Do seniors use grade when speaking to other seniors?

[RiverAux]

In another thread it has recently been asserted that the experiences of myself and another CAP member in observing that senior members rarely use another person's grade when talking to or about them is outside the norm of CAP.  Given the prevalence of this particular observation on CAPTalk, I'm surprised that this other person was surprised by these comments.  And given that person's usual "cite please" posts, I thought a poll was in order.

Now, for the purpose of this poll, lump together all your private and public interactions with other CAP members while on CAP duty when deciding which option to pick.  So, think about what you see at meetings when 1 senior refers to another.  Do they use that person's first name or their CAP grade and last name?  Does the squadron commander use someone's grade when talking about them in front of the group or their first name? 

I'm predicting that Sometimes will come in first, then Rarely, then Usually. 

[Eclipse]

And given that person's usual "cite please" posts

Heh - "That person" (could that be an award like TMFT?)

Lord forbid people back up their opinions with facts...

[JeffDG]

Is this predicated on the absence of cadets?

[Eclipse]

Is this predicated on the absence of cadets?

Why should that matter?

[JeffDG]

Is this predicated on the absence of cadets?

Why should that matter?

In my observation, seniors use grade more frequently in the presence of cadets than when you're in a pure-senior environment.

[Eclipse]

Is this predicated on the absence of cadets?

Why should that matter?

In my observation, seniors use grade more frequently in the presence of cadets than when you're in a pure-senior environment.

Sadly, I can't disagree, but I would put forth that this is due to a weakness in expectations and poor initial training.

[coudano]

I'll use grade when speaking about another senior member to a cadet.

Or when speaking about another senior member that outranks me, although there aren't that many of those, and I generally don't talk about them much (if ever).

Equal or lower rank is typically first name basis unless cadets are around, or for some reason the circumstance calls for more formality.

[RiverAux]

Assume that we're talking about senior behavior in the absence of cadets.

[SARDOC]

In our squadron among Senior Members very rarely use rank for other senior members in house.  We are very informal when conducting our meetings and training sessions. 

[RiverAux]

And given that person's usual "cite please" posts

Heh - "That person" (could that be an award like TMFT?)

Lord forbid people back up their opinions with facts...

Just gigging you,  while at the same time working to back up my argument with the best facts available. 

[Spaceman3750]

In our squadron among Senior Members very rarely use rank for other senior members in house.  We are very informal when conducting our meetings and training sessions.

Same here, my squadron is pretty informal.

[Eclipse]

And given that person's usual "cite please" posts

Heh - "That person" (could that be an award like TMFT?)

Lord forbid people back up their opinions with facts...

Just gigging you,  while at the same time working to back up my argument with the best facts available.

I know, but I was serious - that'd be cool to be listed as "that guy" in the award section...

[lordmonar]

Is this predicated on the absence of cadets?

Why should that matter?

In my observation, seniors use grade more frequently in the presence of cadets than when you're in a pure-senior environment.

Sadly, I can't disagree, but I would put forth that this is due to a weakness in expectations and poor initial training.

No...I put this down to that most seniors understand that they are trying to teach something different to the cadets then what we are teaching to seniors.

I don't teach "military disciplin and C&C" to seniors.  We just don't use it that much.....amongst ourselves.  Those that want to learn it do.  I do teach CP seniors all about it though...because of their intractions with cadets.

[tsrup]

I use grade whenever there are other people around.  If I'm one on one with someone who is lower rank than myself then I might omit it for brevity's sake, it depends on what's appropriate.  However whenever in a group, I address everyone by grade.  I don't like being called by my first name in front of people junior to myself, and I don't presume to do it to anyone else. 

[jpizzo127]

During squadron meetings, it's required. We encourage it whenever in uniform and especially in public and in front of cadets.

[CAP_truth]

I have always address senior officer inside or outside of CAP activites by their grade,even in private. I do converse with follow officers of equal grade on a first name basis during informal conversations when cadets are not present. Always using grade during formal conversations.

[RiverAux]

I have always address senior officer inside or outside of CAP activites by their grade,even in private. I do converse with follow officers of equal grade on a first name basis during informal conversations when cadets are not present. Always using grade during formal conversations.

Keep in mind this isn't about what YOU do, but what you SEE...

[Dad2-4]

I have to say a positive "sometimes". When at meetings or talking about CAP stuff I personally always use rank and last name when talking to SM and cadets alike. What I see other SM doing is more lax, maybe a 50% split between rank and first name. That is often tempered by how well one SM knows another.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I couldn't say if they DO, however, I think that they should. That is just my opinion, but to me CAP is a professional place and time, and it should be conducted as such, then again I grew up in CAP then went Army, and am now CAP again, and it has just been ingrained in me through all these years that you use rank when there is rank. I don't talk about other SMs without their rank, heck when I talk to my commander on the phone, I call him Sir, no matter what the discussion is about.

[SARDOC]

During squadron meetings, it's required. We encourage it whenever in uniform and especially in public and in front of cadets.

So what do you do when members don't comply?

[JeffDG]

That is just my opinion, but to me CAP is a professional place and time, and it should be conducted as such,

So? 

Use of first names does not denote non-professionalism.  In my office environment, an entirely professional place for which I am paid handsomely to act in a professional way, my co-workers are referred to by their first names, as is my manager, my VP and my Senior VP whom I report to.

Often I'm referred to by my last name, but that's because there are three "Jeffs" on my team, and it's just a lot easier than having 3 people answer!

[SARDOC]

That is just my opinion, but to me CAP is a professional place and time, and it should be conducted as such,

So? 

Use of first names does not denote non-professionalism.  In my office environment, an entirely professional place for which I am paid handsomely to act in a professional way, my co-workers are referred to by their first names, as is my manager, my VP and my Senior VP whom I report to.

Often I'm referred to by my last name, but that's because there are three "Jeffs" on my team, and it's just a lot easier than having 3 people answer!

I agree...even when working in certain military communities we frequently used first names among people I would consider the ultimate professionals.

[Eclipse]

Addressing other members by first name (or worse), doesn't, specifically, denote a lack of professionalism, however it can be one symptom
in larger problems, and the lack of courtesies and proper address is something you will nearly always see in failing units.

The expectation of formality is supposed to remind you we are more than a club.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Addressing other members by first name (or worse), doesn't, specifically, denote a lack of professionalism, however it can be one symptom
in larger problems, and the lack of courtesies and proper address is something you will nearly always see in failing units.

The expectation of formality is supposed to remind you we are more than a club.

Thank you, you hit my point faster and better than I could.

[JeffDG]

Addressing other members by first name (or worse), doesn't, specifically, denote a lack of professionalism, however it can be one symptom
in larger problems, and the lack of courtesies and proper address is something you will nearly always see in failing units.

The expectation of formality is supposed to remind you we are more than a club.

Alternatively, a unit with very strong cohesion will behave exactly the same way.  They don't need grade to tell them who's been around for a long time, they all understand the other unit member's contribution to the organization.

[Eclipse]

Addressing other members by first name (or worse), doesn't, specifically, denote a lack of professionalism, however it can be one symptom
in larger problems, and the lack of courtesies and proper address is something you will nearly always see in failing units.

The expectation of formality is supposed to remind you we are more than a club.

Alternatively, a unit with very strong cohesion will behave exactly the same way.  They don't need grade to tell them who's been around for a long time, they all understand the other unit member's contribution to the organization.

That's a reasonable assumption, and even holds true in some cases.  How many do you have in your wing, like that? There's not many like that in mine, none that I know of, actually.

These members might be comfortable in their own confines, and work well together, but few wings have units which can respond during ES or run major cadet activities by themselves, and when these "cohesive" members use the same approach during a major exercise or real-world, that's where the problems start.

[RiverAux]

That is just my opinion, but to me CAP is a professional place and time, and it should be conducted as such,

So? 

Use of first names does not denote non-professionalism.  In my office environment, an entirely professional place for which I am paid handsomely to act in a professional way, my co-workers are referred to by their first names, as is my manager, my VP and my Senior VP whom I report to.

In a civilian environment use of Mr./Mrs or some other company title is generally not expected, therefore not using them doesn't denote a lack of professionalism.  In the military and CAP, use of such titles is expected and therefore not using them does indicate a certain lack of professionalism.  Different cultures, different rules, different expectations. 

[Ford73Diesel]

Most CAP SM's I see use first or last names with no rank. Around cadets they use grade. That is personally what I do. I also will call someone by their grade the first time I meet them, and every time they have given me something else to call them..

In my reserve unit pretty much the only people that get called by their grade are (some )E-6 and up. The rest is first or last name, or a colorful nickname. The only people using the proper forms of address for everyone is the E-2s and E-3s fresh from boot camp, but that stops quickly. I don't think it makes us any less professional. We can be formal if we need to be.

[RiverAux]

I'm predicting that Sometimes will come in first, then Rarely, then Usually.

Well, I'll admit it when I'm wrong -- "Rarely" is ahead of Sometimes, but just barely.  Usually is, as expected, so far back as to not even be in the race.

[Sapper168]

I can honestly say that i use grade and last name as in Cpt So-and-So.  I even do it when talking about cadets.  Old brainwashing ...err... i mean...indoctrination ... i mean... HABITS are hard to break!

[MajFitzpatrick]

I think it really depends on the environment. I was going to just bash with the, "You should always use it." But some good points were brought up on when and where, like in the office. It may be just fine to use last names, or first names, depending on what is being done and where, and who is listening. But really we should always act as if the "boss" is watching. Be that the Squadron commander, the Wing Commander, ect. I do have some Senior members call me by my first name, and we are family friends outside CAP. But really I feel when they don't address me by my rank, its demeaning and them trying to assert some sort of power, even if I outrank them. On the other hand, two of my closest friends that are of my same age are in the squadron, and when ever we are in uniform, they never address me without proper rank and title. I am not better than them, and I look to them for advice and help always. I might out rank them, but it gets back to that basic concept. In this culture, addressing by rank is something that we do to show mutual respect. I am not conceding I am lower of a person than a LtCol. or a Col. I am merely stating that, the person has earned that title, and since I subscribe to the same system of rank, I acknowledge and show that respect. And though I might outrank all the Lts and Capts. I will still turn around and show them the respect for their rank and title as professionals within the organization. It may not be disrespectful in anyway by calling them Bill or Christine, but I am also not out on the town with them when I am at a meeting or activity.

[jpizzo127]

During squadron meetings, it's required. We encourage it whenever in uniform and especially in public and in front of cadets.

So what do you do when members don't comply?

A simple reminder in private does the trick.
It's never gone beyond that. The policy is generally embraced wholeheartedly here.

[mjbernier]

I chose "sometimes" -- I've noticed that whenever our Seniors are around Cadets they will always address each other by grade, but when it's just Seniors in the room they are somewhat more relaxed. Personally, I always address members by grade whenever we're in uniform (mainly out of respect for the uniform - something my dad taught me when I was a kid), but when we aren't in uniform I tend to be less formal.

I find that our e-mails tend to follow the same pattern. If there are any cadets on the distribution list or the message goes to someone outside the squadron, addressing by grade is always used; but, when it's just seniors involved we tend to use first names only.

Just my two cents.

Mike

[NCRblues]

I think our SM grade structure is a little muddled. Like a CFI coming in as a CAPT. A 1st Lt who has been in cap years and year, first as a cadet then as a SM, holds vastly more CAP knowledge than that CFI does. I'm not sure the reasoning behind making a CFI a Capt, and it is a little odd when you start to talk to someone who is a captain or a major about regs (or other cap related things) and they say "uh...im new, I have no idea what your talking about".

I have had many SM's quit after only a year or 2 in the program because of things like this.... just MHO.

[JeffDG]

I think our SM grade structure is a little muddled. Like a CFI coming in as a CAPT. A 1st Lt who has been in cap years and year, first as a cadet then as a SM, holds vastly more CAP knowledge than that CFI does. I'm not sure the reasoning behind making a CFI a Capt, and it is a little odd when you start to talk to someone who is a captain or a major about regs (or other cap related things) and they say "uh...im new, I have no idea what your talking about".

I have had many SM's quit after only a year or 2 in the program because of things like this.... just MHO.

You know what might work for that...perhaps instead of granting "CAPT" to a CFI, waive the time-in-grade to CAPT, so, once they achieve L1, they get 2nd Lt.  Once they get a Technician they get 1st Lt, and Level 2 gets them Capt.  If they can finish all that in 6 months, great!  But it would tell you that any Capt has SLS at least and a technician rating...

[titanII]

You know what might work for that...perhaps instead of granting "CAPT" to a CFI, waive the time-in-grade to CAPT, so, once they achieve L1, they get 2nd Lt.  Once they get a Technician they get 1st Lt, and Level 2 gets them Capt.  If they can finish all that in 6 months, great!  But it would tell you that any Capt has SLS at least and a technician rating...

I think that's a really good idea. It would provide advanced promotions to those who deserve it, while filling in all the gaps :clap:

[RADIOMAN015]

Always (at least) try to use  rank last name with all seniors when cadets are around.  Otherwise, first name basis BUT will modify at times depending upon the circumstances.
RM       

[EMT-83]

I think our SM grade structure is a little muddled. Like a CFI coming in as a CAPT. A 1st Lt who has been in cap years and year, first as a cadet then as a SM, holds vastly more CAP knowledge than that CFI does. I'm not sure the reasoning behind making a CFI a Capt, and it is a little odd when you start to talk to someone who is a captain or a major about regs (or other cap related things) and they say "uh...im new, I have no idea what your talking about".

I have had many SM's quit after only a year or 2 in the program because of things like this.... just MHO.

A CFI doesn't come in as a captain; he comes in as a Senior Member and needs to learn the program like any other new member.

Promotions aren't automatic. They should happen when the member has demonstrated they are "... performing in an exemplary manner meriting promotion to the grade recommended."

[NCRblues]

I think our SM grade structure is a little muddled. Like a CFI coming in as a CAPT. A 1st Lt who has been in cap years and year, first as a cadet then as a SM, holds vastly more CAP knowledge than that CFI does. I'm not sure the reasoning behind making a CFI a Capt, and it is a little odd when you start to talk to someone who is a captain or a major about regs (or other cap related things) and they say "uh...im new, I have no idea what your talking about".

I have had many SM's quit after only a year or 2 in the program because of things like this.... just MHO.

A CFI doesn't come in as a captain; he comes in as a Senior Member and needs to learn the program like any other new member.

Promotions aren't automatic. They should happen when the member has demonstrated they are "... performing in an exemplary manner meriting promotion to the grade recommended."

Unfortunately in my area, commanders use advanced rank as a recruitment tool. I can not tell you the amount of times I have come across "oh your a CFI, well you can come in as a CAPT."

If i was running the show it would not be this way, but I am not....at least not yet...

[Eclipse]

It's interesting how the grade is used as a recruiting tool, but no one seems to realize that goes both ways.

I've had more than a few situations where someone with advanced grade were found to be lacking in very basic CAP knowledge on a regular
basis, which isn't the greatest thing for the moral of either the member or those who need to deal with him.

[SARDOC]

It's interesting how the grade is used as a recruiting tool, but no one seems to realize that goes both ways.

I've had more than a few situations where someone with advanced grade were found to be lacking in very basic CAP knowledge on a regular
basis, which isn't the greatest thing for the moral of either the member or those who need to deal with him.

We have so many retired officers in our area...most of them would be eligible for Lieutenant Colonel almost immediately so the group made a requirement that they at least get a specialty track technician rating before we would even submit the paperwork for the advanced grade so hopefully they will have demonstrated a little commitment and have a little understanding of what CAP is and does before they get the gold or silver oak leaf.

[lordmonar]

You know...that adding requirements to the promotion regulations is....against the promotion regulation.

[SARDOC]

As far as Mission Skills appointment promotions for PPL's they have to form 5 before submission, for CFI's they have to become a  CAP Check Pilot.  In other words the skill for which they are getting promoted they have to use it and demonstrate proficiency.  We were tired of getting retired commercial pilots coming in getting promoted to Capt with absolutely no intention to fly with us.

[SARDOC]

You know...that adding requirements to the promotion regulations is....against the promotion regulation.

Not the way I read it.  It says for all these promotions that you must have the recommendation by your unit commander.  If you don't use that skill...you don't get the recommendation.   


Added

CAPR 35-5   4.2 d. The member must also be certified by the unit commander as contributing his or her
special skills to the mission of CAP and performing in an exemplary manner meriting promotion
to the grade recommended.

[RiverAux]

Topic?

[Eclipse]

You know...that adding objective requirements to the promotion regulations is....against the promotion regulation.

i.e. "You must be on Group staff to be a Major", "...take the UCC for the commander appointment...", etc., but a higher echelon is
always free to use the subjective "you're not ready".

Also what SARDOC said. 

[lordmonar]

Wrong Para:

3-4. Regular and Reserve Officers of the Armed Forces. Regular, Reserve, and National Guard Officers of the Armed Forces or Coast Guard of the United States, active, retired or resigned, may be advanced to a CAP grade equivalent to their grade in the Armed Forces (but not to exceed lieutenant colonel), in recognition of their military knowledge and experience. Such promotions are neither automatic nor mandatory, but are at the discretion of the promoting authority outlined in paragraph 1-5. Additionally, individuals who obtained the grade of warrant officer may be promoted to the CAP grade shown in figure 3 below. NOTE: The unit commander will initiate initial promotion to officer grade based on prior military service only where proper documentation for that grade exists (a copy of DD Form 214, military identification card, or promotion order showing the grade requested is considered sufficient).

and

1-1. General. Criteria for promotion of CAP senior members will be applied uniformly throughout Civil Air Patrol. CAP unit supplements to this regulation in the form of publications or oral instructions that change the basic policies, criteria, procedures, and practices prescribed herein are prohibited.

Sorry....saying you must have a group job or complete your tech rateing for advanced promotion is a violation of para 1-1.

[lordmonar]

Topic?

Really? 

[SARDOC]

Wrong Para:

3-4. Regular and Reserve Officers of the Armed Forces. Regular, Reserve, and National Guard Officers of the Armed Forces or Coast Guard of the United States, active, retired or resigned, may be advanced to a CAP grade equivalent to their grade in the Armed Forces (but not to exceed lieutenant colonel), in recognition of their military knowledge and experience. Such promotions are neither automatic nor mandatory, but are at the discretion of the promoting authority outlined in paragraph 1-5. Additionally, individuals who obtained the grade of warrant officer may be promoted to the CAP grade shown in figure 3 below. NOTE: The unit commander will initiate initial promotion to officer grade based on prior military service only where proper documentation for that grade exists (a copy of DD Form 214, military identification card, or promotion order showing the grade requested is considered sufficient).

and

1-1. General. Criteria for promotion of CAP senior members will be applied uniformly throughout Civil Air Patrol. CAP unit supplements to this regulation in the form of publications or oral instructions that change the basic policies, criteria, procedures, and practices prescribed herein are prohibited.

Sorry....saying you must have a group job or complete your tech rateing for advanced promotion is a violation of para 1-1.

I didn't say they must have a group job.  Just that our group won't recommend advanced promotion until the member demonstrates some commitment and understanding of our organization by achieving a technician rating as noted in your first quote.  It is uniform throughout Civil Air Patrol that it's the discretion of the promoting authority.  If they want to transfer to another area that has a different promoting authority that's up to them.  I've never seen anyone do that and these people are professional enough that they understand the requirement and nobody has ever challenged it.

Sorry for going off thread...Bringing us back.  With as many Military and prior service military in my area our membership is approximately 80% prior service.   We all call each other by rank and last name where cadets are involved.  But refer to each other by first names to establish a better rapport with each other.  It works better for us instead of trying to exert ranks and titles by getting our membership to buy in to the program and feel like their commitment is personally recognized.  I know ranks and titles are important for some people but we in our area get better results by the first name because it's more welcoming (especially for our prior service folks)   I think it's important and may change based on your locale.  It's important to know your audience.   Thanks  -out-

[lordmonar]

On the topic of grade......we do the same here.

In front of cadets we follow strict military protocol....but everywhere else it is usualy just first names....there are a few exceptions (like visinting CAP dignitaries and military officers).

[Eclipse]

Sorry....saying you must have a group job or complete your tech rateing for advanced promotion is a violation of para 1-1.

That's exactly what I said.

[AC]

I use grade whenever there are other people around.  If I'm one on one with someone who is lower rank than myself then I might omit it for brevity's sake, it depends on what's appropriate.  However whenever in a group, I address everyone by grade.  I don't like being called by my first name in front of people junior to myself, and I don't presume to do it to anyone else.

+1  I feel the same way, Captain.

AC

[flyguy06]

Why do you base using a person's grade based on if a cadet is present or not? No where in "foundations" does it say that. You should do it even if there are no cadets around. You should especially do it if talking to or about a Squadron, Group or higher Commander. I here people call my Wing Commander byher first name all the time and I think its disrespectful. I call my Squadron Commander by his rank when addresssing him. and he is a friend of mine but when on the job (CAP) we play the game.

[SarDragon]

Different strokes for different folks.

[flyguy06]

Different strokes for different folks.

Different strokes for different folks? THIS is an "organization" that means we have rules to follow and cant choose the rules we want to follow and choose the ones we dont want to follow.

Thats why we dont get much respect. Because members just do what "they" feel" they want to do. And they do this because there is no fear of consequences.

[Spaceman3750]

Different strokes for different folks.

Different strokes for different folks? THIS is an "organization" that means we have rules to follow and cant choose the rules we want to follow and choose the ones we dont want to follow.

Thats why we dont get much respect. Because members just do what "they" feel" they want to do. And they do this because there is no fear of consequences.

There's a rule somewhere (as in an R-series publication, not a pamphlet of recommended practices) that says all members must address each other by grade?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I use grade whenever there are other people around.  If I'm one on one with someone who is lower rank than myself then I might omit it for brevity's sake, it depends on what's appropriate.  However whenever in a group, I address everyone by grade.  I don't like being called by my first name in front of people junior to myself, and I don't presume to do it to anyone else.

+1  I feel the same way, Captain.

AC

As do I.

However, it's almost endemic.  I am a Captain, soon (hopefully) to be a Major, and it's almost normative in my unit for second and first lieutenants to address me and other officers by first name.  The squadron CC, an LtCol, is the only one who consistently addresses us by rank, even in e-mails.

It's not correct protocol, of course, but what am I going to say?  I like these people, and I hope they like me.  I don't want to be seen as a Frank Burns type shoving my railway tracks down everyone's throat.

The only ones in my unit who consistently use rank, "sir" or "ma'am" outside of the CC are cadets.

It wasn't always that way.  My first unit, where I served from 1993-1999, always used rank - no exceptions.  It was the same way at Wing activities.  It only changed when I moved and joined a senior squadron where very few cared about advancing in rank; most were lifetime second lieutenants...it was a bit of a shock.

[johnnyb47]

Different strokes for different folks.

Different strokes for different folks? THIS is an "organization" that means we have rules to follow and cant choose the rules we want to follow and choose the ones we dont want to follow.

Thats why we dont get much respect. Because members just do what "they" feel" they want to do. And they do this because there is no fear of consequences.

There's a rule somewhere (as in an R-series publication, not a pamphlet of recommended practices) that says all members must address each other by grade?

From CAPP 151
d. Respect for Authority. As a general rule, highest ranking
personnel enter an aircraft or automobile last and leave
first. Junior ranking personnel will walk to the left of seniors.
Unless otherwise authorized, subordinates will stand in the
presence of senior officer personnel. When senior personnel
enter a room, subordinates will stand up unless a person of
higher rank is already in the room. In the military, a senior in
rank may address a subordinate by his or her first name;
however, it is inappropriate for a subordinate to communicate
in such an informal manner. Similar respect should be shown
for grades in Civil Air Patrol.

Precisely what I meant. this is all i could find and it is, IMHO wishy washy on the subject.

[lordmonar]

Different strokes for different folks.

Different strokes for different folks? THIS is an "organization" that means we have rules to follow and cant choose the rules we want to follow and choose the ones we dont want to follow.

Thats why we dont get much respect. Because members just do what "they" feel" they want to do. And they do this because there is no fear of consequences.

It is no different in the "real" USAF.

We have the printed letter of the law.....but we also have our everyday activities.  It is not the end of the world if we talk to each other like friends and coworkers......when appropriate.

[SarDragon]

Well said, Pat. Or was I supposed to say Major Harris? Should we take this all the way to date of rank?   

[lordmonar]

Well said, Pat. Or was I supposed to say Major Harris? Should we take this all the way to date of rank?   

I prefer "My Lord".....but since this is just CAP.....

[Eclipse]

Well said, Pat. Or was I supposed to say Major Harris? Should we take this all the way to date of rank?   

"Sir" usually does the trick.

[Short Field]

In the RM, Senior Field Graders tend to use first names between themselves.  Most company graders tend to use first names - 2nd Lt being the exception...  Of course you don't do it in front of a group of airmen...

I get to use first names with all but two or three people in the wing - and even then ...

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^My experience is that the Guard and Reserve tend to be a lot more flexible on this than the active duty.

Not really surprising, since Guard and Reserve troops tend to serve together longer and get to know one another a bit better than many AD troops.

Our former squadron CC sometimes looked surprised when I'd encounter him outdoors, salute him and say "good evening, Sir."

[SAR-EMT1]

Is this predicated on the absence of cadets?

Why should that matter?

In my observation, seniors use grade more frequently in the presence of cadets than when you're in a pure-senior environment.

This has been my experience also. Rank/last name near cadets, first names otherwise.

[Private Investigator]

i.e. "You must be on Group staff to be a Major", "...take the UCC for the commander appointment...", etc., but a higher echelon is
always free to use the subjective "you're not ready".

I had to comment regarding Group Staff. I remember hearing to get a Senior rating in anything you had to be Group Staff, Master ratings for Wing Staff or higher.

Back on topic; every Squadron, Group is different. Some Units really put the "military" in paramilitary. Some Units is more closely related to the boy scouts than the USAF.

[Salty]

From my experience in the USAF and CAP you almost never heard someone referred to by rank unless it was a junior grade talking to a senior grade.  Unless somebody was watching, senior grades almost never referred to a junior grade by rank.  It was always by first name.

[Eclipse]

i.e. "You must be on Group staff to be a Major", "...take the UCC for the commander appointment...", etc., but a higher echelon is
always free to use the subjective "you're not ready".

I had to comment regarding Group Staff. I remember hearing to get a Senior rating in anything you had to be Group Staff, Master ratings for Wing Staff or higher.

I'm not sure how you meant that - meaning you heard the same wives tale or that is what you're hearing from your wing currently.  While there are some ratings that call out very specific staff postings, generally this is not the case, and ultimately it is the approving commander who decides when and if you have fulfilled the respective requirements.

[Cadet Idoni]

I would say that 30 to 95% of the time they do.