Ranger Roll

[CAP428]

BDU Cap: Either the USAF or Army style BDU cap or camouflage BDU baseball cap may be worn
with the BDU uniform. Senior members, cadet NCOs, and airmen do not wear any type of insignia
on the cap. Cadet officers wear the embroidered grade insignia centered 1/2 inch above the visor on
the BDU cap. Cap will not be worn crushed or rolled. Marine style BDU cap is not authorized.

This rolling of the BDU, often referred to as "ranger rolling," is prohibited per CAPM 39-1.  However, I recently heard somebody mention that this is only applicable to those BDU caps whose labels say "BDU cap" or something like that.  He went on to say that if the label said "Patrol cap," or "Ranger Hat," you may ranger roll your cap. I did not think that sounded right, but I decided to look into it.

I have one that says "Patrol cap" and my friend has one that says "ranger hat."  I wanted to ranger roll my hat, because without it it sits really, really tall on my head and the only other way to stop that is to pull it down farther, then obviously obstructing my view.  However, I have searched through CAPM 39-1, looked for any pertinent policy letters, googled the subject, searched the forum history here, and checked the CAP Knowledgebase......

....without finding any mention of being able to ranger roll in cases where it says "Patrol cap" or "Ranger hat."

However one could make the argument that because the section of 39-1 dealing with this issue specifically says "BDU cap", that the rule of not rolling the cap is only applicable to those caps that also specifically say "BDU cap" since 39-1 does not make any mention of it when referring to baseball-style hats.


What are your thoughts??

BTW my "Patrol" cap is made by the company PROPPER.

[MIKE]

  lol 

[AlphaSigOU]

YGBSM! That sounds like some pathetic way to get around the regs just so someone can sport a 'dog bowl' on their hat. Prepare for the wrath of the CAP uniform nazis. (Not me...)

Granted, there will be variations in the pattern. Some crowns may sit taller than others.

[CAP428]

Well, lemme rephrase it.  By "ranger rolling" I don't mean in some exaggerated fashion that some people do, to the extent that it is a "dog bowl" as you have called it.  I just mean crimping the top edges just a bit because I guess my hat is made a bit taller than some, and if I try to wear it comfortably while still having the top relatively flat, it ends up feeling and looking like it's about 3 miles high.


I'm not wanting to do it just to get around the regs or to "look cool."  Personally, I think those who ranger roll their cap to the extreme look ridiculous.


Perhaps a better way to ask this is, "Does anyone know a way a BDU cap won't sit so high on their head?"  Should I just look for a different brand or something?

Though I would still like the regs question answered, since I didn't think the guy was right when he said it int he first place.

BTW: MIKE, I don't know if you're laughing at the person who proposed the idea that you could ranger roll patrol caps, or at me for asking it, but I'm looking for actual answers if you have them;  feel free to jump in with constructive comments at any time.

[Joe Baker]

Warning: Prepare for flames by 39-1 nazis!
Hit the deck!

[lordmonar]

CAP428.

Just don't do it.

Don't look for loop holes....don't try to justify it.  If your cap does not look and feel right....get a standard issue BDU cap.

It's that simple.

[CAP428]

I'm not looking for loopholes.

Somebody made the suggestion to me and I didn't think it sounded like it was in reg.  So I was looking for answers, not loopholes.

It is a "standard issue" BDU cap, sold in an MCSS.  The only difference between it and some of my buddies' is the fact that it says "Patrol Cap" on the label and theirs says "BDU cap".  Other than that, they are identical, and it doesn't look any different when worn, other than mine sitting high.

[AlphaSigOU]

Well, lemme rephrase it.  By "ranger rolling" I don't mean in some exaggerated fashion that some people do, to the extent that it is a "dog bowl" as you have called it.  I just mean crimping the top edges just a bit because I guess my hat is made a bit taller than some, and if I try to wear it comfortably while still having the top relatively flat, it ends up feeling and looking like it's about 3 miles high.


I'm not wanting to do it just to get around the regs or to "look cool."  Personally, I think those who ranger roll their cap to the extreme look ridiculous.


Perhaps a better way to ask this is, "Does anyone know a way a BDU cap won't sit so high on their head?"  Should I just look for a different brand or something?

Though I would still like the regs question answered, since I didn't think the guy was right when he said it int he first place.

BTW: MIKE, I don't know if you're laughing at the person who proposed the idea that you could ranger roll patrol caps, or at me for asking it, but I'm looking for actual answers if you have them.

Basically, the patrol cap is designed with a high cut. This same pattern cap was sported by the late General Matthew Ridgway in the 1950s and it was starched stiff. After the cap became associated with Fidel Castro, the Army ditched it for the OD green ballcap. It made its unstarched comeback with Vietnam jungle fatigues and the BDU.

The way I look at it - and I apologize for sounding unnecessarily harsh in my previous post - as long as the cap doesn't look like it's suffered through 50-mission crush or has a serious case of 'dog bowl' it's OK in my book. If I remember correctly the winter patrol cap sits taller to accomodate the ear flaps, while the summer weight patrol cap has a little shorter crown.

[CAP428]

Basically, the patrol cap is designed with a high cut. This same pattern cap was sported by the late General Matthew Ridgway in the 1950s and it was starched stiff. After the cap became associated with Fidel Castro, the Army ditched it for the OD green ballcap. It made its unstarched comeback with Vietnam jungle fatigues and the BDU.

The way I look at it - and I apologize for sounding unnecessarily harsh in my previous post - as long as the cap doesn't look like it's suffered through 50-mission crush or has a serious case of 'dog bowl' it's OK in my book. If I remember correctly the winter patrol cap sits taller to accomodate the ear flaps, while the summer weight patrol cap has a little shorter crown.

Thank you.  That's what I wanted to know.

[mikeylikey]

Even in the army you will hear the NCO's tell soldiers to remove their "ranger roll" if they didn't go through ranger school.  Different point, those HAWK Mountain goofs should not roll their orange ball caps.  Looks ridiculous.

[CAP428]

Different point, those HAWK Mountain goofs should not roll their orange ball caps.  Looks ridiculous.

I agree there especially.  I think rolled ball caps look the worst.  And I don't really see a practical reason there, because ball caps fit so close to the head.

[TankerT]

So... does this still mean I can Ranger Roll my beret?

[CAP428]

Ha!  I doubt that would fly.  I guess you could try!    If all else fails, you could put some nachos and dip inside it and let people eat out of your nacho-hat "a la Homer". 

[RiverAux]

Does anyone have a photo of exactly what sort of "rolling" we're saying isn't kosher? 

[Guardrail]

I found a forum thread at www.military.com that suggests the Ranger Roll may not be authorized in the Army.

Link: http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/80019858/m/9760096970001

[CAP428]

Does anyone have a photo of exactly what sort of "rolling" we're saying isn't kosher? 

I did a google image search, but came up with nothing.  I'll try to takesome pics of my own and post them here tomorrow.

[shorning]

What are your thoughts??

Buy a hat that fits.

[CAP428]

What are your thoughts??

Buy a hat that fits.

It does fit.  It's just too tall.  You don't size a hat for its height.

Anyway, I think you guys are missing the point.  While I was partly wondering about my hat situation, the real question was wether the person that told me a ranger roll was authorized for caps other than those which specifically say "BDU cap" was correct, or if they were simply bending a regulation in a way that was unintended under 39-1.

That is the real question.

[lordmonar]

What are your thoughts??

Buy a hat that fits.

It does fit.  It's just too tall.  You don't size a hat for its height.

Those two terms are mutually exclusive.

Go back and by a standard issue BDU cap.    That is "CAP, Hot Weather"  NSN: 8415-01-393-xxxx (the last 4 will be different depending on size).

Just because something is sold at clothing sales does not make it standard issue.

Anyway, I think you guys are missing the point.  While I was partly wondering about my hat situation, the real question was wether the person that told me a ranger roll was authorized for caps other than those which specifically say "BDU cap" was correct, or if they were simply bending a regulation in a way that was unintended under 39-1.
That is the real question.

Sure....it meant the camouflaged had that goes with the BDU's....not the squadron ball cap or the beret (the only other two authorized hats in BDUs AFAIK).

But if you go out and buy an after market "patrol cap" or "map cap" or any other "not really a BDU cap...but looks like a BDU cap" it is still a BDU cap and cannot be rolled or crushed.  So your friend was wrong.

[CAP428]

it is still a BDU cap and cannot be rolled or crushed.  So your friend was wrong.

...and THAT'S the answer I was looking for.  Thank you.