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"Are We Better Off?"

Started by raivo, September 14, 2012, 05:39:13 PM

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Woodsy

Quote from: LGM30GMCC on September 16, 2012, 03:22:10 PM
Quote from: Woodsy on September 15, 2012, 11:59:46 PM


This organization needs to get a letter from CAP legal ASAP.  Regardless of CAP's stance (or non-stance) on the issue at hand, this type of thing has the potential to create a negative public opinion of CAP to the vast majority of Americans.  It needs to be removed and retracted.

Um. The vast majority of Americans? I think the fact it was repealed shows that there was support for these folks. And while some in the military may not like that DADT was, in fact, repealed, overall it had little impact on a large number of us.

I went through what was supposed to be about 1-2 hrs of computer based training (ok ok, it took 15 minutes. I read the highlights. 'Can't discriminate on hiring/firing whatever based on sexual orientation. Add it to the race pile. Because of DOMA, the military can't grant recognition to same-sex unions. So noted. Now, back to studying for my tests/evaluations.'

Or do you mean CAP being involved in a political issue at all. Just our existence can upset people and the fact that we had no clear stance one way or the other (which was risky). Technically, unless I missed something (and someone please correct me if I did!) we still don't really. There was a debate about this on Captalk some time ago. Best I can see is for us to follow the military example.

CAP welcomes all who are ready and able to serve to our ranks.  CAP should not be involved in any way in the homosexual debate. We're out of it, period.  Which is why these guys should be getting a call from CAP legal saying "don't use our name."   This has nothing to do with DADT.  This has to do with not obtaining proper permissions and exploiting CAP's image and cadets for that organizations gain on a very touch subject which has the potential to cause damage to CAP's image. 

Майор Хаткевич

They didn't use our name. Chances are, the only way to KNOW they are CAP, is to already know about CAP.

Extremepredjudice

#42
Looks to be 'shopped.




Edit: I went and found the original.



Image information:

QuoteFile
File Type   JPEG
MIME Type   image/jpeg
Comment   *
Image Width   800
Image Height   800
Encoding Process   Progressive DCT, Huffman coding
Bits Per Sample   8
Color Components   3
Y Cb Cr Sub Sampling   YCbCr4:2:0 (2 2)
JFIF
JFIF Version   1.02
Resolution Unit   None
X Resolution   1
Y Resolution   1
ICC_Profile
Profile CMM Type   lcms
Profile Version   2.1.0
Profile Class   Display Device Profile
Color Space Data   RGB
Profile Connection Space   XYZ
Profile Date Time   2012:01:25 03:41:57
Profile File Signature   acsp
Primary Platform   Apple Computer Inc.
CMM Flags   Not Embedded, Independent
Device Manufacturer   
Device Model   
Device Attributes   Reflective, Glossy, Positive, Color
Rendering Intent   Perceptual
Connection Space Illuminant   0.9642 1 0.82491
Profile Creator   lcms
Profile ID   0
Profile Description   c2
Profile Copyright   FB
Media White Point   0.9642 1 0.82491
Media Black Point   0.01205 0.0125 0.01031
Red Matrix Column   0.43607 0.22249 0.01392
Green Matrix Column   0.38515 0.71687 0.09708
Blue Matrix Column   0.14307 0.06061 0.7141
Red Tone Reproduction Curve   (Binary data 64 bytes)
Green Tone Reproduction Curve   (Binary data 64 bytes)
Blue Tone Reproduction Curve   (Binary data 64 bytes)
Composite
Image Size   800x800

Conclusion: Make/model information is missing. Indicating photoshop. The image was also sharpened using photoshop.
I love the moderators here. <3

Hanlon's Razor
Occam's Razor
"Flight make chant; I good leader"

Eclipse

You didn't find the "original" unless cameras now take photos with poster text and embedded logos.

Stripped image tags don't mean it was shopped, either - people routinely remove EXIF data for privacy concerns.
Even resizing a photo can strip that information, and a lot of social services do that by default now as well.

One only needs to look at the hair on the women to see this likely wasn't shopped, at least not by someone
without pretty sophisticated skills and more time then something like this would be worth.

Two people with an agenda took a photo with two cadets.  Neither probably had a clue about the other.

It's not illegal, NHQ's not going to C&D the poster, and it wouldn't matter anyway since it's now part of the background noise.

Move on.

"That Others May Zoom"

Extremepredjudice

QuoteYou didn't find the "original" unless cameras now take photos with poster text and embedded logos.
I meant the one from facebook without the cadet's name tapes blacked out.

I can tell you with certainty that it was edited in photoshop. Someone sharpened the image with PS's sharpen tool.

I love the moderators here. <3

Hanlon's Razor
Occam's Razor
"Flight make chant; I good leader"

Eclipse

Yes, when they made the "poster"...

"That Others May Zoom"

Garibaldi

Quote from: usafaux2004 on September 16, 2012, 04:23:08 PM
They didn't use our name. Chances are, the only way to KNOW they are CAP, is to already know about CAP.

So, the Civil Air Patrol tapes over the pockets are invisible? NOT.

Someone sees this picture, sees BDUs with Civil Air Patrol on them. They wonder "Hm. I thought the military was wearing those new uniforms. Who are these kids and what is Civil Air Patrol?" They Google it. They tell some of their liberal friends that they saw a cool picture on Facebook and that this Civil Air thingy supports DADT and such. Which is not true, because despite internal politics, we are an apolitical organization and as such cannot publicly state support for political candidates, organizations or causes.
Still a major after all these years.
ES dude, leadership ossifer, publik affaires
Opinionated and wrong 99% of the time about all things

Ned

Quote from: Eclipse on September 16, 2012, 04:48:46 PM
NHQ's not going to C&D the poster.

Actually, we are.  The letter should go out to SEIU on Monday.

Personally, I think we have an obligation to protect the cadets (as well as the corporation) from unconsented political use.

I would tend to agree that folks at SEIU who created and/or approved the poster simply did not understand that the cadets in the picture were likely middle or high school students who are not in the military.  Given that embarrassing fact, my guess is that they would have taken it down in any event.

Ned Lee

Critical AOA

I am in agreement that we need to protect both the cadets and the organization from any harm. However, I wonder how many on here are more offended by the actual message on the poster rather than the legal aspects of using a person / organizations image without permission.  Would all of you who are up in arms be as strenuous in your objecting if the t-shirts and poster bore a message more to your liking? 
"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."   - George Bernard Shaw

manfredvonrichthofen

Quote from: David Vandenbroeck on September 16, 2012, 10:51:09 PM
I am in agreement that we need to protect both the cadets and the organization from any harm. However, I wonder how many on here are more offended by the actual message on the poster rather than the legal aspects of using a person / organizations image without permission.  Would all of you who are up in arms be as strenuous in your objecting if the t-shirts and poster bore a message more to your liking?
It doesn't matter the message, advertising using cadets is unacceptable, without consent of CAP, and the cadets parents.

Garibaldi

They could be advertising pink and purple unicorns that poop gold and it wouldn't matter. The point is, the cadets in question may or may not have been duped into furthering a political agenda, and surely the parents and their CC had no knowledge of this beforehand. So, no. Regardless of the message, this was plain and simply wrong.

That's the issue. Not the message.
Still a major after all these years.
ES dude, leadership ossifer, publik affaires
Opinionated and wrong 99% of the time about all things

Go_Blue

I don't understand the point of the poster being made at all.  For most of us in the Armed Forces, the repeal of DADT has been a complete non-issue.  It's had zero effect on my shop.  I suspect some sort of outside group who doesn't see the day-to-day (non) impact probably still feels they have to prove the repeal's value, and felt this was the appropriate way to do it.

Cadets and CAP staff need to be educated to keep their heads on a swivel in instances such as this.  An air show environment will naturally call for picture requests, but you don't have to honor them.  Plus, obviously political t-shirts should be noted and taken into consideration here.  Having that kind of SA is part of wearing any kind of uniform these days.

Flying Pig

People can always get their picture with if they want to in public. Whether you choose to is different. I highly doubt the average cadet is going to refuse a photo with anyone while working at an airshow. I was at a static display once with our helicopter and some dirtbag retard with a "F--K COPS" tshirt on actuay wanted to pose with me next to the helo. I just laughed but that didnt stop him from posing with the aircraft where his girlfriend took a pictiure of him flipping off the Sheriffs badge on the helicopter.  And Id imagine Im probably in a photo or two in his FB page as well.  Honestly if I was at an airshow and these people wanted to pose with me, Id do it and move on.  If it ever came back around as this photo did, i just say "I posed with 100 people that day. Im not a dress code monitor in junior high".

Garibaldi

Quote from: Flying Pig on September 17, 2012, 04:27:42 PM
People can always get their picture with if they want to in public. Whether you choose to is different. I highly doubt the average cadet is going to refuse a photo with anyone while working at an airshow. I was at a static display once with our helicopter and some dirtbag retard with a "F--K COPS" tshirt on actuay wanted to pose with me next to the helo. I just laughed but that didnt stop him from posing with the aircraft where his girlfriend took a pictiure of him flipping off the Sheriffs badge on the helicopter.  And Id imagine Im probably in a photo or two in his FB page as well.  Honestly if I was at an airshow and these people wanted to pose with me, Id do it and move on.  If it ever came back around as this photo did, i just say "I posed with 100 people that day. Im not a dress code monitor in junior high".

Yeah, but I assume you're over 18 and able to make your own decisions without parental input.
Still a major after all these years.
ES dude, leadership ossifer, publik affaires
Opinionated and wrong 99% of the time about all things