Put the old pilots out on the ice floe

[bosshawk]

Does anyone know what the National Board, in their corporate wisdom, decided on this issue?  Perhaps they referred it to a committee, like they seem to do on any important subject.

[tsrup]

Does anyone know what the National Board, in their corporate wisdom, decided on this issue?  Perhaps they referred it to a committee, like they seem to do on any important subject.

The decided to make a poll on CAP talk.   

[RADIOMAN015]

Frankly I wouldn't even let an 80 year old drive me in a car, and to have them still flying especially cadets is asking for a problem.

Actually at our recent wing conference I talked with our Chief Standardization guy about this and his opinion is if the individual could pass the annual check ride and 2 year physical he would still let him/her fly cadets.   He emphasized to me that age wasn't the factor but the individual's actual capabilities.  So that even a 50 year old could be taken off flying status if he/she couldn't pass the evaluation.   He also mentioned that any age restriction (which I would assume is at 65 years old on) would greatly impact the flying program (which I would assume) in our wing.

I might add also in our wing, that generally during missions the entire flight crew our all pilots in the first place, so there probably isn't much risk in the mission side.

Again though, as a non pilot I don't see myself flying with an 80 year old, and even at 70 years old, it would be someone I knew and interacted with prior to getting into the plane.   We do need to recruit more younger pilots for the program overall.
RM   

[WT]

They didn't refer it anywhere.  Someone realized this is AGE DISCRIMINATION!

[heliodoc]

I STILL fly with 70 and 80 year pilots in CAP

So what?

CAP gotta a corner on the aging pilot issue?  OH wait a minute, it does ,it does!  the Silver Hair Patrol

Some of those old folks were flying C123's, O1's, O2's, F102's and F106 BITD

Current CAP types who think flyin with 30-50 yr old pilots thinkin is the cat's meeeeeeooow are missin out.

Why does one in CAP wonder why its called the Silver Hair Patrol?  Experience CAPTalkers...not matter how anyone wants to argue "AGE."

ALL this CAP bunk about risk and old age....loookeee at some of those aircraft incidents and accidents ages 18-59 and later even

Unless CAP has some CLEAR statistics on how "unsafe" the AARP  ( 50 and above) crowd is............then CAP ought just leave the whole issue alone until it affects them on a daily basis.  CAP and age.......whatever.....   if CAP did not have age....well ....    it wouldn't be CAP

[tsrup]

They didn't refer it anywhere.  Someone realized this is AGE DISCRIMINATION!

Someone should have told the airline industry then..
Hell while we're doing that maybe we should abolish the minimum age for a pilots license, or maybe even driver's licenses as well...

I am opposed to the idea of having an age cap, however, throwing around words like "discrimination" is like grabbing the pitchforks and rounding up the posse.

The fact of the matter is that old people get, well, old.  They lose a little bit of themselves along the way, and that's why they make Depends. 
I am in favor or more frequent flight physical exams, and when the day comes that my Flight Surgeon (whether it be when I'm 55 or 105) says that I am no longer fit to fly, then hell, I'll go home and sit in my diaper with a beer and watch tv.  But if I'm 70 and fit to fly and someone says because and arbitrary rule I cannot fly, then that dog isn't gonna hunt. 

So maybe I kind of argued against myself, but this isn't baseless discrimination, there is some logic behind it(the regulation).  It's just being executed poorly.

[heliodoc]

^^^^^
Like many of the other "current regs" in CAP

Executed poorly and sometimes without much thought

But some CAPtalkers will disagree

How many of those 1941 subchasing CApers were of the ages of 40 through 70 during that heyday?

Maybe if CAP found the ages BITD....it would not be much different than today...

Proving this "current" CAP "poll" is full of hot air...

[Mustang]

The fact of the matter is that old people get, well, old.  They lose a little bit of themselves along the way, and that's why they make Depends. 
I am in favor or more frequent flight physical exams, and when the day comes that my Flight Surgeon (whether it be when I'm 55 or 105) says that I am no longer fit to fly, then hell, I'll go home and sit in my diaper with a beer and watch tv.  But if I'm 70 and fit to fly and someone says because and arbitrary rule I cannot fly, then that dog isn't gonna hunt. 

In 2006, the late Col Ed Lewis, then Pacific Region Director of Operations, told my Region Staff College class that when he hit 70 the following year, he was going to hang it up. He recognized that his reaction times and reflexes were not what they used to--or should--be, and that he would soon be a risk to himself and his crews.

Fast forward to Autumn 2007, after the colonel had turned 70, I witnessed him fly sorties as a mission pilot during the search for Steve Fossett.  A few months later, he and NVWG/CC Col Dion DeCamp (also over age 70) were dead, killed in a CAP plane crash southwest of Las Vegas, NV.

With no disrespect meant, these gentlemen--both highly experienced aviators with decades of military and airline experience--both knew their age was becoming a risk factor, they chose to ignore their consciences, and they (and their families, and CAP) are now paying the price.   

If it can happen to those two, it can happen to anyone.

Of course, the real answer is a Stan/Eval program with a real backbone, but I doubt we'll see that anytime soon.

[heliodoc]

^^^^^

Then ya better call the USAF to run the CAP Stan / Eval program

Until then, ya's gets whay ya's gets!!

Cuz for CAP, it gets no better than this!!

[cachambliss]

Jumping on in as a grey haired Instructor Pilot:  Some years back late 80's and since I started noticing a trend in younger pilots (Young as in experience not age) that I have found disturbing.  There are a awful lot of folks flying around that are fantastic systems managers but mediocre airmen.  Oh these guys can make a GPS (and up until recently a LORAN) sit up and sing, and dance, and beg for dinner but -  when I would turn off all the electronics and say where are we?  let the dumb looks reign.

That "Old Pilot" who doesn't even know how to turn on the GPS and navigates by moving his/her finger along the chart as the airplane moves over the ground has their brain, their eyes, their soul wired and in tune with their task. 

If anything, the old farts are going to be better VFR pilots because they have already used up most of their nine lives being young pilots.

[SunDog]

My two cents - only in my 50's but gave up doing O rides this year- the paper chase and release process got to be too big a hassle, and I have dark suspicions about CAP National throwing a pilot under the bus if a Cadet gets nicked.

Sort of transitioned my flying from 70/30, CAP VS flying club, to 30/70, CAP VS flying club, over the last year.
Fly CAP if they're paying for it, otherwise I fly with a club.

[RVT]

Item 7c on the Winter NB agenda would limit CAP pilots to a max of 79 years old.  O-ride pilots would max out at 69 years old.  This would be a pretty big change for CAP and would have the potential to reduce o-ride pilot availability somewhat. Good idea?  Bad idea?

Go by the results of the flight physical, not some arbitrary number.  Thats what the flight physical is FOR, isn't it?

That being said, I do understand the concern on O-rides, but not regular missions.  The person sitting in the right seat can probably bring the plane in pilot or not.

[FlyTiger77]

[The person sitting in the right seat can probably bring the plane in pilot or not.

Emphasis mine, and I assume there is an understood "safely," between "in" and "pilot."

If I am sitting in the back seat, I am not sure I would want to hang my hat on "probably," even if I were to agree with your assumption.

YMMV

v/r