap and not the Ranger or Patrol cap, your point is mute. The latter two are not authorized to begin with.

Patrol cap; Ranger cap; BDU cap - does it really make a difference? It looks like we're being overly pedantic here.

Just as an example - I have in my hot little hand two articles of clothing labeled: Coveralls, Flyers, Men, Summer, Fire Resistant CWU-27P [color]. These items are not mentioned as such anywhere in the CAPM 39-1. Does that mean I am forbidden from wearing them? Of course not. They are flight suits, and in other regulatory publications are required in specific operational situations. I think the same logic applies to our cap example.

YMMV.

[CAP428]

BDU Cap: Either the USAF or Army style BDU cap or camouflage BDU baseball cap may be worn
with the BDU uniform. Senior members, cadet NCOs, and airmen do not wear any type of insignia
on the cap. Cadet officers wear the embroidered grade insignia centered 1/2 inch above the visor on
the BDU cap. Cap will not be worn crushed or rolled. Marine style BDU cap is not authorized.

This rolling of the BDU, often referred to as "ranger rolling," is prohibited per CAPM 39-1.  However, I recently heard somebody mention that this is only applicable to those BDU caps whose labels say "BDU cap" or something like that.  He went on to say that if the label said "Patrol cap," or "Ranger Hat," you may ranger roll your cap. I did not think that sounded right, but I decided to look into it.

I have one that says "Patrol cap" and my friend has one that says "ranger hat."  I wanted to ranger roll my hat, because without it it sits really, really tall on my head and the only other way to stop that is to pull it down farther, then obviously obstructing my view.  However, I have searched through CAPM 39-1, looked for any pertinent policy letters, googled the subject, searched the forum history here, and checked the CAP Knowledgebase......

....without finding any mention of being able to ranger roll in cases where it says "Patrol cap" or "Ranger hat."

However one could make the argument that because the section of 39-1 dealing with this issue specifically says "BDU cap", that the rule of not rolling the cap is only applicable to those caps that also specifically say "BDU cap" since 39-1 does not make any mention of it when referring to baseball-style hats.


What are your thoughts??

BTW my "Patrol" cap is made by the company PROPPER.

Because the manual only authorized the BDU cap and not the Ranger or Patrol cap, your point is mute. The latter two are not authorized to begin with.

You haven't been following this very closely, have you?  The general consensus has come that a patrol cap is authorized because it is the same hat, just a different label.

I guess this is one of the reasons ABUs will be good for CAP and the USAF... It will most likely force members to go out and get the genuine article, versus some cheap knock off.  This assumes there isn't much of a market for the ABU outside of CAP and the USAF... Realizing that ACU and MARPAT knockoffs are out there.

PROPPER is a certified AAFES uniform supplier.  They sell the "patrol" cap.

[A1C_Lawson]

you people seriously need to get a [darn] life.  I'll give you an active duty perspective.  A long time ago that is long since passed i was in the civil air patrol I'm active air force now and nothing you learn in CAP helps you in the Air Force i'm just letting you know now so if anyone is thinking about enlisting then don't go into basic or even to the recruiter's office thinking you're bad [mess] becuase you'll be brought down quickly and for christ's sakes find something better to talk about than your [darn] hat

[lordmonar]

you people seriously need to get a [darn] life.  I'll give you an active duty perspective.  A long time ago that is long since passed i was in the civil air patrol I'm active air force now and nothing you learn in CAP helps you in the Air Force i'm just letting you know now so if anyone is thinking about enlisting then don't go into basic or even to the recruiter's office thinking you're bad [mess] because you'll be brought down quickly and for christ's sakes find something better to talk about than your [darn] hat

Lawson....what is more pathetic....people arguing over a stupid hat...or someone wasting his time telling people they are wasting their time?

I too am active duty and what you say about CAP is completely false.  The CAP cadet program does teach you a lot about the USAF and will help you out LATER in your career.  Many of the things you learned (or should have learned) as a cadet will be presented to you again when you go to Airman Leadership School, the NCO Academy and the Senior NCO Academy.

Does the USAF spend hours and hours arguing over ranger rolls?  NO....but neither does CAP......CAPTALK is neither CAP nor the USAF.  We are passionate about our subject matter and will talk your ear off....just like any bull session you may have in the barracks or at the E-Club.  That is all that we are doing here.....letting off steam.

[swya]

Lawson,im defending lord monar, cap does help you in the air force, in fact just a week ago a cadet from my squadron was accepted into the air force academy. also if youenlist with the mitchell award into the AF you will be an immediate e3 after basic so go ahead and believe your idea about cap and we'll believe our's

[Major Carrales]

Lawson,im defending lord monar, cap does help you in the air force, in fact just a week ago a cadet from my squadron was accepted into the air force academy. also if youenlist with the mitchell award into the AF you will be an immediate e3 after basic so go ahead and believe your idea about cap and we'll believe our's

Please do not unload on this Cadet, it is a choice that he makes to post here.  There is a tendency here to sometimes turn on our young.  I know it is a case of a 13 year old cadet posting advice to active duty USAF personnel, but do not hammer the point.

I do not know him, but I can see some post being made knocking this, what reads to me, to be a heartfelt point.  Someone dedicated to the idea of CAP.

Let us work to nurture those that come to these forums because they believe in CAP, especially when it is a cadet.

[swya]

thank you im sorry wont happen again

[desert rat]

When I was in Army OBC a few of the officers were wearing the ranger rolls.  A seargent came over to them and commenced to chewing them out.  He was passionate about this because he felt the officers did not deserve to wear a ranger roll because they had never gone through ranger training, and that disrespected the real rangers.  When I heard that explained to them I realized why traditions are made and what it means to people involved with those traditions.

There are no Army rangers in the AF or CAP.   To try and dress in their uniform tradition even though cool is disrespectful to them. 

I also have a small head and to wear most hats looks stupid, so I can agree that a ranger role makes it fit better, but that does not make it right to wear.

[shorning]

There are no Army rangers in the AF...

Well, that's not exactly true.  There are Air Force personnel that have been through the Ranger course.  It's not common, but they are out there.

[lordmonar]

There are no Army rangers in the AF...

Well, that's not exactly true.  There are Air Force personnel that have been through the Ranger course.  It's not common, but they are out there.

In addition...the SF guys that run the Silver Flag program out of Creech AFB do "ranger roll" their hats.  So...you can't say...CAP can't do it because the USAF doesn't do it.

I don't care one way or the other....if it's okay with your squadron/group/wing commander...then go with it.

BUT....if one guy in your unit does it....everyone should do it.  The "cool" factor does have it's place...but it needs to be controled.

[Stonewall]

Okay, okay, okay...I know this is like forever old, but I didn't want to start a new thread.  Maybe I should have.

I just found it interesting, while scanning through AFI 36-2903 (AF uniform manual) that it specifically says:

Headgear (BDU Cap) Mandatory

Squarely on the head with no hair protruding in front of the cap; when not
being worn, may be stowed in either of the lower cargo pockets on the
trousers. BDU caps required for all deployments, field training, mobility
exercises and recalls. Hat may not be pushed, rolled, folded or tucked in.
(e.g.; Ranger Fold) Plain without design.

It actually refers to "RANGER FOLD" in the AFI.  I'm impressed that they went so far as to call this out specifically.

[CadetProgramGuy]

FYI, Stonewall is referring to CAP National Boards 2006, Item 19, Point 4.

http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/2006_Aug_NB.pdf

"All members that attend the Blue Beret and national Hawk Mountain training can wear any awarded items that go on the uniform or the head gear with their BDUs, blue or green."

And it does't mention rolling either....

[Rotorhead]

you people seriously need to get a [darn] life.  I'll give you an active duty perspective.  A long time ago that is long since passed i was in the civil air patrol I'm active air force now and nothing you learn in CAP helps you in the Air Force i'm just letting you know now so if anyone is thinking about enlisting then don't go into basic or even to the recruiter's office thinking you're bad [mess] becuase you'll be brought down quickly and for christ's sakes find something better to talk about than your [darn] hat

I'd bet a lot of people hear think it is funny to hear an A1C trying to tell them about active duty, given that they were AD before you were even born.

[whatevah]

it's also funny seeing somebody reply to a 2 year old post, from a person who hasn't been back on the forum since the day he posted. 

[Rotorhead]

it's also funny seeing somebody reply to a 2 year old post, from a person who hasn't been back on the forum since the day he posted. 

True. 

[Gunner C]

it's also funny seeing somebody reply to a 2 year old post, from a person who hasn't been back on the forum since the day he posted. 

Let's just call it nostalgia.  :angel:

[Stonewall]

it's also funny seeing somebody reply to a 2 year old post, from a person who hasn't been back on the forum since the day he posted. 

True. 

Yeah, don't worry Scott, I too would love to have a talk with that disgruntled young A1C (probably SrA now) face to face.   I may even leave a piece for you to chew on.

[AlphaSigOU]

Take a number... and where are the baseball bats and 2X4s?