Stop me if you've heard this one before: "We need you to become the squadron commander or else we'll have to shut the squadron down."


The job is one of those where consistently the only way to get people into the job is this type of coercion.

How do we instead get people to think about becoming the squadron commander instead as a net positive for their CAP experience?

Eliminate all the reports, paperwork (busywork), that take up all their time so they have little time left for the "positive experience" you mention? 

Quote from: etodd on July 14, 2021, 01:43:39 AMEliminate all the reports, paperwork (busywork), that take up all their time so they have little time left for the "positive experience" you mention? 

That's why you have a squadron staff, so they can do their one or two reports so the Commander is free to"command".

Maybe design a ribbon, or a badge, or maybe after a year or so automatically promote them?

As it happens, this is like one of my missions in life (figuring out why no one ever wants to raise their hand to volunteer for command).

Command in CAP definitely has a bad reputation. Everyone assumes it's awful, and it certainly can be. It also takes, in the immortal words of Liam Neeson, a very particular set of skills. And a willingness to learn those skills if you didn't come by them elsewhere.

Being *just* a squadron commander isn't really all that bad. Being a squadron commander with a shoestring staff where you're actually wearing six other hats... that is a lot more bad. Hence Phil's comment about staff.

But again, nothing inherent in CAP's culture teaches people how to build and use a staff. And if you've never had to recruit, train, hire, fire, etc. outside of CAP, you may have no idea where to begin.

Just spitballing here on some things we can do better:

- Making new people feel welcome and supported from the get-go, so they're more eager to participate. Not "you're PAO now, and I have no idea what that means, but go figure it out". That's a nonstarter.

- Actually scheduling and holding 1-1 mentoring discussions. Don't just assign a mentor on paper, put an invite on their calendar and meet with them regularly.

- Teach people how to identify "high potentials" early -- people who could be future primary staff officers, deputies, and commanders -- and learn how to nurture them rather than burning them out or otherwise scaring them away.

- Publicly celebrate our commanders. I know a lot of servant leaders eschew the limelight, but we need to make sure people know there are good aspects to command, and it's not just thankless drudgery.

- Teach how to have uncomfortable conversations. I don't know why this isn't in SCC, and it wasn't in UCC. How many big leadership issues began as small leadership issues that no one wanted to address because it was awkward and uncomfortable and easier to ignore?

- Put some nuance into the "they're just volunteers" mentality. I have the same expectations for my volunteer colleagues that I have for my colleagues at my paying job. The only real difference is the timeliness -- I know we're all doing CAP on nights and weekends and I know projects and tasks will take longer in volunteerland than they otherwise would if we were doing this 9-5. But that's not an excuse for poor performance, and again, sometimes difficult conversations, and expectations resets, and counseling, and relieving of duty assignments occurs. Even with volunteers.

Quote from: GroundHawg on July 14, 2021, 11:34:30 AMMaybe design a ribbon, or a badge, or maybe after a year or so automatically promote them?

Both the badge and already exist.

Quote from: GroundHawg on July 14, 2021, 11:34:30 AMMaybe design a ribbon, or a badge, or maybe after a year or so automatically promote them?

I feel like this is tongue-in-cheek since these all exist already; however, it isn't enough.

I've been in multiple squadrons the last 19 years from Louisiana to Pennsylvania and back to Texas. A common theme with many squadrons outside of large urban centers is a lack of active senior staff. Yes, you can (and should) recruit. Yes, you can (and should) mentor and train. But a lot of squadrons at any given time have about 2-5 people actually doing all the work the squadron needs, and it's quite often a full time second job. A reduction of reports/suspenses and file-keeping requirements would have made my life as squadron commander much less miserable so that I could focus on actually running the squadron. That being said, once you figure it out (since I had to learn as I went), the next year would have been much smoother (I moved out of state for work). And I put a system in place for my successor to utilize for a smooth transition.

After my experience, I will not take another command before retirement (20+ years from now) unless there is already an active staff and SUI compliance is solid.

Quote from: PHall on July 14, 2021, 02:01:07 AM

Quote from: etodd on July 14, 2021, 01:43:39 AMEliminate all the reports, paperwork (busywork), that take up all their time so they have little time left for the "positive experience" you mention? 

That's why you have a squadron staff, so they can do their one or two reports so the Commander is free to"command".

I was lucky enough to actually have some semblance of a squadron staff WIWASC, but that probably only applied to mine and maybe one other squadron out of about 12 in our wing at the time.

Quote from: Pace on July 14, 2021, 03:24:36 PMSelective quoting and comments:

But a lot of squadrons at any given time have about 2-5 people actually doing all the work the squadron needs, and it's quite often a full time second job - exactly my experience as well.

 A reduction of reports/suspenses and file-keeping requirements would have made my life as squadron commander much less miserable so that I could focus on actually running the squadron. That would help but so would more staff paying attention.  Life on small units that, as Pace noted, are outside of urban areas is very difficult.  Same workload and demonstrably smaller staff.  Never again.


After my experience, I will not take another command before retirement (20+ years from now) unless there is already an active staff and SUI compliance is solid. - Likewise but, in reality, I will not consider a command role for any reason. 

What I've seen is that when there is a great staff the squadron commander role can be easier but what happens in many cases is they cannot fill key job and commanders must do a lot.

Also at every level of the organization there are people who make extra work and treat it like an additional job. This is a volunteer organization and should be treated as such.

FWIW my opinion is we ought to have PAID staff support. The BSA model works.

Quote from: JohhnyD on July 15, 2021, 05:23:34 PMFWIW my opinion is we ought to have PAID staff support. The BSA model works.

Works for the BSA. At the Council level, and I think District.

There are no paid staff members at the local Pack/Troop level.

Something I'll mention since we're getting a bit away from my question of incentivization:

Many people here have made comments about how to make the job less soul-sucking. This is good.

I'll even say that our last SUI was the shortest and most painless SUI yet.

But that doesn't change the fact that we need to make the job something people WANT to do.

Yes, we get a pin and ribbon for doing the job. I think we need more than that. I'm not suggesting a bronze watch or a sword or anything necessarily tangible, but we need to make it more approachable and interesting.

My path to command in many ways was an aberration. I went from Cyberpatriot Coach and IT Officer to Deputy Commander of Seniors to Deputy Commander to Commander. I had informally a mentor every step of the way (informally because I had to wait over a year for someone to hit the button to enroll me in the command track.)

It was a job I actually wanted to do, primarily to give back to the org that helped me quite a bit as a cadet.

For those without such a history and highly self-motivated and surrounded by people willing to help them succeed I don't see that I would have gotten there without the coercion that so many others have received.
So, back to my question:

How do we get people to wake up in the morning and think "Gosh, I want to be a squadron commander!"

What are some SMART goals that can be implemented at the local level within current regs that get us to that desired end state even if the squadron is at minimum staff?

Quote from: NIN on July 15, 2021, 07:02:26 PM

Quote from: JohhnyD on July 15, 2021, 05:23:34 PMFWIW my opinion is we ought to have PAID staff support. The BSA model works.

Works for the BSA. At the Council level, and I think District.

There are no paid staff members at the local Pack/Troop level.

And the BSA has many, many more units (troops, packs, patrols and dens) then CAP has ever had. They need full time paid help at the District and Council level.

Quote from: NIN on July 15, 2021, 07:02:26 PM

Quote from: JohhnyD on July 15, 2021, 05:23:34 PMFWIW my opinion is we ought to have PAID staff support. The BSA model works.

Works for the BSA. At the Council level, and I think District.

There are no paid staff members at the local Pack/Troop level.

Yep. It works. And we ought to put that on the table.

Quote from: PHall on July 16, 2021, 01:07:45 AM

Quote from: NIN on July 15, 2021, 07:02:26 PM

Quote from: JohhnyD on July 15, 2021, 05:23:34 PMFWIW my opinion is we ought to have PAID staff support. The BSA model works.

Works for the BSA. At the Council level, and I think District.

There are no paid staff members at the local Pack/Troop level.

And the BSA has many, many more units (troops, packs, patrols and dens) then CAP has ever had. They need full time paid help at the District and Council level.

We need that help at the Wing/Region and often Group level.

Quote from: PHall on July 14, 2021, 02:01:07 AM

Quote from: etodd on July 14, 2021, 01:43:39 AMEliminate all the reports, paperwork (busywork), that take up all their time so they have little time left for the "positive experience" you mention? 

That's why you have a squadron staff, so they can do their one or two reports so the Commander is free to"command".

Normally, when conditions are "We need someone to step up or we shut down," there isn't a functional staff of senior members. It's a doomed recipe.

As pointed out by others, life in rural areas away from the urban population make for the same duties and responsibilities with far less staff members to execute them. This issue is greatly enhanced by the fact that people have certain desires within a unit that may not be able to provide them without a larger staff.

Take a unit that has four active senior members and fifteen active cadets. That's a full time job for each senior. In comes someone who wants to get involved in Emergency Services, and the response is "Go get training here for your Ground Team rating...and we need to get your Level 1 done." And none of the senior staff can dedicate time to help this person get trained and get educated. There's no squadron ES program; there's no squadron E&T program; there's no senior development in that unit. Throw in the "I know you want to do GT training, but I really need you to do Admin and Logistics, too." That persons feels overwhelmed and overburdened for someone who wanted to get into SAR Team stuff.

An interesting scenario that I had was a member who asked me "Where do you need me?" I replied with "What do you want get involved in? What do you want to stay away from?" They said, "That doesn't matter. Put me where you need me." I said, "It matters. If I put you somewhere that you aren't happy, it's going to burn you out and cause a morale issue. Sure, I have tasks that I need done, and maybe you can help with those. But I also need you to be happy in this organization and do some of the things that you're comfortable with doing and that you'll find enjoyment in. So what are you interested in?"

Squadrons have to be very careful not to over expand beyond their capabilities to manage the administrative and support staff functions that supports that operation, but it comes with the tradeoff that you don't get to do everything that everyone wants to do who comes in the door. And it can make recruiting extremely difficult.

Expect your time in command to be extremely busy. But it can be extremely fulfilling as well if you can handle the project oversight and watch the unit move forward to more successes.

What we really need to teach new commanders, however, is project management: how to actually command people from a leadership principle, and how to oversee and direct task assignments and timelines. A lot of people become a squadron commander without ever having overseen a real corporate-style project or operations system, and they're completely dysfunctional in that role.

I had a squadron commander early on who was an absolutely great guy; fun to talk with; high energy. Zero organizational skills; wouldn't read up on regulations; everything was "We don't need to get that detailed in this plan, let's just do it." Activities sounded great, but in the execution they were chaotic and mismanaged, and really discouraged people from wanting to do it again. The well-intention was there. But you can't manage a corporation, let alone an operational mission, in that fashion. He lasted just about a year before he stepped down, and it crushed him to have to say "I can't do it." I wish he was still in CAP; he was one of the best Public Affairs guys and recruiters I ever saw. But in no way should this person be in charge of a unit without some additional education to back it up.

TL/DR Version:
Making the job sexy isn't going to fix the issue. Development and building up people make it much easier to actually take the job. Picture it being a case where someone says "No, it's great; they do a fantastic job of helping you out and answering all of your questions along the way. You don't have to be scared." --- That's how you bring in people and retain them.

Quote from: JohhnyD on July 16, 2021, 01:18:55 AMYep. It works. And we ought to put that on the table.

While I don't disagree that you might add some "constancy" with this, throwing money and a paid employee at something doesn't always "fix" the issue. It often just changes the dynamic.

Quote from: NIN on July 16, 2021, 04:29:38 PM

Quote from: JohhnyD on July 16, 2021, 01:18:55 AMYep. It works. And we ought to put that on the table.

While I don't disagree that you might add some "constancy" with this, throwing money and a paid employee at something doesn't always "fix" the issue. It often just changes the dynamic.

I am not advocating "throwing money", I am advocating using the BSA model to include a higher proportion of paid staff.

Quote from: JohhnyD on July 16, 2021, 05:39:09 PM

Quote from: NIN on July 16, 2021, 04:29:38 PM

Quote from: JohhnyD on July 16, 2021, 01:18:55 AMYep. It works. And we ought to put that on the table.

While I don't disagree that you might add some "constancy" with this, throwing money and a paid employee at something doesn't always "fix" the issue. It often just changes the dynamic.

I am not advocating "throwing money", I am advocating using the BSA model to include a higher proportion of paid staff.

Not sure about BSA where you are, but here we pay $150 a year directly to the council per Scout, and was just informed it's going up in the fall, so my Pack alone is sending a few thousand a year to council, multiplied by a few hundred packs/troops that the council services, means they can afford a council building and paid staffers. Compare that to the average Group with 5 or 6 Squadrons, averaging 20-30 members each, how much would we have to raise yearly dues to compensate a small paid group staff and office space? I agree it would be a nice thing to have, but economically I don't think it would be feasible for CAP.