Okay, I've been meaning to talk about the articles being put in the Safety Beacon for quite a while. It seems like 25% or so of each issue are devoted to safety issues with little or no direct bearing on CAP. But, the Jan. 2012 issue goes way beyond that:
http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/January_2012__Beacon_95F896ADFF1BD.pdf (http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/January_2012__Beacon_95F896ADFF1BD.pdf)
Can you guess which are the offending articles in this issue? Should be simple enough.
1. A generic article about a CAP unit copied out of the AOPA Aviation Brief (incidentally, an "acting commander" for 3 years? Really?).
2. An article about the Congressional Gold Medal efforts for WWII CAP members. Not only does it have nothing to do with safety, it misleadingly implies that the medal is only going towards coastal patrol pilots rather than anyone who served in CAP at all.
Besides those having absolutely nothing to do with safety, we also have several articles about safety, but having nothing to do with CAP. For example, the articles on heating your home and stress. With only a little effort they probably could have turned the heating article into something specific to CAP. For example, for those units with their own buildings, have they had the recommended maintenance and inspections done of their HVAC system?
As far as I can tell, in the 11 page newsletter there isn't an original piece of CAP-generated content. It is all copied from someone else with no attempt to adapt it to make explicit sense to CAP except for one paragraph on the last page saying how great the CAP safety program is.
And then of course there was the front page headline news article in the December issue focused on holiday decorating safety and another article on heating system safety.
This has been a whine of mine for a long time - these newsletters should be focused on their specific lane and within a CAP context.
For everything else we have the Allstate Mayhem guy.
Quote from: Eclipse on January 08, 2012, 01:31:15 AMFor everything else we have the Allstate Mayhem guy.
We should pay that guy to do some CAP safety videos. They'd be good! >:D
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on January 08, 2012, 02:14:39 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on January 08, 2012, 01:31:15 AMFor everything else we have the Allstate Mayhem guy.
We should pay that guy to do some CAP safety videos. They'd be good! >:D
Well, we could follow the strategy apparently being used by the NHQ safety folks and just play one of his Allstate commercials as is and let the members try to figure out what it has to do with CAP safety. :'(
"OMG, Becky's not even hot..."
All of my squadron's safety briefs are based on the safety beacon... ::)
And alot of awkward nodding and concerned looks.
I've noticed most of it has nothing to do with CAP.
Now that I know NOT to burn my house down with decorations I guess I'm current in safety, so I can now go on ES missions. The decorations thing will help when I'm looking for a downed aircraft.
Oh well, it isn't like my squadron ever does ES. Or anything else productive.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on January 08, 2012, 06:29:08 AMNow that I know NOT to burn my house down with decorations I guess I'm current in safety, so I can now go on ES missions. The decorations thing will help when I'm looking for a downed aircraft.
In all fairness, you should be getting an ES safety brief at least twice at a mission - once by the MSO in the general briefing (assuming your team doesn't release remotely), and again by your GTL in the sortie briefing.
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on January 08, 2012, 06:48:14 AM
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on January 08, 2012, 06:29:08 AMNow that I know NOT to burn my house down with decorations I guess I'm current in safety, so I can now go on ES missions. The decorations thing will help when I'm looking for a downed aircraft.
In all fairness, you should be getting an ES safety brief at least twice at a mission - once by the MSO in the general briefing (assuming your team doesn't release remotely), and again by your GTL in the sortie briefing.
Now, will the MSO or the GTL be covering the holiday "outdoor illumination" safety? >:D
Quote from: NCRblues on January 08, 2012, 06:53:28 AM
Quote from: Spaceman3750 on January 08, 2012, 06:48:14 AM
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on January 08, 2012, 06:29:08 AMNow that I know NOT to burn my house down with decorations I guess I'm current in safety, so I can now go on ES missions. The decorations thing will help when I'm looking for a downed aircraft.
In all fairness, you should be getting an ES safety brief at least twice at a mission - once by the MSO in the general briefing (assuming your team doesn't release remotely), and again by your GTL in the sortie briefing.
Now, will the MSO or the GTL be covering the holiday "outdoor illumination" safety? >:D
If the GT's tasking is to establish and decorate a forward operating base or tactical repeater site >:D.
Safety in our lives is not restricted to just out CAP participation. It applies 24/7. I see nothing wrong with pointing out day-to-day or seasonal safety issues in our safety 'rag'. It's hard tobe a useful member if you've banged yourself up doing homeowner stuff while not on CAP time.
The Navy safety magazines have non-work related articles almost every month, because it was in the best interest of the Navy to keep everyone safe 24/7. A significant amount of down time can be attributed to off duty safety incidents.Why should CAP be different? I'll bet the AF has a similar approach.
Go here: http://www.public.navy.mil/navsafecen/Pages/messages/alsafe.aspx (http://www.public.navy.mil/navsafecen/Pages/messages/alsafe.aspx)
It's a compilation of the weekly Naval Safety Center mishap report summaries. Read them. You'll see that many of the mishaps described in the messages are NOT work related.
In fact, use them for safety briefings. They are actually entertaining, in a morbid way.
Quote from: SarDragon on January 08, 2012, 09:23:46 AM
Safety in our lives is not restricted to just out CAP participation. It applies 24/7. I see nothing wrong with pointing out day-to-day or seasonal safety issues in our safety 'rag'. It's hard tobe a useful member if you've banged yourself up doing homeowner stuff while not on CAP time.
When CAP starts paying my bills they will have a right to force me to spend time on safety issues having nothing to do with CAP. I have stayed in CAP knowing that I will have to put up with our silly safety meetings, online courses, etc. and I'm fine with that so long as they remain focused on safety issues involving CAP activities.
Obviously NHQ has run out of things to discuss in regards to CAP safety and are just looking for things to fill the time they have mandated we spend on safety (BTW, the online safety briefs are just as bad in not being related to CAP in many cases).
How about reducing the time we have to spend on safety to that actually needed to cover CAP safety topics and letting us do something more CAP productive with the time saved?
I find that this: http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/ (http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/) and this: http://www.newsoftheweird.com/ (http://www.newsoftheweird.com/)
are a very use resource for safety briefings...
Well a quick read of the table of contents on the first page tells me that the newsletter is divided into two sections. First is "republished articles" i.e. articles from some other source that are being republished in the newsletter for their relevance in the subject matter. Granted I agree about the non-sequitur of the CGM article, but other than that I don't see an issue with the articles. They still are safety matters that we need to be aware of.
The second part is "Civil Air Patrol articles", that is, original articles or material submitted by CAP....in this case it is the propeller that struck the ground (which common-sense tells me it is a CAP aircraft based on what section it is in) and the article about the addition of NST interaction.
See? Doesn't have to be strictly CAP-written articles to still be relevant to CAP.
Quote from: SarDragon on January 08, 2012, 09:23:46 AM
Safety in our lives is not restricted to just out CAP participation. It applies 24/7. I see nothing wrong with pointing out day-to-day or seasonal safety issues in our safety 'rag'. It's hard tobe a useful member if you've banged yourself up doing homeowner stuff while not on CAP time.
The Navy safety magazines have non-work related articles almost every month, because it was in the best interest of the Navy to keep everyone safe 24/7. A significant amount of down time can be attributed to off duty safety incidents.Why should CAP be different? I'll bet the AF has a similar approach.
Go here: http://www.public.navy.mil/navsafecen/Pages/messages/alsafe.aspx (http://www.public.navy.mil/navsafecen/Pages/messages/alsafe.aspx)
It's a compilation of the weekly Naval Safety Center mishap report summaries. Read them. You'll see that many of the mishaps described in the messages are NOT work related.
In fact, use them for safety briefings. They are actually entertaining, in a morbid way.
sir,
You have to be safety current to go on a mission. If that safety is about decorations, how will it help me be safe while searching for an ELT?
You being safe in your everyday activities benefits Civil Air Patrol as an organization. Even if it's about your holiday lights in your home. If something you learned in a safety brief protects you or your family wouldn't you think it was beneficial? Preventing injuries among our members keeps members healthy and actively participating in the promotion of all of our missions. Just by providing a safety brief to our membership makes it CAP Related.
The health and safety of our members should be a concern to all of us. CAP specific Briefings should be included but so should topics that are trending. Your safety is important to us whether you are on CAP duty or off. Our people are among our resources as an organization.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on January 08, 2012, 06:06:16 PM
You have to be safety current to go on a mission. If that safety is about decorations, how will it help me be safe while searching for an ELT?
If your House burns down because your holiday decorations caused a fire. I'm betting at a minimum, provided you survived, you would most likely not be available for that ELT mission.
Christmas Tree Fire Safety (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLHhG65fLeY#noexternalembed)
Quote from: SARDOC on January 08, 2012, 07:31:09 PM
If your House burns down because your holiday decorations caused a fire. I'm betting at a minimum, provided you survived, you would most likely not be available for that ELT mission.
If I lose my job and can no longer afford to pay my dues will CAP be providing job training so that they don't lose my ability to participate in ES missions?
Well, will someone with a greater knowledge of Flight Ops or Safety please explain to me the purpose of the recent GLR edict that a streamer marked "REMOVE BEFORE FLIGHT" be affixed to the tail of parked CAP aircraft no matter where they are other than to "Remove" the streamer before flying. Seems kind of pointless to affix a red streamer to an aircraft with a "BIG" RED TAIL.
Am I missing something here? ???
My guess was that it forces a walk-around and indicates anyone who doesn't do it.
Quote from: Eclipse on January 09, 2012, 12:05:43 AM
My guess was that it forces a walk-around and indicates anyone who doesn't do it.
Any bets on how long that will take?
If it's in the vicinity of the tail tie-down, then it makes more sense. I've seen more than one plane try to taxi away with that tie-down still attached.
I don't understand the point either. SarDragon's theory makes some sense but it would be nice if the point was explained in the memo.
I think the varied topics are intended to encourage a full time safety attitude. Certainly your few hours a week of CAP activity shouldn't be the only time you are thinking about being safe.
Quote from: RiverAux on January 08, 2012, 07:52:25 PM
If I lose my job and can no longer afford to pay my dues will CAP be providing job training so that they don't lose my ability to participate in ES missions?
I would argue that we provide a level of responsibility on some of our members that actually develop them Professionally. Doing certain jobs in the squadron or wing improve their abilities whether it gives someone experience in administration, supervision, logistics...some potential employers will count pertinent Volunteer experience as equivalent to career experience. So you could say that we already do provide some with job training.
It seemed like your comment was going off on a tangent...straying off the subject of the thread though. His question was how does something seemingly benign as a safety brief on holiday decorations help him meet CAP's safety objectives for an ELT mission. So I answered it. People are our most important resource we try to get them to be safety conscious 24/7. maybe even get them to incorporate ORM techniques into their everyday activities.
WIAD, we had a safety brief every Friday before we got released for the weekend. Not once in any of those briefings did any material have to do with the army. When we were doing an army training event, we most certainly had a pertinent safety brief.
And when CAP can show that all the extra stuff we've been adding to our safety program has an impact on CAP safety statistics, perhaps then they should start worrying about what we're doing the rest of our lives.
Quote from: RiverAux on January 09, 2012, 01:34:26 PM
And when CAP can show that all the extra stuff we've been adding to our safety program has an impact on CAP safety statistics, perhaps then they should start worrying about what we're doing the rest of our lives.
You're asking to prove a negative. That not typically how it's done. Besides we don't maintain statistics on our membership for accidents or near misses that occur outside the CAP environment. That is a Logistical challenge that we don't need to place on our membership.
Safety briefings are more about just the topic, they are about retraining the way people think and get them in the habit of doing an ORM process on events that impact them in their everyday life. Which will benefit when you are working in CAP. Maybe instead of calling it a Safety brief it should be called Applications for ORM training.
We can't prove that an accident didn't occur because of a safety brief.
Quote from: RiverAux on January 09, 2012, 01:34:26 PM
And when CAP can show that all the extra stuff we've been adding to our safety program has an impact on CAP safety statistics, perhaps then they should start worrying about what we're doing the rest of our lives.
I concur that safety education should be evidence-based.
We generally model our safety programs after other successful safety programs, like the AF. We need to make safety education evidence-based because if a given program cannot make a measurable difference, then we are likely overlooking a better program that can.
Quote from: SARDOC on January 09, 2012, 02:31:08 PM
We can't prove that an accident didn't occur because of a safety brief.
True, but we can look at statistical data and see if the trends in mishaps are up, down, or static, and based on my non-scientific review of the
78's from the last couple of years, the trend in mishaps, especially avoidable ones involving vehicles, seems to be static with a slight
upward trend - this during the exact period when the emphasis on safety education has also been on the rise.
So that can be taken at least two different ways -
"We're swamped in safety and it's becoming background noise that people ignore, so let's reduce the noise."
"Stop breaking people and stuff and show us you can be safe and we'll reduce the requirements."
Third note:
There's more reporting of stuff. I've been told to report every near miss when driving a CAP vehicle, even (or especially) when no contact, damage, or injury is involved. You know, those times when you move right or left in your lane beacuse the vehicle in the next lane is drifting into yours until you hit the horn. Or you see an erratic driver coming up fast and move out of their way before contact is made as the blow through the space you just moved out of. Ordinarily, no harm, no foul. Now reportable.
Fill disclosure - I don't. I asked my wing SE if he wanted two or three reports every trip because of this. He said no. Most of the trips are over 100 miles.
Also, early on, most of the safety education was focused on bending aircraft.
Quote from: arajca on January 09, 2012, 05:21:47 PM... Or you see an erratic driver coming up fast and move out of their way before contact is made as the blow through the space you just moved out of. Ordinarily, no harm, no foul. Now reportable...
Cite?
Quote from: CAPR 62-2d. "Mishap" is defined as any unplanned or undesired, operational occurrence, or series of occurrences, that results in, or has the potential to result in, death, injury, or damage to equipment or property.
emphasis mine.Quote from: CAPR 62-2(2) Vehicle. Mishaps involving CAP Vehicles, during authorized CAP activities; includes damage to structures such as buildings, fences, light poles, etc. (See attachment 2.)
Quote from: CAPR 62-23. Vehicle Minor Mishap is a mishap associated with the operation of a CAP vehicle which does not meet the minimum criteria to be classified as an accident or incident.
Fill out a 78 to merge or change lanes? Yeah, I'll get right on it.
Quote from: EMT-83 on January 09, 2012, 07:20:39 PM
Fill out a 78 to merge or change lanes? Yeah, I'll get right on it.
According to his scenario:
Quote from: arajca on January 09, 2012, 05:21:47 PM... Or you see an erratic driver coming up fast and move out of their way before contact is made as the blow through the space you just moved out of. Ordinarily, no harm, no foul. Now reportable...
you would have to. May not agree with it, but it is what it is, until the regs change or the scenario does.
So instead of the pre-flight taking a lot of time .. the post flight has the potential to take a while. :)
An erratic driver playing bumper tag is different than the normal interaction with traffic. Whether it rates a 78 is between you and "he who provides your straw." I could see some hairs being raised if someone reports a COV as "driving erratically" and the CAP driver not reporting, etc.
I know in year's past when I abided by the most strict interpretation of the regs I was told that common bumps and bruises, etc., did not rate a report...
...then that they do...
...then that they don't...
...well, just to be "safe"...
Rinse, repeat....
I do wish the Safety Beacon contained more relevant safety information for CAP. This would make it a more valuable resource for use in safety briefings. The Safety Beacon has the potential to be a good place for safety officers to find ideas to use in safety briefings. But the topics really aren't relevant.
Well, the Feb. beacon is somewhat of an improvement except, what is the lead article in the
SAFETY newsletter? Something about social media.
Most of the rest has some more direct relevance to CAP operations even if presented in a generic way as aviation safety articles and general first aid type advice.
However, the night time safety article is a perfect example of the problem. Rather than turning it into something relevant to CAP life it talks about using crosswalks and wearing black while walking along roads. How about something about doing ES missions at night? Night time PT tests on dark parking lots?
Then there is this about night ES/hiking operations:
QuoteWear required reflective vest or belts, the American National Safety Institute (ANSI) Class II or Class III vests are recommended but any retro-reflective color, yellow, orange, white will work
Quote from: RiverAux on February 05, 2012, 10:15:42 PM
Then there is this about night ES/hiking operations:
QuoteWear required reflective vest or belts, the American National Safety Institute (ANSI) Class II or Class III vests are recommended but any retro-reflective color, yellow, orange, white will work
All this has happened before, and will happen again...(http://www.sliceofscifi.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/pr2.jpg)
Quote from: Eclipse on February 05, 2012, 10:42:33 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on February 05, 2012, 10:15:42 PM
Then there is this about night ES/hiking operations:
QuoteWear required reflective vest or belts, the American National Safety Institute (ANSI) Class II or Class III vests are recommended but any retro-reflective color, yellow, orange, white will work
All this has happened before, and will happen again...
(http://www.sliceofscifi.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/pr2.jpg)
That show sucked. I much prefer the Ron Moore version....IDK who that guy is but Starbuck is a woman.
Quote
When CAP starts paying my bills they will have a right to force me to spend time on safety issues having nothing to do with CAP. I have stayed in CAP knowing that I will have to put up with our silly safety meetings, ...
It is about mindset. If you have a 100% safety mindset you will be good to go. Unfortunately most people survive on 50% safety mindset and luck. Of course we all know people who are, "a pending accident", not today but not a surprise when it happens.
Stay safe my friends.
Quote from: Private Investigator on February 17, 2012, 04:05:57 AM
Quote
When CAP starts paying my bills they will have a right to force me to spend time on safety issues having nothing to do with CAP. I have stayed in CAP knowing that I will have to put up with our silly safety meetings, ...
It is about mindset. If you have a 100% safety mindset you will be good to go. Unfortunately most people survive on 50% safety mindset and luck. Of course we all know people who are, "a pending accident", not today but not a surprise when it happens.
Stay safe my friends.
Yep. Keeping safety in your mind is what the purpose of a safety culture is.
It doesn't matter a hill of beans the specifics of the safety education topics. The point is to get people thinking about safety in general. You cannot anticipate every hazard, every risk. What you can do is try and make sure people are thinking about safety in everything that they do.
Where I work, we promote a culture of safety every day. The standard mantra of "zero incidents at the workplace" has had the "at the workplace" deleted from it. I actually care if a co-worker falls off a ladder taking down his Christmas lights...because I care about my co-worker. Once you get to the point where it doesn't matter if someone is hurt at work or somewhere else, then you have begun to achieve a culture of safety.
People here complain about having to do some kind of safety education monthly. If I have five meetings on Monday, there will be five distinct discussions of safety on Monday. The first item on the agenda of every single meeting where I work is safety. This isn't some construction site or industrial plant, it's a normal everyday office environment.
This is not a waste of time or resources, it's an investment in your fellow members.
Quote from: JeffDG on February 17, 2012, 01:39:15 PM
It doesn't matter a hill of beans the specifics of the safety education topics. The point is to get people thinking about safety in general. You cannot anticipate every hazard, every risk. What you can do is try and make sure people are thinking about safety in everything that they do.
Well, yes and no. I can only agree that a safety culture is critical and I certainly don't envy the officers responsible for publishing safety education materials, inclduing the Beacon. It is difficult and demanding work.
But, having said that I think it goes too far to say the "it doesn't matter" what the topics are. Most of the evidence-based safety research I have seen suggests that the target audience attends to and internalizes safety information better when they have some connection to the safety topic. Restated, if the have some "skin in the game" they are far more likely to pay attention and - even more importantly- change their safety-related behaviors.
And the reverse is also true - forcing members to engage in and complete safety eduction in topics that will never affect them ("Immediate Actions Upon Tsunami Warnings" in KSWG or "Winter Weather Flying" in HIWG) actually disincentivises safety education and undermines the necessary safety culture by devaluing it in the members' eyes and turning it into some sort of "ticket-punching" exercise.
And while I must also agree with you that it is impossible to "anticipate every hazard, every risk, " I think you would in turn agree with me that the whole point of our ORM process is to anticipate the most likely and the most dangerous risks. It does not seem too difficult to use the ORM process to drive safety education and select topics related to the most common and most dangerous risks our volunteers face in their CAP and private lives.
Thank you for all the work that you and other safety officers do to protect us all.
Ned Lee
^^ +1 :clap:
Ned, I'm glad to hear that you have some sympathy to my point of view on this issue (while obviously framing it in the less contentious way that you are known for).
Ned, maybe regional safety officers should publish their own "safety beacons" so they can brief people on stuff affecting their region.
Quote from: Ned on February 17, 2012, 05:25:16 PMBut, having said that I think it goes too far to say the "it doesn't matter" what the topics are. Most of the evidence-based safety research I have seen suggests that the target audience attends to and internalizes safety information better when they have some connection to the safety topic.
This is pretty straight on. Here in central NC, we don't get much snow, so winter driving tips aren't really useful, although we get the briefing every year. Yes, we should put chains on our cars, but we don't own chains in the South. We had an inch of snow this winter and it lasted for 2 hours.
More recently we had a very good presentation on hypothermia. That's relevant and was very well listened to.
Having some connection to the briefing and having it presented at an adult level is important. Telling us not to touch hot stoves doesn't work...