Cadet to SM processing times

Started by airbatic, August 20, 2018, 09:59:36 PM

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PHall

Quote from: MSG Mac on August 21, 2018, 04:03:49 AM
Now that level III has been a requirement for Captain for four years, when do you think National will make Spaatzen 1Lt's, instead of captain? or will they give them Level III?

They probably don't even know they have a conflict in the regulations yet.

bjf_55

I helped a Spaatz Cadet with this process last year. He turned 21 at the end of February and he submitted all of his paperwork including his senior application, fingerprint card, letter requesting LV1, LV2, Cadet Programs Senior Rating, SLS, Yeager and promotion request right away. His approved senior status (as apposed to patron status) came first in March, all of the LV1, LV2 and connected courses came in at the end of April and the promotion to Capt at the beginning of June. Hope this helps with the timeline it seems to take to get everything processed with National and through the chain of command. 

Eclipse

#22
Quote from: MSG Mac on August 21, 2018, 04:03:49 AM
Now that level III has been a requirement for Captain for four years, when do you think National will make Spaatzen 1Lt's, instead of captain? or will they give them Level III?

An interesting dilemma - there's no way the average Spaatz cadet has the experience or has done the work to
pencil-whip Level III, which would also include waiving 2 conferences, which would be a very sore point
for all those who have had to endure a sleepy rubber chicken at the Airport Ramada Inn.

Even Level II at this point is a bit much.
For every Triple-Diamond that is cadet of the year, there's 10-20 who just rode the minimums and
punched their ticket, not that doing that is a small matter, but like the Eagle in the BSA, you can
quietly participate in relatively unexciting ways and get the same award.  No unit leadership roles,
no staff service (though that recently changed to a degree), just come to meetings hit 1 encampments
and a coupe of NCSAs as a participant, not staff.

A more appropriate course, considering the raised expectations, would be to confer Captain to
dark-siding cadets as a Brevet grade, with an appropriate amount of time (4 years?)to catch-up the PD
to the requisite level, dropping back to 1st Lt if they don't.  This would allow for those top-performers
to continue to contribute to the organization at their high level, while not just giving away the railroad
tracks to those who decide not to play CAP anymore.

I would also say that the dark-siding needs to be immediate, vs. lapsing membership and coming back in
5-10 years and wanting railroad tracks based on Spaatz.  An unbroken membership at least insinuate continued
participation and relatively currency in the program.

There should be no mistake that taking the time out as an adult to achieve LIII is a completely different proposition
then going to RCLS or COS, etc., as an adolescent.  Not to mention fulfilling the responsibilities of a staff
role(s) at the senior level requires more effort as an adult, and that the staff service in question
isn't even a requirement for cadets to attain Spaatz.

I've never understood why the PD level is conferred on Spaatz cadets - the grade, whatever, but
PD is supposed to be a vetted reflection of experience, and Spaatz cadets do not demonstrate that
experience through an SDA.

Leaving things as-is will also not quash the under-30 year old Lt Cols, but will potentially engender
a little hostility or jealousy from those seasoned members who worked for 15-20 years only to have the
rules changed and see Lt Col become an unattainable goal because of NSC, while those young whipper-snappers
who still have more flexibility are able to get there, and may well get preferential selection for the limited
slots because they are viewed as "the future".


"That Others May Zoom"

NIN

Just remember that all of this is "exception processing" in that these equivalencies don't happen automagically in eservices. There's no "Oh, look,  a Mitchell | Earhart | Eaker | Spaatz in the record, flip this bit over here.."


Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

GaryVC

We have a now former cadet who got his Spaatz in February and aged out about a week later. After submitting the form through the squadron commander twice and handing it to the wing commander about 3 weeks ago he was finally promoted a few days ago. He has not received any of the other "benefits" as yet. Since he is going into his final year at West Point we don't  see him very often.

Luis R. Ramos

Nin-

Automagically? Not automatically?

Is that a new word?

I like what it implies!
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer

s.cap

I've not posted more than a few words on these forums and it is my hope that this is helpful to those wondering how to get this done.

My experience with this came as I attempted to figure out how to get this done for myself.

What I discovered after as few years of watching the forums and asking the questions was:

(apologies for not abbreviating)

CAPR 50-17 Chapter 9 Sections a & b,
Quote
CHAPTER 9 - SPECIAL RECOGINITION PROGRAMS

9-1. Special Recognition Programs for Prior Cadets. Achievements that were earned as a CAP cadet may be applied to fulfill Senior Member Professional Development Program credit(s). This applies to all senior members who earned certain achievements as former cadets, regardless of the dates of their cadet memberships. These achievements are explained below:

a. Credit will be awarded to former cadets based on specific accomplishments. Those members who earned the Mitchell Award and have a less than two-year break in service may receive credit for Level I completion. Members who earned the Earhart Award may receive the technician rating in the Cadet Programs Officer specialty track. Members who have earned the Eaker Award may be awarded completion of SLS, the CAP Officer Basic Course, and Level II. In addition to Level II completion, members who earned the Spaatz Award may be awarded the senior rating in the Cadet Programs Officer specialty track and the Yeager Award.

b. Official recognition of these achievements will be awarded on an individual basis. Former cadets who qualify for these awards should submit a written request, approved by their commander, to NHQ/DPR to have the member's permanent record updated to reflect the appropriate equivalency as described above and issuance of the Yeager Award, if applicable. If completion of required cadet accomplishments is not already a part of the member's permanent record, then supporting documentation must be attached to the request.

I now just send a email to LMMEFORMS@capnhq.gov with an attached PDF memorandum: (printed with permission of Capt Holberton)



A week later we get the Davis in the mail and the record reflects the appropriate levels.

I've done this successfully with 3 former cadets now although I confess getting the PD awards back-dated has never happened.  Get this done quickly on the squadron side.

Sending in the form 2's, for a Section 2, is a bit more challenging.  Commanders at all echelons have become accustom to clicking on pending approvals in eServices.  To my knowledge there is no way to request special promotions for former cadets within eServices.  I would suggest some polite hand-holding on processing the form 2's from group through wing.

Good luck!

Eclipse

Definitely a good example - always make sure whoever you are asking to do something has
all the information in one place.  Radar would be proud.

With that said, and something not mentioned here yet is that each echelon is required to have the
respective promotion board consider the promotion, even for a Spaatz.  That can be perfunctory,
but it's still supposed to be done, so for a Captain that's at least two boards that would delay the process.


"That Others May Zoom"

CAP_truth

I would forward to wing along with CAPF2 via chain of command for wing commander's signature for promotion to Capt. Wing cam forward all paperwork so everything can be added at one time.
Cadet CoP
Wilson

Spam



"Radar would be proud" indeed!

... HEY, I know these guys!

<grin>
Spam



Spam



PS, hey NHQ/DA:  does anyone spell check the draft regulations before sending out the smooth copies for signature? 

Ref: "CAPR 50-17 4 JUNE 2015
CHAPTER 9 - SPECIAL RECOGINITION PROGRAMS"

(Saving that one to my CAP publication error check file... the best one yet was the "Aerospace '81" cadet AE book that claimed that the north magnetic pole was centered on a large mass of magnetic rock buried in central Canada, presumably festooned with lost prospector pickaxes, Wolverine Adamantium skeletons, and crashed aircraft hulls).


Cheers
Spam




airbatic

OP here with an update: NHQ got his PD records updated yesterday. Promotion to Captain is still pending. Fancy that - the system actually works!

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: airbatic on August 22, 2018, 07:24:17 AM
OP here with an update: NHQ got his PD records updated yesterday. Promotion to Captain is still pending. Fancy that - the system actually works!

Maybe they read the board  ;)

PHall

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on August 22, 2018, 03:26:57 PM
Quote from: airbatic on August 22, 2018, 07:24:17 AM
OP here with an update: NHQ got his PD records updated yesterday. Promotion to Captain is still pending. Fancy that - the system actually works!

Maybe they read the board  ;)

Or the fact that things need to happen in a set sequence.