New 60-1

[NIN]

Did anybody notice that cadets have to have the ground handling video complete before doing an o-flight?

My CO mentioned that tonight.

[Eclipse]

Probably not a bad idea, though you'll have a bunch scrambling to do it in the hanger.

Maybe the GHV should just be another part of Curry.

[PHall]

Why do passengers need to know how to park the airplane?

[EMT-83]

Not a big deal at all, we've been doing this since just after the GHV came out.

Around here, the passengers push just as hard as the pilots.

[NIN]

I guess my point was that I have a hard enough time getting cadets through the required online training like OPSEC, and one of the complaints in exit surveys of cadets is that they don't get to fly as much is they thought, and now we've just thrown another hoop in front of them.

Are we going to require the customers we bring along for CD missions to take the ground handling video before they can fly with us?

[Cliff_Chambliss]

just another mindless minion at NHQ doing something-anything so he/she can point and say "see what I did"  Whether it makes sense or not is totally immaterial.

I don't care how many videos a person has watched (or not) if I am using their help in moving an aircraft the responsibility is mine and mine alone and I will tell them exactly what to do, how to do it and when to do it.  Watching a video will get no points from me on aircraft handling.

[lordmonar]

just another mindless minion at NHQ doing something-anything so he/she can point and say "see what I did"  Whether it makes sense or not is totally immaterial.

I don't care how many videos a person has watched (or not) if I am using their help in moving an aircraft the responsibility is mine and mine alone and I will tell them exactly what to do, how to do it and when to do it.  Watching a video will get no points from me on aircraft handling.

You would figure that by the time an CAP member was cleared to fly a CAP aircraft he would know how to push it back into a hanger.

Is there a way of gang loading a unit for doing ACH?   Just show the the video in place of the monthly safety brief (every month) and then you are good!

[JeffDG]

just another mindless minion at NHQ doing something-anything so he/she can point and say "see what I did"  Whether it makes sense or not is totally immaterial.

I don't care how many videos a person has watched (or not) if I am using their help in moving an aircraft the responsibility is mine and mine alone and I will tell them exactly what to do, how to do it and when to do it.  Watching a video will get no points from me on aircraft handling.

Well, there's also the fact that the AGH video shows someone doing the absurdly unsafe thing of sticking their head through the prop arc to hook up a towbar, and not as a negative example.

[SunDog]

Some cadets may become senior members eventually - I think it's important to start wasting their time right away, get them indoctrinated early.  Else they may recoil when tasked with "Microwave Oven Safety" or "Hazards of Spork Use".

[Luis R. Ramos]

Cliff, Phall, EMT-

Having cadets watch that video does not relieve you of the responsibility requiring supervision and instruction doing it properly.

But in education, the more times a topic is covered the better it sticks.

If it does not break anything, why complain whether those taking the O Flight are required to take that video? Or do you have plenty on your hands for complaining about something minor like that?



Flyer

[lordmonar]

The point is ....useless, pointless box checking is one of the reasons why people don't like CAP.

The problem is HANGAR RASH.

That is responsible officers are not paying attention to what they are doing.

It is not like they did not know "Pushing the plane into a wall is bad".....they knew that already!

Making cadet passengers or anyone besides mission candidates (MS trainees and above) take the training is just pointless.

Sure the cadets will help push the aircraft.....UNDER THE SUPERVISION of some qualified person.

AGH training has always been usless.

[Eclipse]

You would figure that by the time an CAP member was cleared to fly a CAP aircraft he would know how to push it back into a hanger.

Yes, you would...

...and yet...

the instances of hangar rash, not to mention more serious avoidable mishaps continues to, if not rise, remain constant.

[NIN]

If it does not break anything, why complain whether those taking the O Flight are required to take that video? Or do you have plenty on your hands for complaining about something minor like that?

the larger problem is the myriad of signoffs and requirements for people to do ANYTHING.

Do you think a 12-13 year old cadet knows what he or she is "signing" when they do the NDA? Doubtful.  OPSEC?  Ditto.  Yet I have to get new cadets thru these two hoops (along with, what, the other 18 steps required to get signed in and setup in E-Services) before they can do things in eServices.  And that is pre-supposing that these cadets are technically savvy enough to do so on their own, which assumes "facts not in evidence" sometimes.

Now, before Cadet Timmy can sit with his hands folded in his lap in the airplane, he has to accomplish *yet*another* online "training".  Getting cadets scheduled in and flown is enough of a pain. "Sorry you showed up to fly today, Timmy, but it says here you haven't watched the Aircraft Ground Handling Video and taken the test. So yeah, never mind that we're at a fly day where the plane taxis up and you hardly get an opportunity to even touch it, let alone 'ground handle' it..."

I don't want to be a Negative Nin, but jeez. We keep trying to put butts in seats, and every time we find a good way to do that, a way is found to make it more difficult.  Why?

[vento]

Did anybody notice that cadets have to have the ground handling video complete before doing an o-flight?

My CO mentioned that tonight.

Cite please? I mean where in CAPR 60-1 (9 APR 2014) is the requirement for cadet to comply with the Ground Handling instructions?

Without the cite, I'd say that your CO is very wrong! 

[FlyTiger77]

Did anybody notice that cadets have to have the ground handling video complete before doing an o-flight?

My CO mentioned that tonight.

Cite please? I mean where in CAPR 60-1 (9 APR 2014) is the requirement for cadet to comply with the Ground Handling instructions?

Without the cite, I'd say that your CO is very wrong! 

CAPR 60-1, para 2-1(r) states, in pertinent part: "...[T]he Aircraft Ground Handling Video will be reviewed and its associated test will be accomplished by...cadets participating in cadet orientation flight activities."

I would invite your attention to the bottom third of page 7 of CAPR 60-1 dated 9 April 2014 if you are interested in reading the entire requirement.

[vento]

Did anybody notice that cadets have to have the ground handling video complete before doing an o-flight?

My CO mentioned that tonight.

Cite please? I mean where in CAPR 60-1 (9 APR 2014) is the requirement for cadet to comply with the Ground Handling instructions?

Without the cite, I'd say that your CO is very wrong! 

CAPR 60-1, para 2-1(r) states, in pertinent part: "...[T]he Aircraft Ground Handling Video will be reviewed and its associated test will be accomplished by...cadets participating in cadet orientation flight activities."

I would invite your attention to the bottom third of page 7 of CAPR 60-1 dated 9 April 2014 if you are interested in reading the entire requirement.

Thanks and I stand corrected. 

[FlyTiger77]

Did anybody notice that cadets have to have the ground handling video complete before doing an o-flight?

My CO mentioned that tonight.

Cite please? I mean where in CAPR 60-1 (9 APR 2014) is the requirement for cadet to comply with the Ground Handling instructions?

Without the cite, I'd say that your CO is very wrong! 

CAPR 60-1, para 2-1(r) states, in pertinent part: "...[T]he Aircraft Ground Handling Video will be reviewed and its associated test will be accomplished by...cadets participating in cadet orientation flight activities."

I would invite your attention to the bottom third of page 7 of CAPR 60-1 dated 9 April 2014 if you are interested in reading the entire requirement.

Thanks and I stand corrected. 

It's worth re-reading the entire regulation. There are a lot of changes.

I am glad that I have NEVER overlooked a regulatory change!!!!!!

[EMT-83]

I've asked the question before, but I wonder if there is any evidence that GHV has reduced the frequency of hangar rash?

[lordmonar]

I've asked the question before, but I wonder if there is any evidence that GHV has reduced the frequency of hangar rash?

Not that has been report AFAIK.

[NIN]

I've asked the question before, but I wonder if there is any evidence that GHV has reduced the frequency of hangar rash?

Are you suggesting an evidence-based approach to our training programs?