NB meeting agenda

[Eclipse]

Adult members can readily place on the medical form "Emergency Medical Information available for access in (my wallet, upper right shirt pocket, etc) IF required".  That's all that needs to be put there.  Also from a practical standpoint, in most squadrons we pretty much know about the medical issues on our members IF any emergency occurs.  OR they again can tell us IF I go down, check my wallet for emergency medical information. 

You are free to do that, and the activity director is free to refuse your application.

As to "pretty much know" - that is the point.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Those of us who have chronic medical conditions enough to warrant hospitalisation if necessary usually wear a Medic-Alert bracelet or "dogtag."

There are medications I'm allergic to, and something like that should go on a Medic-Alert.  My mother was allergic to penicillin and sulfa to the point that giving her either of those could have killed her.  She always wore a Medic-Alert.  That's one of the first things that paramedics, EMT's and ER doctors/nurses look for.  It's kind of like wearing a Form 60 all the time.

Something like that would be a lot better than what NB is proposing.

[jks19714]

I think that one thing is certain -- accumulating personal information brings an accompanying responsibility (and liability).  The Boy Scouts might be doing it, but each State has its own Constitution and body of law to be taken into consideration.

IANAL, but observation will reveal that all it takes is one disclosure, an angry member (or ex-member) and an attorney to initiate a suit.  Win, lose or draw, you lose ($$).  I hope that CAP takes into consideration the liability this might entail and the need to protect its corporate officers.

It will be interesting to see what, if anything, the attorneys have to say.  Pilots are already covered, so I'm not sure that I understand what the impetus for this is.

john

[RiverAux]

Until and unless NHQ is going to pay for the physicals, they will have a hard time making things stick

Doubtful.  Just think of the millions of kids that have to get a physical every year before participating in school sports programs.  Everyone should be getting a physical every year anyway, so it shouldn't be any big deal to have the doc sign a form saying you're good to go or not. 

[arajca]

Until and unless NHQ is going to pay for the physicals, they will have a hard time making things stick

Doubtful.  Just think of the millions of kids that have to get a physical every year before participating in school sports programs.  Everyone should be getting a physical every year anyway, so it shouldn't be any big deal to have the doc sign a form saying you're good to go or not.

From what I read, it's not a matterof the doc saying yes or no, they want to know what conditions you have.

[SARDOC]

Requiring a Physical is not completely unheard of especially if you expect to be covered by insurance in the case anything happens to you.  They will need to establish guidelines and physical standards to every aspect of CAP to determine who can do which jobs.  Every ES job will need to be evaluated.  I'm just curious if CAP is aware of what it will cost to manage a program like this and if the benefit is really worth the cost not to mention that a few volunteers will leave instead of submitting health information and others because they don't want to pay anywhere from $75 -$1000 for the privilege of providing a service.  I know my Health Insurance doesn't cover general physicals so I would have to pay out of pocket and with certain health issues I know my physical would cost about $300 bucks for the associated testing.  I think that would effectively make me have to leave CAP even though I'm physically capable of performing most ES missions...just thinking about it.

[RiverAux]

Funny that they're considering physicals, but haven't moved anywhere on actual fitness tests for ground teams as will be required at some point as the national SAR standards are being developed. 

[RADIOMAN015]

Adult members can readily place on the medical form "Emergency Medical Information available for access in (my wallet, upper right shirt pocket, etc) IF required".  That's all that needs to be put there.  Also from a practical standpoint, in most squadrons we pretty much know about the medical issues on our members IF any emergency occurs.  OR they again can tell us IF I go down, check my wallet for emergency medical information. 

You are free to do that, and the activity director is free to refuse your application.

As to "pretty much know" - that is the point.

Yep, done it already for activities with NO issues whatsoever.  This isn't the military and frankly for any classroom type activities that CAP form 17 is much too intrusive
"......Block 21 (CAPF 17 instructions): List physical handicaps or ailments for which the applicant will be taking medication during the activity or which might affect the applicant's level of participation in activities. Provide a list of medication taken regularly.  Use Additional Remarks section or add additional sheet if necessary......."

I didn't know that all these activity directors have MD degrees and can evaluate anything medically -- CAP lacks enough medical specialists to adequately review the information provided anyways. Most CAP training is of short duration and again a good description of the physical aspects/requirements, IF ANY should be include in the course description PHYSICAL & MENTAL REQUIREMENTS (this would be a VERY prudent action, to ensure compliance with various federal laws, that CAP must comply with)  and the adult member self certifies he/she meets these requirements.   Anyone who's got chronic medical issues knows their limitations and I highly doubt most are going to get themselves injured or killed at some CAP activity. 
RM 

[RADIOMAN015]

Ok, here it is....
I find agenda items 2 thru 4 very interesting.

Thank you -- Wouldn't it be great IF there's was an agenda item basically stating for the next year, no implementation action will be taken on anything proposed that will cost the general membership either more time or more money :angel:    So if you add any requirements you have to reduce others so that it equals out.
RM

[RiverAux]

What do you guys think of Items 10 & 11 that would create either a "temporarily inactive" or "Reserve" membership category that would exempt the person in that category from all the mandatory stuff and impose some restrictions on participation?  In this form, I'm not seeing any real benefits that wouldn't be derived from just moving them over to Patron.

I have promoted a "Reserve" concept in the past, but this wasn't what I was going for.

[FW]

^A "temporarily inactive" or Reserve membership category doesn't make much sense to me as, it does seem like "Patron" membership status pretty much covers the bases.  However, if you change the definition of Patron status a bit, I think what the authors of the agenda items are looking for would be satisfied. 

[Eclipse]

^A "temporarily inactive" or Reserve membership category doesn't make much sense to me as, it does seem like "Patron" membership status pretty much covers the bases.  However, if you change the definition of Patron status a bit, I think what the authors of the agenda items are looking for would be satisfied.

The main difference being the wear of uniforms, which seems to be "important" for people who otherwise can't be bothered to show up to a meeting or do a few online tests.

[Eclipse]

Adult members can readily place on the medical form "Emergency Medical Information available for access in (my wallet, upper right shirt pocket, etc) IF required".  That's all that needs to be put there.  Also from a practical standpoint, in most squadrons we pretty much know about the medical issues on our members IF any emergency occurs.  OR they again can tell us IF I go down, check my wallet for emergency medical information. 

You are free to do that, and the activity director is free to refuse your application.

As to "pretty much know" - that is the point.

Yep, done it already for activities with NO issues whatsoever.  This isn't the military and frankly for any classroom type activities that CAP form 17 is much too intrusive
"......Block 21 (CAPF 17 instructions): List physical handicaps or ailments for which the applicant will be taking medication during the activity or which might affect the applicant's level of participation in activities. Provide a list of medication taken regularly.  Use Additional Remarks section or add additional sheet if necessary......."

I didn't know that all these activity directors have MD degrees and can evaluate anything medically -- CAP lacks enough medical specialists to adequately review the information provided anyways. Most CAP training is of short duration and again a good description of the physical aspects/requirements, IF ANY should be include in the course description PHYSICAL & MENTAL REQUIREMENTS (this would be a VERY prudent action, to ensure compliance with various federal laws, that CAP must comply with)  and the adult member self certifies he/she meets these requirements.   Anyone who's got chronic medical issues knows their limitations and I highly doubt most are going to get themselves injured or killed at some CAP activity. 

This isn't the military? Hmmm...normally you are much less definite on that subject.

Just as an FYI - not all adult members in CAP limit their participation to class-room only situations, and not all CAP activities use the Form 17 for participation, many use the 31 or something else, yes, for everyone.

[davidsinn]

^A "temporarily inactive" or Reserve membership category doesn't make much sense to me as, it does seem like "Patron" membership status pretty much covers the bases.  However, if you change the definition of Patron status a bit, I think what the authors of the agenda items are looking for would be satisfied.

Patron doesn't work for cadets does it?

[Eclipse]

This serves no purpose but ego gratification.

Two classes are all we need:

"Active" - do something "useful" for CAP on a regular basis ("useful" being a subjective term to the respective commander) comply with program mandates for training and other regulations.

"Patron" - anything not the above.

The only thing you lose as a patron is TIG, getting in and out is just paperwork.

This isn't complicated...

[RADIOMAN015]

What do you guys think of Items 10 & 11 that would create either a "temporarily inactive" or "Reserve" membership category that would exempt the person in that category from all the mandatory stuff and impose some restrictions on participation?  In this form, I'm not seeing any real benefits that wouldn't be derived from just moving them over to Patron.

I have promoted a "Reserve" concept in the past, but this wasn't what I was going for.

I wouldn't call it reserve, I would call it "inactive" membership and there would have to be a reason for it, either voluntary (which reasons coded in the system) but could be involuntary IF the Commander couldn't get them to do any training and they just weren't communicating with the unit.  Also they couldn't renew IF in that commander imposed involuntary status.

Much of this on line training requirements really aren't that difficult to do, and really doesn't take that long to accomplish.   Now how effective it is will really vary with each individual
RM

[RADIOMAN015]

Adult members can readily place on the medical form "Emergency Medical Information available for access in (my wallet, upper right shirt pocket, etc) IF required".  That's all that needs to be put there.  Also from a practical standpoint, in most squadrons we pretty much know about the medical issues on our members IF any emergency occurs.  OR they again can tell us IF I go down, check my wallet for emergency medical information. 

You are free to do that, and the activity director is free to refuse your application.

As to "pretty much know" - that is the point.

Yep, done it already for activities with NO issues whatsoever.  This isn't the military and frankly for any classroom type activities that CAP form 17 is much too intrusive
"......Block 21 (CAPF 17 instructions): List physical handicaps or ailments for which the applicant will be taking medication during the activity or which might affect the applicant's level of participation in activities. Provide a list of medication taken regularly.  Use Additional Remarks section or add additional sheet if necessary......."

I didn't know that all these activity directors have MD degrees and can evaluate anything medically -- CAP lacks enough medical specialists to adequately review the information provided anyways. Most CAP training is of short duration and again a good description of the physical aspects/requirements, IF ANY should be include in the course description PHYSICAL & MENTAL REQUIREMENTS (this would be a VERY prudent action, to ensure compliance with various federal laws, that CAP must comply with)  and the adult member self certifies he/she meets these requirements.   Anyone who's got chronic medical issues knows their limitations and I highly doubt most are going to get themselves injured or killed at some CAP activity. 

This isn't the military? Hmmm...normally you are much less definite on that subject.

Just as an FYI - not all adult members in CAP limit their participation to class-room only situations, and not all CAP activities use the Form 17 for participation, many use the 31 or something else, yes, for everyone.

I'm involved in ES also, BUT hey the first step is to determine what the physical/mental requirements (including the capability to lift objects/personnel at certain weight levels) are for each ES position.   Not sure what the value is in getting a form filled out by a senior member on a Ground Team, who is overweight with hypertension, controlled by medication.   There's nothing in the CAP regulations that would prevent his deployment into the field .   Same thing with getting a ground type typical physical, what medical standard is going to be applied to the results as far as CAP ES positions OR other training activities .   

Army Regulation 40-501 Standards of Medical Fitness, is the regulation applied to all potential military recruits reporting for examination at the various Military Entrance Processing Stations in the US.   You've got to remember that there's a fair amount of dedicated senior members in the organization that failed to meet this medical fitness standard and will NEVER be able to enter the military  BUT do want to serve their country  :clap:and CAP is their way.   
RM