BG Carr's criminal record - are you satisfied with the explanation?

[HGjunkie]

Oh, corporal punishment... reminds me of Alabama. *shudders*

[Major Lord]

In California, where the crime (allegedly) occurred, the term "Domestic Violence" appears in the penal code only in so far as it applies to a cohabitant (spouse, girl/boy friend, Ex-anything, etc) so crimes against children are not technically DM. However, the Legislature refers to the full gamut of laws protecting family members as "Domestic Violence Laws" even though the penal statutes only apply to wife beaters, etc. (unless you are in a sexual relationship and sharing rent with your children, note: see "Alabama")

The Common Law on occasion defines  things differently  than penal law. To impeach a President for instance, requires crimes or "misdemeanors" . In Kalifornia, this would mean a crime punishable by up to one year in Jail and/or a fine. In the Common Law, a "Misdemeanor" is an wrong action, and is not a crime. Most legal definitions include violence against one's own resident children as "Domestic Violence" :

domestic violence
n. the continuing crime and problem of the physical beating of a wife, girlfriend or children, usually by the woman's male partner (although it can also be female violence against a male). It is now recognized as an antisocial mental illness. Sometimes a woman's dependence, low self-esteem and fear of leaving cause her to endure this conduct or fail to protect a child. Prosecutors and police often face the problem that a battered woman will not press charges or testify due to fear, intimidation and misplaced "love." Increasingly domestic violence is attracting the sympathetic attention of law enforcement, the courts and community services, including shelters and protection for those in danger.
See also: aggravated assault  assault and battery
[/i]

If it makes someone feel better to be called a "Child Abuser" ( 273. D PC) I can live with that,  as opposed to being merely a domestic assailant (273.5 PC)

Since no one here actually knows the facts of the case, its presumptuous for us to call anyone anything, we just know that our guy was sentenced  for a misdemeanor.

The larger question is not whether the crime in question should be a disqualification from  holding an important office at NHQ, but whether the membership has full confidence that NHQ acts prudently in all cases and that all their decisions are beyond reproach. I think the answers to these questions are self-evident.

Major Lord

[bosshawk]

I knew that there was something that I liked about Arkansas.  We certainly don't have it in CA.

[flyboy53]

Keep in mind, this issue we are discussing  has absolutely NOTHING to do with domestic violence.

Wrong. It is every part of domestic violence, whether it be a child or a spouse. The issue is that it was only a misdeameanor. Therefore, one can assume several things; for example the lack of severity of the incident or the fact that the other party is partially responsible for the outcome.

The further issue is that charges such as this can be waiverable because different states have different levels of charges up to a felony for what may only be a misdemeanor in one jurisdicition.

An issue such as this is brought to everyone's attention early by NHQ to end speculation. I'm satisified. I've met the man, and have a great deal of respect for him. Keep in mind that through this dialog, we're on the fringe of making it a personal attack because it involves his family.

Besides, why now? It didn't seem to have a bearing on him as a wing commander or region commander. Therefore, it's noticed and brought to light by a drum beater who has an agenda that is ultimately distructive to the organization. So, can  we just drop this stuff.

Oh, here we go again, the cop is wrong I guess. 

No, your 100% wrong.  You dont know what your talking about.  It may be your personal definition, but not a legal one.  Again, the CAP legal experts have me shaking my head.  An altercation with your daughter IS NOT domestic violence.  Domestic violence is between a spouse, fiance, domestic partner or someone you have previously been romantically involved in.  Dont put your own view on a legal term that has a specific definition. 
We probably shouldnt spread that he was arrested or involved in a DV because CAPers dont know what they are talking about.

No you're wrong. I do know what I'm talking about. In NYS such an incident is classified as domestic violence, expecially if it is the child that is the perpetrator. If you don't believe me, than I will gladly switch places with you because the outcome for my family has been a three-year ordeal in learning to live with a child classified as bipolar I.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I thought this occured in Ohio.

In Ohio a daughter is considered a "Family member" and an assault on such a person is classified as Domestic Violence

While comparison of state laws is interesting, especially to a law geek like me, the discussion has no bearing on the fitness of BG Carr.  As I have said before, I respect BG Carr as an officer, and I think a good choice was made.

[flyboy53]

I thought this occured in Ohio.

In Ohio a daughter is considered a "Family member" and an assault on such a person is classified as Domestic Violence

While comparison of state laws is interesting, especially to a law geek like me, the discussion has no bearing on the fitness of BG Carr.  As I have said before, I respect BG Carr as an officer, and I think a good choice was made.

I couldn't agree with you more. Nuff said. Let's all drop this subject.

[Krapenhoeffer]

I've met the guy. He's pretty decent, and he made a fine Region Commander.

Like I said, it obviously wasn't that bad, or else he wouldn't be in CAP right now. Seriously, it was his teenage daughter. They have a tendency to misbehave sometimes. And yes, that is an understatement.

[Flying Pig]

Keep in mind, this issue we are discussing  has absolutely NOTHING to do with domestic violence.

Wrong. It is every part of domestic violence, whether it be a child or a spouse. The issue is that it was only a misdeameanor. Therefore, one can assume several things; for example the lack of severity of the incident or the fact that the other party is partially responsible for the outcome.

The further issue is that charges such as this can be waiverable because different states have different levels of charges up to a felony for what may only be a misdemeanor in one jurisdicition.

An issue such as this is brought to everyone's attention early by NHQ to end speculation. I'm satisified. I've met the man, and have a great deal of respect for him. Keep in mind that through this dialog, we're on the fringe of making it a personal attack because it involves his family.

Besides, why now? It didn't seem to have a bearing on him as a wing commander or region commander. Therefore, it's noticed and brought to light by a drum beater who has an agenda that is ultimately distructive to the organization. So, can  we just drop this stuff.

Oh, here we go again, the cop is wrong I guess. 

No, your 100% wrong.  You dont know what your talking about.  It may be your personal definition, but not a legal one.  Again, the CAP legal experts have me shaking my head.  An altercation with your daughter IS NOT domestic violence.  Domestic violence is between a spouse, fiance, domestic partner or someone you have previously been romantically involved in.  Dont put your own view on a legal term that has a specific definition. 
We probably shouldnt spread that he was arrested or involved in a DV because CAPers dont know what they are talking about.

No you're wrong. I do know what I'm talking about. In NYS such an incident is classified as domestic violence, expecially if it is the child that is the perpetrator. If you don't believe me, than I will gladly switch places with you because the outcome for my family has been a three-year ordeal in learning to live with a child classified as bipolar I.

Then in all fairness, you and I are making arguments on apples vs oranges.  In NYS its DV.  In CA it not, in OH, who knows.

Major Lord.

Where did you get that definition?  Ive never seen it before.  Definitely not a legal definition for CA.  Looks like something out of an article.  But not the Penal Code

[JeffDG]

Why, exactly, does it matter if it is DV or not?  Is the offense somehow magically more serious if I live with the person...is it OK for me to go punch someone in the nose off the street, but if I do that to my brother, it's the end of civilization as we know it.

Regardless of everything else, the magic word is misdemeanor.

[lordmonar]

Why, exactly, does it matter if it is DV or not?  Is the offense somehow magically more serious if I live with the person...is it OK for me to go punch someone in the nose off the street, but if I do that to my brother, it's the end of civilization as we know it.

Regardless of everything else, the magic word is misdemeanor.

Misdemeanor.....disorderly conduct.  Does not matter what the orginal charge was....nor how/why the change was changed.  He was convicted, sentanced and served his time/paid his fine for disorderly conduct.

Dispite how some muckrakers want to spin it......that is all it is.  Let's move on.

[Flying Pig]

By JeffDG
Why, exactly, does it matter if it is DV or not?  Is the offense somehow magically more serious if I live with the person...is it OK for me to go punch someone in the nose off the street, but if I do that to my brother, it's the end of civilization as we know it.

Regardless of everything else, the magic word is misdemeanor.

Because family related / in the home violence is usually far worse and doesnt end.  Or in many cases I have been to, end in one of the two killing the other.
The law has recognized that the abuse continues vs just getting in a fight on the street and gonig your separate ways.  In the home, you cant escape your attacker.
I have been to Domestics and child abuse calls that far exceed a fight on the street, and after investigating you learn that it has been going on for years.  Often times, a fight on the street is just the fight you are dealing with.  DVs and child abuse, you usually walk away with a list of charges spanning beyond just the abuse and the list usually covers multiple acts over a long period of time.

In CA, if you punch your brother in the nose, its not DV.  With hitting your bro, Its treated no different than if you were strangers.  Your relationship doesnt have any bearing on the case at all.  If you puch your girlffriend or wife, its Domestic VIolence.  It can still be a misdemeanor though based on the level of injury.  Now....if your kid is over 18 and you punch your daughter in the nose, because she is now an adult, the relationship issue is over.  Its again treated no different than a stranger on stranger fight.  Ive run into a few adult kids that dont understand that their child abuse protections end at 18.  It becomes a simple misdemeanor battery. 

I tried to address it here, because people started throwing around the term domestic violence, so I attempted to make clarification that in many states, domestic violence means your a wife/husband beater.

[FlyTiger77]

  Let's move on.

+1

[bosshawk]

+2/  Some folks will argue just because they think that it is fun.

How about a uniform argument?

[JeffDG]

+2/  Some folks will argue just because they think that it is fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y&feature=player_embedded

[DBlair]

+2/  Some folks will argue just because they think that it is fun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y&feature=player_embedded

LOL ...good call, as I was reading this, I was thinking of that exact same skit.