BG Carr's criminal record - are you satisfied with the explanation?

[flyboy53]

I would be more concerned about the agenda of the drum beater who brought the issue to light.

We are only hearing part of the issue and it would be improper to judge the General, especially when the iincident seemed to have no effect on his Security Forces career....which, by the way, would have been the harsher critic of his actions. Also, it obviously had no impact on his CPPT status.

Unless you been in those situations, as I have with a son with a difficult to manage mental illness, there is no room to find fault. Believe me when I tell you it's a long journey and participation in something like the CAP can be very theraputic.

[JeffDG]

Unless you been in those situations, as I have with a son with a difficult to manage mental illness, there is no room to find fault. Believe me when I tell you it's a long journey and participation in something like the CAP can be very theraputic.

I can imagine it can be therapeutic...my daughter's only 7, so no issues yet thank God!, but I can see that being around cadets who have voluntarily accepted a modicum of discipline into their lives could be very therapeutic after dealing with a troubled teen all the time.

[RiverAux]

We are only hearing part of the issue and it would be improper to judge the General, especially when the iincident seemed to have no effect on his Security Forces career....which, by the way, would have been the harsher critic of his actions. Also, it obviously had no impact on his CPPT status.

Although the story doesn't have his career timeline, assuming he went into the military after high school he probably would have already been retired when this incident occurred in 1995.  So, wouldn't have had any impact on his military career. 

[Flying Pig]

Ehh, the penalty is harsher for running a stop light in CA.  Family disturbance involving a wayward kid.
One day in jail means he was booked and cited from the jail.  I bet he wasnt there for more than a few hours.  Again, speculation, but I would suspect the only reason he was booked for the charge instead of being given a cite out on scene was just to separate the two for a couple hours.  Easier to book an adult than to take a juv to juvenile hall.  I would be curious to know if his juvenile  daughter was also charged with something as well. Disorderly conduct is probably the CA version of PC415 which is a verbal disturbance.

"Serving" a day in Jail is a totally different matter than being booked and held in jail pending arraignment. This ordinarily means that he was actually sentenced to jail time, and released with his time in booking counting as punitive, with the remainder of the sentence presumably waived. You don't get sentenced to jail for a meaningless verbal altercation with a teenager. ( or running a stop sign, an infraction, not a misdemeanor or felony) He was probably booked because the officers involved did not think a potential domestic violence case should cited and released (849 B'd) BS meter twitching.......I lost the initial cite, but if someone has it I could order a court runner to go pull copies of the file if its not too old.

Major Lord

Well... not really.  He could have been booked, held for several hours, plead No Contest in court and been sentenced to "Time served" which would be 1 day.

Yeah...very true

[Johnny Yuma]

Ok, color me out of the loop, but just how/why did this come to light, another Ray Hayden witch hunt?

You wouldn't believe what constitutes Domestic violence these days. In some areas a 911 call for a family fight will result in someone going to jail as a matter of policy even if no one was touched. An ex-girlfriend whom you haven't seen in 30 years can rub her arm red, call the law and tell the cops you hit her. In many/most jurisdictions because a) you dated her and b) she has a red mark you're going to jail.

The pendulum has swung waaaaay too far the other way in regard to Domestic Violence and is too easy for people to use it against others as a weapon.

Axe to grind? Yepper. Falsely accused of 2 domestic battery charges on Christmas Day 2002. It took a year to get charges dismissed (without prejudice), another 2 years for statute of limitations to run out, several thousand dollars in legal expenses, untold days off unpaid dealing with the court system and a 3 inch file folder full of police reports where my "victims" vandalized my property, threatened to kill my wife (DV applies to anyone who's ever lived with you, not just wife and kids, even if it was 70 years ago) and other unpleasantness reported to my local gendarmes.

The only thing I can fault the man for is  not fighting the charges to the end, even if it was to make everything go away. In my case, the DA offered all sorts of deals that I turned down and demanded a trial, which never happened as they dropped charges nearly a year after the incident.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Johnny is right.  DV charges are the Feminists' nuclear option.  Yes, these laws are horribly and unjustly abused.  90 percent (my estimate, based on 25 years as a street cop) of all DV cases brought to court are either false or trivial.

But, since this happened in Ohio, I hasten to point out that under Ohio law co-habitation must have been within 1 year to qualify as DV, unless the parties are related.  (Which would have been the case in this allegation).

Frankly, and (full disclosure) I know BG Carr personally, I find the explantion credible.  This is a non-starter.

[JeffDG]

Sounds like the classic no good answer question "Have you stopped beating your wife?"

To me, this all sounds like someone saying "GOTCHA!" when they're jealous of success.  Key word I saw was "misdemeanor".

Can't remember where I saw this, but with the number of laws currently on the books, the average person commits 3 felonies a day without ever being aware that they've broken the law.

[Johnny Yuma]

Johnny is right.  DV charges are the Feminists' nuclear option.  Yes, these laws are horribly and unjustly abused.  90 percent (my estimate, based on 25 years as a street cop) of all DV cases brought to court are either false or trivial.

But, since this happened in Ohio, I hasten to point out that under Ohio law co-habitation must have been within 1 year to qualify as DV, unless the parties are related.  (Which would have been the case in this allegation).

Frankly, and (full disclosure) I know BG Carr personally, I find the explantion credible.  This is a non-starter.

Thanks Kach!

Kansas law makes it a domestic charge if the victim at any point in their life was cohabitated with the accused or had a family or romantic relationship. It's an incredibly big net.

[a2capt]

I find the explantion credible.  This is a non-starter.

Yeah, it's called a distraction. Someone else threw a distraction.. probably because they wanted the spot. ;-)

[GMat]

Obviously, National Headquarters has known for quite some time about this long-past situation that involved BG Carr. 

Let's all consider the discredited, non-member source that keeps masterfully "stirring the pot" on CAP leadership.  He most certainly has an axe to grind.  And that axe is titled: Reinstatement to Active Member Status, which went out the door with BG Carr's election.

[Flying Pig]

Keep in mind, this issue we are discussing  has absolutely NOTHING to do with domestic violence.

[flyboy53]

Keep in mind, this issue we are discussing  has absolutely NOTHING to do with domestic violence.

Wrong. It is every part of domestic violence, whether it be a child or a spouse. The issue is that it was only a misdeameanor. Therefore, one can assume several things; for example the lack of severity of the incident or the fact that the other party is partially responsible for the outcome.

The further issue is that charges such as this can be waiverable because different states have different levels of charges up to a felony for what may only be a misdemeanor in one jurisdicition.

An issue such as this is brought to everyone's attention early by NHQ to end speculation. I'm satisified. I've met the man, and have a great deal of respect for him. Keep in mind that through this dialog, we're on the fringe of making it a personal attack because it involves his family.

Besides, why now? It didn't seem to have a bearing on him as a wing commander or region commander. Therefore, it's noticed and brought to light by a drum beater who has an agenda that is ultimately distructive to the organization. So, can  we just drop this stuff.

[JeffDG]

The further issue is that charges such as this can be waiverable because different states have different levels of charges up to a felony for what may only be a misdemeanor in one jurisdicition.

I too am fully satisfied...I only have a quibble with your terminology...it's not waiverable, it doesn't require a waiver, only felonies require waivers.

[MSG Mac]

Haven't we beaten this horse to death yet???

[FlyTiger77]

Haven't we beaten this horse to death yet???

No horse is too dead to beat!

[HGjunkie]

[Flying Pig]

Keep in mind, this issue we are discussing  has absolutely NOTHING to do with domestic violence.

Wrong. It is every part of domestic violence, whether it be a child or a spouse. The issue is that it was only a misdeameanor. Therefore, one can assume several things; for example the lack of severity of the incident or the fact that the other party is partially responsible for the outcome.

The further issue is that charges such as this can be waiverable because different states have different levels of charges up to a felony for what may only be a misdemeanor in one jurisdicition.

An issue such as this is brought to everyone's attention early by NHQ to end speculation. I'm satisified. I've met the man, and have a great deal of respect for him. Keep in mind that through this dialog, we're on the fringe of making it a personal attack because it involves his family.

Besides, why now? It didn't seem to have a bearing on him as a wing commander or region commander. Therefore, it's noticed and brought to light by a drum beater who has an agenda that is ultimately distructive to the organization. So, can  we just drop this stuff.

Oh, here we go again, the cop is wrong I guess. 

No, your 100% wrong.  You dont know what your talking about.  It may be your personal definition, but not a legal one.  Again, the CAP legal experts have me shaking my head.  An altercation with your daughter IS NOT domestic violence.  Domestic violence is between a spouse, fiance, domestic partner or someone you have previously been romantically involved in.  Dont put your own view on a legal term that has a specific definition. 
We probably shouldnt spread that he was arrested or involved in a DV because CAPers dont know what they are talking about.

[bosshawk]

Where is Ned in this discussion: he is both a lawyer and a judge?  He could likely put an end to this endless(?) discussion. 

Let me ask another question of you who would perpetuate this discussion: are you one who lives in a glass house and throws stones?

[jimmydeanno]

^It might not be in his best interest to comment publicly about the situation, since he is a member of the BoG.  The explanation has been made, which was probably overkill in the first place.  The man has served CAP honorably for the past many years, already served in leadership positions, successfully, and has been vetted before.

I'm just surprised that we are still giving attention to that psycho nut job conspiracy theorist. 

[cap235629]

Keep in mind, this issue we are discussing  has absolutely NOTHING to do with domestic violence.

Wrong. It is every part of domestic violence, whether it be a child or a spouse. The issue is that it was only a misdeameanor. Therefore, one can assume several things; for example the lack of severity of the incident or the fact that the other party is partially responsible for the outcome.

The further issue is that charges such as this can be waiverable because different states have different levels of charges up to a felony for what may only be a misdemeanor in one jurisdicition.

An issue such as this is brought to everyone's attention early by NHQ to end speculation. I'm satisified. I've met the man, and have a great deal of respect for him. Keep in mind that through this dialog, we're on the fringe of making it a personal attack because it involves his family.

Besides, why now? It didn't seem to have a bearing on him as a wing commander or region commander. Therefore, it's noticed and brought to light by a drum beater who has an agenda that is ultimately distructive to the organization. So, can  we just drop this stuff.

Oh, here we go again, the cop is wrong I guess. 

No, your 100% wrong.  You dont know what your talking about.  It may be your personal definition, but not a legal one.  Again, the CAP legal experts have me shaking my head.  An altercation with your daughter IS NOT domestic violence.  Domestic violence is between a spouse, fiance, domestic partner or someone you have previously been romantically involved in.  Dont put your own view on a legal term that has a specific definition. 
We probably shouldnt spread that he was arrested or involved in a DV because CAPers dont know what they are talking about.

Well here it is considered Domestic Violence if the officer has probable cause to believe violence or threat of violence was used and:

You are now or once were married
You are now or once were related by blood OR Marriage.
You are now or once were cohabitating
You are now or once were in a substantial dating relationship

Though the interpretation can be vaguely applied, here in Arkansas most cops will pin a medal on you if you have to "exert control" on your child.  If a school principal can beat a child on the buttocks with a paddle (as they can in Arkansas) it seems rather silly for you to get arrested for smacking the wise@ss out of your own child.

YMMV