Military Service Question to everyone...

[Irishrenegade]

So lets just say I have a friend who has asthma. He has had it all his life but has played hockey, lacrosse and football. He is athletic and runs everyday without much trouble at all. He gets on a treadmill everyday and can run for a good 2-3 miles without stopping for air. He gets winded just like anyone would but his asthma is not as bad as it used to be.

Now onto my question if you have not already gotten where im going with this...Because my friend has asthma (documented after the age of 13) he is obviously an automatic DQ for the Air National Guard (or any branch for that matter). Now should he/could he potentially leave that part out of the recruitment and see if HE CAN MAKE IT TO MEPS SO THE DOCTOR CAN DECIDE??  THIS WAS ALSO EDITED BECAUSE IT OBVIOUSLY WAS NOT CLEAR ENOUGH...I WOULD NEVER LIE TO A DOCTOR AND ALSO YOU CANT BECAUSE THEY WILL FIND OUT

I mean think about it...there are olympic athletes with asthma who have won gold metals...and my friend cant do the one thing he has wanted to do his whole life??? It really is something he is very very very passionate about but he is worried he will be Dishonorable Discharged if he does make it past recruit and MEPS if they find out past those stages...

Any thoughts??

ADDED NOTE: This is also a situation I am In...yes i did edit this in after all the crap below me because I have seemed to offend some on here and I would like to apologize for not being clearer with my post above...

ALSO ANOTHER DISCLAMER: I WOULD NEVER EVER EVER EVER LIE!!!!!!! SO GET THAT OUT OF YOUR HEAD RIGHT NOW....I HAVE BEEN TO RECRUITERS BEFORE AND ALWAYS TOLD THE TRUTH ABOUT MY CONDITION SO DONT TAKE ME AS AN ASS WHO DOES LIES BECAUSE WHEN I PUT ON THAT CAP UNIFORM IM [darn] PROUD OF IT AND I REPRESENT WITH HONOR!!!!!!!

[PA Guy]

Can you say fraudulent enlistment with resulting discharge.

[AirAux]

As gallant as your friend's ambition/intention may be, there are good reasons why the reg's are as they are.  That said, perhaps he could apply for a waiver?  If not, I would certainly advise him not to lie on his application.  Dishonorable discharge would be well deserved if he obtains enlistment through fraudulent statements.  Can you imagine What the gas chamber will do to your buddy during basic??

[cap235629]

have him be honest with the recruiters. If he lies his fears WILL come true if it is disvovered at a later date. Talking to ALL branches may shake loose a waiver. The worst they can say is no. If no waiver is obtainable, there are many other ways to serve, CAP for instance!

[Irishrenegade]

Yes that is understandable BUT my friend is one that hates being told that he cannot do something. He cannot even get to MEPS for crying out loud...I say let him try to pass a physical. At least let him say he tried instead of being run out with his tail between his legs.

He also told me that a recruiter told him that he could get to boot camp and if during boot camp he gets caught then he gets out no fault. And if he does pass boot camp and graduate later on down the road go to the Doc and say hey doc last few times i went running i started to have weird feelings in my chest...what is going on? (pretty much play dumb)

Same recruiter also stated that the whole dishonerable discharge is a scare tactic to get ppl from doing this action and that a Dishonerable discharge rarely occurs in these situations.


IDK...I have asked ppl myself and have gotten answers like this and I have gotten answers like yours PA Guy...

[Flying Pig]

If he has been documented since age 13, they will find out.  He may not get a dishonorable, but he will get at least a Medical or OTH.
He can go to MEPS and ask to be checked out.  I knew people in the military who had asthma as kids and were in the military with no issues.  Maybe there is documentation he can get from his current doctor indicating that its no longer an issue.
Being an former Infantry Platoon Sgt I can tell you your friend may be great at home, on a treadmill running 3 miles, but what about humping 20+ miles in the heat, dirt, and to the point of sheer physical exhaustion with 45lbs on his back?  There are days running JUST 3 miles would have been a godsend.
Doesnt look like your buddy is looking to be a grunt, but thats my theory. 

The military has several "unfair" requirements.  I have 8 yrs prior military service, I am a commercial/instrument rated fixed wing and helicopter pilot working in the industry and was denied for the Army WOC aviator program because at the ripe old age of 35, I am to old.  However, I swim 2000-3000yrds per week, do P90X and could probably out PT most people on active duty.  But thems is  the breaks.  I realize its not about PT scores, but more to do with retirement age, but it still sucks.  When I was in I saw Marines discharged for being "fat" but in reality these guys were muscle bound weight lifters that were built like tanks without an ounce of fat on them.

Ultimately what your friend decides to do is on him. However, the issue about the gas chamber is going to be a reality.  And from what I recall, there wasnt a medic standing by just in case someone may have lied about having asthma.  That could be a real show stopper.

[Irishrenegade]

Thank you for your input Flying Pig!!

With your concern about the humping it that long in the heat and other weather conditions...he was a rated Goalie in NYS playing for the AAA Jr. Adirondack Redwings (the JR team to the AHL Redwings...who are the farm team to the NHL Detroit Redwings) where they would do dryland practice in the freezing cold (horrible for asthma) running for miles and doing lots of other physical activities for 2 straight hours then gonig on-ice practice for another 2 hours...Had Division I scholarships offered to him but they were taken away when he got injured before signing to one...but still I would say that is pretty impressive for a kid with Asthma

ALSO!

The reg is...Documented asthma past 13th birthday. What if he said he had it when he was little and grew out of it (which is actually more or less a true statement because he is alot more physically active than he was when he was little)...he carries his inhaler on him as a just in case thing and does not actually use it ever.

Is that lying?? I would say that your telling them your history and it would be up to the doc at MEPS to decide.

[Flying Pig]

How old is he now?  The fact that he has no issues with it, but still carries an inhaler "just in case" is a little odd.  Meaning the fear is still there for some reason.  If I never used it and never needed it, I wouldnt carry it.  I dont carry around an epi shot just because I may have developed a bee sting allergy in the past couple of years.

Your friend needs to be straight up with the recruiter and let the recruiter handle the details.  I would say if he gets in, make sure he goes for a job that isnt going to be putting him in the field under harsh conditions.  Not that can EVER be gauranteed...EVER.

If your friend hates being told "No", hes really going to enjoy the military.

[lordmonar]

Can you say fraudulent enlistment with resulting discharge.

And add to that conspiracy charges to the Irishrenegade.

No...don't leave it out.  It is a crime to lie (knowing leave out information) on offical documents.

Sorry that he cannot serve his country in the armed forces...but there are other, legal, ways to serve.

[PA Guy]

Is that lying?? I would say that your telling them your history and it would be up to the doc at MEPS to decide.

In a word, yes.  The recruiter and the doc at MEPS look at the same regulation and the doc at MEPS can't ignore them. Oh by the way, the recruiter can tell your friend anything but when the s#$% hits the fan the recruiter will deny everything.

[Spike]

Yes.....tell him to lie to the recruiter, lie to the military, sign an enlistment contract fraudulently.  When discharging the liar, the military will contact the recruiter, pull up civilian medical files and do a "routine" investigation so that the VA does not have to pay for any benefits later on.

The recruiter will say "I never said such things", and all that will be left is your friends lies and signatures.  He will be charged and dismissed with a dishonorable discharge that will haunt him all his life.

The rules are there to not only protect the health of your friend, but those he will serve with.  Having an asthma attack in garrison is different than having one while you are part of a team that depends on you.

If I knew who your friend was I would start calling all the recruiting offices in the area to alert them to him and his possible fraud.  They would flag him and he would not even get a "hello" from any recruiter anywhere.

Come on.....you are a CAP member and are supposed to know the core values here.  The Air Force has the same values and moral system we do.  Why would you knowingly break that code??

[Irishrenegade]

Ok for those of you who have not figured it out that "friend" is me....


I never want to lie and I have been to a million recruiters and they all give me different answers but I always get the you cant even get to MEPS because you are inferior and can never be apart of this nations military...it blows and it hurts alot.

I know its more them protecting me and those I would serve with but s*** give me a freakin chance and if I cant hack it in boot camp then kick me out.

What makes it worse is having people come up to me saying they dont respect me when i say i cant go in without getting a chance to explain myself to them that I have a medical issue.

I have never lied to a recruiter and I will never and this was more of a getting others opinions on the issue. Spike this is directed at you...I know the core values and i would never lie!! I just want the opportunity to be looked at instead of being thrown out like i was yesterdays leftovers (had plenty of women already do that to me...i dont need anyone else doing it lolol)

OK im done ranting...im frustrated as heck now so im gonna relieve that stress with a 8 mile run...maybe more if I need it

[Flying Pig]

The issue is going to come up when your friend is in MOPP gear running for the qual, in the gas chamber, in the field, taking a PFT in August, etc. When he has an issue, he's short of breath and gasping, he's not going to say, "I don't know whats happening to me."  He's going to grab someone by the shirt and gasp, "I have asthma help me!"  because he will be dying and will need oxygen ASAP.  Field medics don't carry O2.
Again, if he's honest about his deal, and they let him in, then go for it.

[Irishrenegade]

and Id like to finish my side of this rant with one last thing...

thanks mom and dad for smoking your entire lives and quitting right before giving birth to me...

[Al Sayre]

One thing you  might consider is being re-evaluated by a different doctor.  I know of two or three people who were told they had "asthma" for most of their young lives, however when they got away from home in a different area, it almost magically went away.  It turned out that they had some specific plant allergies that manifested in athsma-like symptoms, and once they got away from the area where the plants were common, the problem was solved.  A complete check by an allergist or lung specialist might not be a bad idea.  If it turns out to be an allergy, then you can truthfully state that you don't have athsma.

[raivo]

Fraudulent enlistment is a very bad idea. There are signs all around MEPS advising you of this, and you will have to sign several forms affirming that you haven't knowingly concealed anything from your application. If something disqualifying comes up during your career, that you didn't know about (this happened to a friend of mine), then that's a different story. If they find out you knew about it and concealed it, after they've spent time and money you... hello, Leavenworth! Seriously, don't do it.

So here's what I suggest. Here's the USAF regulation governing recruiting: http://www.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/AFRSI36-2001.pdf - I believe you want section 2.10. Follow the trail of regulations, until you find the specific rule covering asthma. If it's a permanent disqualifier that can't be waived... then, you're out of luck. (And to be honest, I suspect this is the case if you're getting the same answer from multiple recruiters.) IF it can be waived, talk to your recruiter again, and cite the regulation stating so, and tell him you would at least like to try.

If there's no way around it... as mentioned, there are many other ways to serve. There's always the CIA/NSA/FBI/DoJ as well as the DoD and its subdepartments (DISA, NRO, DSS, et al.)

[vmstan]

I had it figured out that your friend was you about 10 words into your initial posting.

You have asthma, it sucks, but you live with it. There a plenty of other jobs in police and government that you can do with it, being in the military is not one of them.

There is always CAP... although I would suggest you quit with the lies.

[Cecil DP]

You've had several good suggestions made to handle the situation

1. Don't lie to your recruiter. He will do his best to get you a waiver , and it will require your giving him and the doctors at MEPS a look at your medical records.

2. If he told you to lie, he should be reported to the Recruiting Bn Commander. He'll be out of the service in a flash.

3. It was mentioned that you may just have an allergy and been misdiagnosed. Have your physician investigate that.

4. If you get in without telling anyone about the asthma-(yes it's on the medical form  under have you ever had) you will be released from the service as a fraudulent enlistee. This is not a discharge, because of (the to be kind) omission, you never legally enlisted.

5. Try to enlist in a NG unit. If they want you they're easier to get the waiver from.

[Spike]

5. Try to enlist in a NG unit. If they want you they're easier to get the waiver from.

So are you saying NG is for those who would not make it on AD?        That is what it sounds like. 

All matters aside, I am sorry life is not being fair to you.  Life is not fair to anyone.  We all take our disappointments and misadventures the same way.  The "why me" question, followed by anger, then the brain begins thinking of ways to game the system that cheated us, finally we all accept the situation.

Finally,  be honest to us on here.  We all knew it was you when you said "friend".  We would have respected you more should you came to us with the truth. 

Now, with you admitting it was you, not your Friend, and all of us knowing your location, there may be some on here that now take matters into their own hands and contact the local recruiters.  I am sorry, but that is how public forums like this operate.

[Irishrenegade]

well my friend is also in my situation as well back in NY so it was a double take on the situation...as for people going to recruiters...thats odd because I NEVER ONCE SAID I would lie. I dont believe in lying at all and would never lie to a recruiter...


this forum got way out of hand. sorry