Military Service Question to everyone...

[Stonewall]

I'd also like to add that I have seen men without ailments, handicaps or asthma fall out from short 3 mile runs, 12 mile ruck marches and panic while wearing their gas masks.  I have personally had to counsel female NCOs who refused to run more than 1 1/2 miles during organized PT because "that's all I'm required to run in the Air Force".  These are people who are fully capable to serve, in a physical sense.  Yet somehow they fail to meet other standards that aren't assessed during a physical at MEPS.

Just pisses me off to see potentially good people be turned away as they allow "healthy" losers make better than average money, with top notch benefits, serve in the military simply because they were down on their luck with jobs or money.  Yet a patriot who has wanted to serve their life, is more than physically capable to do so, but turned down because they have a skin disorder that you can't even see or technically have asthma, yet can outrun some fat guy who doesn't have asthma. 


/rant

[Spike]

^ I agree 100% with you.  The DoD needs to change many things and allow those with disqualifying conditions (today) to serve.  I will walk with you to to Congress the day we can get it organized. 

However, until the changes come, we have to accept the fact that there are disqualifying factors that are disqualifying.  Perhaps one day the military will accept that everyone should have a chance to serve in some capacity, but today is not the day.  Very soon though, but we must wait.

I am all for mandatory service, and if a person does not meet combat standards then they are placed in other career fields.  Mailrooms, dining facilities, warehouses, chapels, service squadrons etc.

[Eclipse]

I have to imagine its part of the culture of "everyone has an equal shot at unpleasantness", but we all know the reality of life is that
a lot of state-side military personnel never do anything different day-to-day than any other office worker, and never will, even some of those aboard Navy ships and deployed abroad.

I also personally know plenty of reservists who did their BMT and never saw combat and put in less hours a year than moderately active CAP members.

And that doesn't even bring cyber security and UAV pilots into the conversation.

I think there are a lot of people who would be interested in the security, benefits and public service of military service, but found themselves unmotivated when they were young, and a "95%'er" when older, myself included.  I doubt I could be much value to a forward-deployed unit, but I could sure do network troubleshooting, process Tri-Care paperwork, or help at MEPS.  I'm sure not interested in doing that for free, though, as part of VSAF (I would however, consider it if allowed to do it as a "full" CAP member").

If you look around most bases, you'll see that just about any "baseline" job has gone to civilian contractors - mess halls, maintenance, etc.  Such is the way of the world, I guess.

As to people already in who get injured, as long as they can still do their job, or a job, they should not be farmed out to retirement.

[Stonewall]

I also personally know plenty of reservists who did their BMT and never saw combat and put in less hours a year than moderately active CAP members.

As a combat arms instructor I always start my training with a question, "has anyone not fired the M9/M4/M16 in the last 3 years".  Every_single_time someone, usualy 2 or 3, raise their hands.  When I ask how long has it been, I get answers ranging from 5 to 20 years.  Seriously, 20 years.  I had a female CMSgt about 3 months ago tell me she hadn't shot since basic training and then it was the .38 revolver.  Or so she said.  That right there confirms there are too many people in the military that serve so far from the potential of being near combat that most medical concerns are irrelevant in my opinion.  If you can serve 20 years and not fire a gun, you can serve 20 years with asthma.

[SarDragon]

I have to imagine its part of the culture of "everyone has an equal shot at unpleasantness", but we all know the reality of life is that
a lot of state-side military personnel never do anything different day-to-day than any other office worker, and never will, even some of those aboard Navy ships and deployed abroad.

Sorry, that doesn't flush at all. EVERYONE on a ship, regardless of rank or job assignment, is required to complete training that no regular office worker could imagine. Inability to satisfactorily complete that training can result in reassignment.

This training is related to shipboard damage control. You learn how to fight fires, use personal safety equipment, and other related skills.

[NCRblues]

Oh man the doom and gloom bunch were out in force on this one.

First off, when i went through basic their were 15 out of my flight that were on medical wavers, several of them were for asthma.

Second, someone said add conspiracy charges to the discharge...um can you site one conspiracy charge in the last....(ill make it real easy) 200 years that dealt with fail to alert meps or recruiters of medical conditions? i cant find a single one 

i really enjoy the self righteous people on here that act like they have never ever lied. Really get over yourself. Stop trying to scare the living &^$#* out of the kid and tell him this.

We as members who have gone through the military or wanted to advise you to give freely all the information that you can to your recruiter and at meps. BUT it is a free country (thanks to those that have served) and if you want to withhold information than you sir are free to do so. Done let anyone on this board tell you different (because no one here is an expert at everything like some claim to be  ) their is a weaver for almost everyting now Adas.

Don't believe me captalkers? How about the members of the army that are allowed in with felony's because of waivers (CNN and fox did a big story about that a couple years ago). Past gang affiliation? no problem...here's a waiver. Simple medical condition that can be control ed (IE asthma) no problem...welcome to 2010 old timers.

Now feel free to jump me my fellow cap members and experts of all things kinda sorta military but not really.

Oh BTW....simple question....how many of you work as recruiters now? or at meps now? How many of you are enlistment experts?.... probably none or very few but how about this question....How many of you are experts are finding regulations on google and reading them and demanding they be followed to the letter not the intent? close to all on this board i would have to say....

Good day folks....and feel free to bash me... makes me smile

PS. I didnt run spell check just for you sticklers on that

[Eclipse]

Sorry, that doesn't flush at all. EVERYONE on a ship, regardless of rank or job assignment, is required to complete training that no regular office worker could imagine. Inability to satisfactorily complete that training can result in reassignment.

Yeah, I know.  Doesn't change my point.  Splitting hairs on this is kinda the problem.

[SarDragon]

Sorry, that doesn't flush at all. EVERYONE on a ship, regardless of rank or job assignment, is required to complete training that no regular office worker could imagine. Inability to satisfactorily complete that training can result in reassignment.

Yeah, I know.  Doesn't change my point.  Splitting hairs on this is kinda the problem.

It's not splitting hairs at all.

I have to imagine its part of the culture of "everyone has an equal shot at unpleasantness", but we all know the reality of life is that
a lot of state-side military personnel never do anything different day-to-day than any other office worker, and never will, even some of those aboard Navy ships and deployed abroad.

It IS different. There's additional training and a foreign environment that your average office worker (term used very broadly) will never encounter.

[TACP]

their is a weaver for almost everyting now Adas.

You spelled 'everything' wrong. HA

Couldn't help myself...

[SarDragon]

He seems to not care about his poor writing skills, so I just ignore most of what he posts now. I can't be bothered to attempt translations.

[NCRblues]

Oh sardragon... we have done this through Pm but i guess ill just say it here.

I was diagnosed with a spelling disability when i was young. Now I know their is spell check, but sometimes it dosent fix everything. I seem not to care huh? Shall i post the Pm's about you telling me you appreciate me trying and you thank me for my inputs because active duty's inputs are sometimes a good idea? Or are we just going to stick with i don't read what he puts and be hypocritical? SAR, i have nothing against you, but what you put was out of line and a personal attack, and i take offense.....Has not people been banned from this site because of attacks as such.....HM.....

[raivo]

First off, when i went through basic their were 15 out of my flight that were on medical wavers, several of them were for asthma.

Which is why I pointed him in the general direction of where to get started on enlisting *legally*, through a waiver, rather than advising him to falsify his enlistment documents.

BUT it is a free country (thanks to those that have served) and if you want to withhold information than you sir are free to do so.

Yes. And if you get caught, then you're going to have to live with whatever consequences your court-martial decides on. (The maximum penalty under the UCMJ for fraudulent enlistment, by the way, is: "dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 2 years.") I realize that this is a "worst-case" scenario, however, it is not outside the realm of possibility.

How many of you are experts are finding regulations on google and reading them and demanding they be followed to the letter not the intent? close to all on this board i would have to say....

... have you read your signature lately?

[Eclipse]

How many of you are experts are finding regulations on google and reading them and demanding they be followed to the letter not the intent? close to all on this board i would have to say....

... have you read your signature lately?

PWN'ED!

[Irishrenegade]

^ I agree 100% with you.  The DoD needs to change many things and allow those with disqualifying conditions (today) to serve.  I will walk with you to to Congress the day we can get it organized. 

Let me know when your going cause ill be right there next to you!

However, until the changes come, we have to accept the fact that there are disqualifying factors that are disqualifying.  Perhaps one day the military will accept that everyone should have a chance to serve in some capacity, but today is not the day.  Very soon though, but we must wait.

I am all for mandatory service, and if a person does not meet combat standards then they are placed in other career fields.  Mailrooms, dining facilities, warehouses, chapels, service squadrons etc.

I also never said I wanted a combat role either...Granted do get me wrong...you offer me a job in a cockpit of an A-10 or F-35 you can have my soul 

Im really good with computers...hell put me behind a desk or in a hanger installing parts or even controlling a predator! lol I will try to get those tests and see if i can get a waiver...if not then I will continue with CAP and be a proud senior "officer" and help mold the cadets and give them the best experience of their lives! I dont like arguing people so if your going to please leave it off here cause we are all on the same "team" here.

Once again sorry to anyone who got offended by this thread/war I started...

[NCRblues]

Oh ravio and eclipse you caught me  How dare i want rules to be followed

Oh eclipse you might have to give a "cite" for your use of PWN'ED! on this board some of our more SENIOR members might need a translation...if they care to take the time

[wuzafuzz]

Irishrenegade:

You have been given some good advice in this thread.  Some, however, I wouldn't recommend. 

My 2 cents:  Don't lie.  I realize you said you wouldn't do so but I'm throwing it out there anyway.  The world is full of restrictions or limitations, especially for jobs with some "cool factor."  But know this: for most limits there are creative workarounds that are completely honest and legit.  Find a way to chase your goals without spending years wondering if deception will catch up with you.

Want to serve in the military?  Pursue those waivers.  Go ahead and shop around for the answer you want, if necessary.  If your perseverance doesn't pay off then you might consider a State Defense Force or a civilian role supporting the military.  Another option might be to analyze your motivations to see WHY you want to serve.  You may realize other careers or "hobby jobs" also meet your goals.  Want some adventure?  Check out full, part time, or volunteer public safety positions.  (Including CAP of course!)  Broaden your search a little and you may be pleasantly surprised by what you find.

[JC004]

...
The rules are there to not only protect the health of your friend, but those he will serve with.  Having an asthma attack in garrison is different than having one while you are part of a team that depends on you.
...

This is my position.  If the asthma gets someone else killed, that's a problem, isn't it?  I think it's that simple.  This shouldn't even be three pages.  If you endanger a mission and its people by trying to get past the rules here, that's an issue.

I have asthma and I wanted to join.  My thought process was as above, even if I was able to get around it and get in somehow.

There are plenty of ways to serve.  If you want to serve the military, try doing it as a DoD civilian so you don't get anybody dead.

[SarDragon]

Oh sardragon... we have done this through Pm but i guess ill just say it here.

You're right. I was out of line, and I apologize. I should have looked at our PMs before adding my commentary.

[lordmonar]

I know its more them protecting me and those I would serve with but s*** give me a freakin chance and if I cant hack it in boot camp then kick me out.

What...have the military spend hard money on you....pay for your clothing, food, and some spending cash.  Take up the time of the TI's and a slot someone else could have had because we need to take a chance on you?

What happens if you make it through basic....then go to techschool and on to your first assignment.  After a year of training and just when you start pulling your own weight you get deployed to somewhere nasty and boom! Your asthma kicks in!

Short term we now have to replace you in the field.  Then you spend the next year or so in and out of the hospital trying to fix you.  Once you are released from AD now they have to replace you!

Sure you and 100 other guys can hack it and go on to be Olympic champions or NFL stars.......but the other 9900 of you can't.  The military does not need to give you chance to serve.....

What makes it worse is having people come up to me saying they don't respect me when i say i cant go in without getting a chance to explain myself to them that I have a medical issue.

Who cares what people think!  I served 22 years in the USAF.  I don't care less about people who have or have not served.  If you want to serve your country there are many ways to do it.  Become a teacher, a cop, a fireman.  Join Americorps or the Peace Corps.  Volunteer with the Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Boys/Girls Club.....CAP.

I have never lied to a recruiter and I will never and this was more of a getting others opinions on the issue. Spike this is directed at you...I know the core values and i would never lie!! I just want the opportunity to be looked at instead of being thrown out like i was yesterdays leftovers (had plenty of women already do that to me...i don't need anyone else doing it lolol)

Wanted to serve but can't due to asthma is not yesterday's leftovers.  Nor is serving in the military move you up the social scale one bit.  I know tonnes of scumbags in the military who I would not trust with a pea shooter let alone an M-4.  Being in the military does not make you man......being a man makes you one.

[Stonewall]

What...have the military spend hard money on you....pay for your clothing, food, and some spending cash.  Take up the time of the TI's and a slot someone else could have had because we need to take a chance on you?

Yes, because the TIs have a hard enough time dealing with the whiners and non-hackers that are "healthy". 

What happens if you make it through basic....then go to techschool and on to your first assignment.  After a year of training and just when you start pulling your own weight you get deployed to somewhere nasty and boom! Your asthma kicks in!

Or, you're completely healthy and you get knocked up.  Because that never happens? 

Short term we now have to replace you in the field.  Then you spend the next year or so in and out of the hospital trying to fix you.  Once you are released from AD now they have to replace you!

Happens all the time with "healthy" people who simply can't hack the military and get out on a Chapter 11 or some other premise.  The fact is, the military takes a chance with EVERY recruit.  Even in the [darn] Guard we've got people dropping left and right, not finishing their contract and STILL keeping half of their $20K bonus.

I know tons of military members currently serving on active duty who have asthma, sleep apnea, are obese, have lots of surgeries that would otherwise disqualify someone from service, yet they still get to stay in and soak up the benefits.  They're just as American as the guy with asthma tyring to join.  Again, I think there needs to be a battery of tests and physical standards that one needs to accomplish.  If he/she can do that, let them serve.  Even provide a "special contract" that says if you fall out or screw up along the way in the first 2 years, you're out, no questions asked, no benefits.