Firearms Training Guidelines

[Captain St. Clair]

Good morning!

Our squadron has been cleared for firearms training and we are planning on doing so in the very near future.  While we have been cleared by Wing, NHQ, etc.  I am still looking for guidance on how to score and award shooting medals.  Additionally, where can I find the shooting medals?  I looked on Vanguard but cannot find them. 

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!

[Eclipse]

You can't.

It has to be an NRA approved program and instructor, which is the only program that can award medals.

CAP members are not allowed to do this directly.

Search this site in regards to the medals, there is considerable disagreement as to whether the ones currently offered are approved for wear.  They come from the NRA, not CAP or Vanguard.

How did you get "approved" for firearms training without already knowing this, since the Wing CC has to approve it directly and it has to be an NRA or other outside program?

[Captain St. Clair]

It is easy to get "approved" for it is you do the paperwork for the HAA.  The HAA paperwork is submitted to wing for the wing commanders approval, then you must apply to NHQ for the insurance certificate.  You do not have to be an NRA instructor to do this HAA in CAP.  You can also be a military firearms instructor. 

Thanks for your "friendly" reply.  I appreciate the "help".

[Captain St. Clair]

Please consult the HAA guidelines found in CAPR 52-16.  I've done my homework correctly, just trying to solve the mystery of the badge.  If anyone else has information or has badges for sale, please let me know.  I would greatly appreciate it.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Uh huh, and Eclipse is still correct.

[The Infamous Meerkat]

Heres the thing, You may be cleared to do firearms training and hold an event, but there are no awards for it. That little bit is left over from way back in the day when the NRA used to award medals for youth shooting, and it hasn't been adjusted out yet. You can conduct all the training you like, I would because shooting is great! Just know that there won't be any awards being issued no matter whether its NRA sanctioned or not, because the same programs that used to award the shooting medals no longer exist (at least to my understanding).

Consider this, I can't even wear my 3rd Award Expert badge from the Marine Corps... they've been moving away from firearms for a long time now.

[The Infamous Meerkat]

Well, I looked on the NRA page and they say they still do it, but I'm not sure what massive hoops you'd have to jump through to get it done...

[Captain St. Clair]

Thanks for the heads up and the information.  I have a good friend that is also an NRA instructor that has agreed to help us out.  We can sanction the match and award the appropriate badges.  Should be a good time.

[Eclipse]

Please consult the HAA guidelines found in CAPR 52-16.  I've done my homework correctly, just trying to solve the mystery of the badge.  If anyone else has information or has badges for sale, please let me know.  I would greatly appreciate it.

Please consult the section of 52-16 in regards to firearms training, specifically.  Firearms training is not an "HAA".

b. Firearm Training. Cadets may participate in firearm training if the wing commander approves the training facility and sponsoring personnel or agency in advance and in writing. For additional guidance, see August 2012 CAPR 900-3 Firearms - Assistance to Law Enforcement Officials 15 Aug 2012. Training must be sponsored and supervised by military personnel qualified as range officers or range safety officers; local law enforcement officers qualified as firearms instructors; or National Rifle Association, National Skeet Shooting Association, or Amateur Trap Shooting Association firearms instructors.

CAP members are not allowed to provide the training.

It isn't done at CAP facilities and CAP does not award any badges.

"You" are not allowed to sanction the training or award anything.  This is the coordination of an activity provided
by some other organization, whether it's military, law enforcement, or NRA training.

[a2capt]

..and the current regulation on the badge wear is for a program that the NRA no longer offers, so those badges can be awarded, they are not currently authorized for use on the uniform, until the CAP regulation that covers it is updated to reflect it.

The NRA program changed several years back. There's a lot more details about it in other threads. But suffice to say, every cadet that would have been authorized to wear the award has now aged out of the cadet program. There should not be any of those things visible on uniforms except perhaps on a mannequin in a glass case.  :angel:

[Captain St. Clair]

Thanks for the info.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

Please consult the section of 52-16 in regards to firearms training, specifically.  Firearms training is not an "HAA".

b. Firearm Training. Cadets may participate in firearm training if the wing commander approves the training facility and sponsoring personnel or agency in advance and in writing. For additional guidance, see August 2012 CAPR 900-3 Firearms - Assistance to Law Enforcement Officials 15 Aug 2012. Training must be sponsored and supervised by military personnel qualified as range officers or range safety officers; local law enforcement officers qualified as firearms instructors; or National Rifle Association, National Skeet Shooting Association, or Amateur Trap Shooting Association firearms instructors.

CAP members are not allowed to provide the training.

It isn't done at CAP facilities and CAP does not award any badges.

"You" are not allowed to sanction the training or award anything.  This is the coordination of an activity provided
by some other organization, whether it's military, law enforcement, or NRA training.

Not sure how you read this to prohibit CAP members with the proper credentials from providing the training. Provided the member was authorized by the facility to provide the training.

[Eclipse]

Please consult the section of 52-16 in regards to firearms training, specifically.  Firearms training is not an "HAA".

b. Firearm Training. Cadets may participate in firearm training if the wing commander approves the training facility and sponsoring personnel or agency in advance and in writing. For additional guidance, see August 2012 CAPR 900-3 Firearms - Assistance to Law Enforcement Officials 15 Aug 2012. Training must be sponsored and supervised by military personnel qualified as range officers or range safety officers; local law enforcement officers qualified as firearms instructors; or National Rifle Association, National Skeet Shooting Association, or Amateur Trap Shooting Association firearms instructors.

CAP members are not allowed to provide the training.

It isn't done at CAP facilities and CAP does not award any badges.

"You" are not allowed to sanction the training or award anything.  This is the coordination of an activity provided
by some other organization, whether it's military, law enforcement, or NRA training.

Not sure how you read this to prohibit CAP members with the proper credentials from providing the training. Provided the member was authorized by the facility to provide the training.

They would be providing training in their capacity from that other organization, not as a CAP member.  CAP members are not allowed to provide training
of their own accord or in their capacity as members.

In other words, if you're a dual-hatted member who is also in the military, an LEO, or an NRA instructor, you wear >their< uniform that day.

[bflynn]

Please consult the section of 52-16 in regards to firearms training, specifically.  Firearms training is not an "HAA".

b. Firearm Training. Cadets may participate in firearm training if the wing commander approves the training facility and sponsoring personnel or agency in advance and in writing. For additional guidance, see August 2012 CAPR 900-3 Firearms - Assistance to Law Enforcement Officials 15 Aug 2012. Training must be sponsored and supervised by military personnel qualified as range officers or range safety officers; local law enforcement officers qualified as firearms instructors; or National Rifle Association, National Skeet Shooting Association, or Amateur Trap Shooting Association firearms instructors.

CAP members are not allowed to provide the training.

It isn't done at CAP facilities and CAP does not award any badges.

"You" are not allowed to sanction the training or award anything.  This is the coordination of an activity provided
by some other organization, whether it's military, law enforcement, or NRA training.

Not sure how you read this to prohibit CAP members with the proper credentials from providing the training. Provided the member was authorized by the facility to provide the training.

I'm sure it's a Venn issue.  Eclipse simply forgot to include the overlap group where someone is both a CAP member and Military range/range safety officer, LEO qualified firearms instructor or a NRA, NSSA or ATSA instructor.  A generic, run of the mill CAP member cannot otherwise provide the training.  Note that the regulation says the training must be sponsored by a person who is..., not that it must be sponsored by their parent organization.

[Eclipse]

The organization must officially sponsor the training, just as with First Aid.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Eclipse-

Are you saying that to offer a CPR class or First Aid I have to take off my CAP uniform and wear civies? When the AHA center I am affiliated with states I can instruct at my facility...

It did not bother about 6 squadrons I offered these classes to, from two different Groups when I gave those classes ten years ago.

Now I am AHA certified.

As an instructor, I have to follow AHA or ARC protocols, use their books, and give their cards to any that participate. But take off my uniform?

I took Radiological Emergency from a dual NY Office of Emergency Management - CAP instructor. He announced he was from NYOEM but wore his CAP uniform at a CAP Group office.

So are you saying the OP has to wear his military or LE uniform while conducting this class? It has been already established he has other qualifications that are relevant. I am sure that his Wing honcho read his proposal. Since we know that NHQ personnel read this board, and some post, that Wing CC will probably be reminded of appropriate regulations.

Flyer

[Eclipse]

Yes, that's >exactly< what I am saying, since in all the cases cited, you are not acting as a member of CAP and
there should be no question as to who you are when you're acting for another agency.

CAP has made it very clear they do not provide first aid training and it must be provided by an outside agency.
Wearing your CAP uniform while providing the training muddies that perception for the membership, and may well
imply, and possibly incur, liability on CAP it has not accepted or authorized.

When you train for the AHA, you are "Mr. Flyer" not "Capt Flyer" (etc.)

[Luis R. Ramos]

It is not muddied if/when the member identifies himself clearly.

But can you tell me how it is muddied when I teach that class, and not muddied when I wear the CPR ARC Instructor patch on my BDU per CAP regulations? Or AHA when and/if it comes?

Flyer

[Eclipse]

I have no idea why NHQ authorizes the patches, but they have little to no meaning in a CAP context.
There's plenty of people wearing them who have never taught a class for CAP.

So, rather then be simply "clear", and wear civilian clothes that day, you have to remind people continuously.

Seriously, the mental hoops people go through just to do what they want.

If I arranged to teach a group of CAP members how to ride a motorcycle, I certainly wouldn't wear my CAP uniform while
acting as one of the instructors.

Bright lines make things nice and clear for everyone.  Dim ones serve unknown purposes.

When you're teaching for the AHA, you are conducting >their< business, and it is inappropriate to be in a CAP uniform.

[lordmonar]

Please consult the HAA guidelines found in CAPR 52-16.  I've done my homework correctly, just trying to solve the mystery of the badge.  If anyone else has information or has badges for sale, please let me know.  I would greatly appreciate it.

Please consult the section of 52-16 in regards to firearms training, specifically.  Firearms training is not an "HAA".

b. Firearm Training. Cadets may participate in firearm training if the wing commander approves the training facility and sponsoring personnel or agency in advance and in writing. For additional guidance, see August 2012 CAPR 900-3 Firearms - Assistance to Law Enforcement Officials 15 Aug 2012. Training must be sponsored and supervised by military personnel qualified as range officers or range safety officers; local law enforcement officers qualified as firearms instructors; or National Rifle Association, National Skeet Shooting Association, or Amateur Trap Shooting Association firearms instructors.

CAP members are not allowed to provide the training.

A CAP member who is also a qualfied NRA rirearms instructor may provide the training or a military RSO.

It isn't done at CAP facilities and CAP does not award any badges.

"You" are not allowed to sanction the training or award anything.  This is the coordination of an activity provided
by some other organization, whether it's military, law enforcement, or NRA training.

A CAPF 2 awarding the NRA marksmanship medal is still required.