CAPP 50-10 NEW HORIZONS GUIDE FOR CADET TO SENIOR MEMBER TRANSITION

[exFlight Officer]

Fresh from eServices.

http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/P050_010_14736E2A099A7.pdf

[DakRadz]

 

Did you look at the uniforms they're wearing on the front cover???

[vento]

Did you look at the uniforms they're wearing on the front cover???

Did you have to turn this into an uniform thread so early in the game? 

[DakRadz]

I had to get this out of the way:

THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THEM!!!! GO NHQ!!! GO CAP!!! GO JOEYBAGODONUTS MEMBER WHO PROBABLY HELPED EDIT THIS!!

[FARRIER]

They forgot to add in there that Senior Members will consume black coffee with a plate of fries.

[Paul Creed III]

Uniform infractions on the front cover. (sigh)

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

Uniform infractions on the front cover. (sigh)

Maybe I've not finished my morning coffee (with cream, thank you) but I can't spot an infraction.

[Paul Creed III]

The position of the 2nd Lt's flight cap: it goes on the left-side of the person and the top of the cap is even with the belt, not above it.

[ßτε]

The position of the 2nd Lt's flight cap: it goes on the left-side of the person and the top of the cap is even with the belt, not above it.

CAPM 39-1 states that the flight cap may be tucked on either side and it does not specify that it will be even with the belt, just that it will not fold over the belt.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

This pulls a lot of material together from a good number of regulations. (It did miss one of my favorite multi-reg facts. How is it I wear a silver star on my Earhart ribbon?)

A lot of cadets leave and never return with a lot of skill sets we could use.  Just putting a transition plan on paper is a giant step forward.

[Hawk200]

The position of the 2nd Lt's flight cap: it goes on the left-side of the person...

This a myth that I keep seeing. Publications exist for a reason. People need to read them and quit trying to run CAP through a "somebody told me" method of operation.

...and the top of the cap is even with the belt, not above it.

I think that is what is implied by the manual. In the Air Force, I was always taught that it does not go above the top of the belt. It may be legal to wear it the way shown, but it looks sloppy.

Overall, they should delete the picture. I can appreciate "real world" setting photos, but not when the people in them look like this.

The pamphlet seems to have some pretty good info. However, I thought National was going to do updating on the oldest pubs first, then start worrying about making new ones. This doesn't seem in line with that idea.

[Bobble]

Personally, I think they did a great job in putting this document out, it brings together a lot of information.  I only have two items for discussion:

1) I think they should have included Training Leaders of Cadets (TLC) in the "Definitions and Resources" section.  Or did I miss it somewhere?

2) The "Advanced Promotion" section referencing CAPR 50-17 with the passage stating "..., the graph below shows what you might qualify for:".  It probably would be better to state those qualifications clearly -

CAPR 35-05
SECTION G - FLIGHT OFFICER GRADES
7-4. Promotion Eligibility Requirements.
a. General.
(3) Leadership qualities. Individuals recommended for promotion to flight officer grade must be occupying positions of supervision or leadership within the unit.

Personally, I have seen instances where cadets believed that it was an automatic changeover to FO grade after their 18th birthday if they so requested, even though they had spent a significant amount of time (6 months or more) prior to their request with no progression in the program and no contributions to the squadron.  It led to some hard feelings after the above passage was discussed.

[Paul Creed III]

Yes, my bad. My home unit standardizes on the wear of the flight cap on the left and even with the belt so all of the unit members are... uniform. Then again, I have never seen any USAF wear the cap on the right or sloppily (in my opinion) above the belt. Makes for a much better appearance to have it neatly line up with the belt.

Since this is my first venture into a uniform thread, I will return to my cave now.

[JC004]

What the heck happened to cause this to be added?

NOTE: No version of this publication may be used by outside organizations or entities without the express written consent of NHQ CAP/PD.

[Eclipse]

What the heck happened to cause this to be added?

NOTE: No version of this publication may be used by outside organizations or entities without the express written consent of NHQ CAP/PD.

Probably just boilerplate, I can't imagine too much in this is applicable outside CAP.

As to the photo, nothing makes a document's cover pop! like stacked banquets chairs as the focal point, but I don't see anything wrong with the uniforms.

[Bluelakes 13]

Since this is my first venture into a uniform thread, I will return to my cave now.

Paul, if you are going to make uniform corrections here, make sure you check, double check, and triple check your regs.  They are merciless here.  And have the reg cite in the clipboard to paste at a second's notice.

You've been warned!   

[Bluelakes 13]

I had to get this out of the way:

THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THEM!!!! GO NHQ!!! GO CAP!!! GO JOEYBAGODONUTS MEMBER WHO PROBABLY HELPED EDIT THIS!!

Cadet,

Lighten up.  And may I suggest a brief refresher of CAPP 50-2.

[coudano]

That's such a good intro to senior membership i'm going to show it to all of my new senior members and be like "ignore the former cadet specific stuff"

[DakRadz]

I had to get this out of the way:

THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THEM!!!! GO NHQ!!! GO CAP!!! GO JOEYBAGODONUTS MEMBER WHO PROBABLY HELPED EDIT THIS!!

Cadet,

Lighten up.  And may I suggest a brief refresher of CAPP 50-2.

Lighten up? Heh?

I was being thankful and appreciative that NHQ got a picture in which the members looked pretty dang good.

Regardless of the little nitpicks, this is far better a picture than what I've seen in our Manual on actually wearing the uniforms. I think this is a great effort by our National level folks- I also think that the average member was involved, and Joeybagodonuts is a name that my JROTC instructors use (Everyman, Anyman type deal) to generalize about something, not an insult.

Core Values? I congratulate our leadership on a job well done and I'm not following our Core Values?

I also wanted to get the uniform part out of the way so that this evolves back to the original content, as opposed to devolving to a uniform debate.

I think we may have just got our wires crossed the wrong way, but regardless these were my intentions. Hopefully this clears things up?

[EMT-83]

After all, the photo could have been senior members wearing polo shirts, with coffee and donuts.

[Eclipse]

After all, the photo could have been senior members wearing polo shirts, with coffee and donuts.

What kind of coffee?

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

After all, the photo could have been senior members wearing polo shirts, with coffee and donuts.

Come to the Dark Side™, we have donuts, coffee and polo shirts.

[Hawk200]

After all, the photo could have been senior members wearing polo shirts, with coffee and donuts.

What kind of coffee?

From Dunkin Donuts. Nothing like one stop shopping.

[jeders]

I had to get this out of the way:

THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THEM!!!! GO NHQ!!! GO CAP!!! GO JOEYBAGODONUTS MEMBER WHO PROBABLY HELPED EDIT THIS!!

Cadet,

Lighten up.  And may I suggest a brief refresher of CAPP 50-2.

So praising higher headquarters is a violation of the core values, that's a new one.

[Slim]

I had to get this out of the way:

THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THEM!!!! GO NHQ!!! GO CAP!!! GO JOEYBAGODONUTS MEMBER WHO PROBABLY HELPED EDIT THIS!!

Cadet,

Lighten up.  And may I suggest a brief refresher of CAPP 50-2.

So praising higher headquarters is a violation of the core values, that's a new one.

To be fair, the way the poster chose to enlarge, recolor, and bold the font seemed a bit snarky to me.  With the benefit of context, tone of voice, and facial expressions, the take-away might have been a little different.

[spacecommand]

No triangle thingy spotted. 

[JC004]

No triangle thingy spotted. 

w00t!

[a2capt]

To be fair, the way the poster chose to enlarge, recolor, and bold the font seemed a bit snarky to me.  With the benefit of context, tone of voice, and facial expressions, the take-away might have been a little different.

Bingo. I suspected otherwise, myself. Like sarcastic 'excitement',  but .. I can see where that would come off.

[DakRadz]

To be fair, the way the poster chose to enlarge, recolor, and bold the font seemed a bit snarky to me.  With the benefit of context, tone of voice, and facial expressions, the take-away might have been a little different.

Bingo. I suspected otherwise, myself. Like sarcastic 'excitement',  but .. I can see where that would come off.

I wanted it to be noticeable that NHQ had done it right. No snarkiness intended. Honest to goodness excitement/appreciation.

Not to mention the publication itself isn't bad and will be of use to me in a few months.

[RADIOMAN015]

After all, the photo could have been senior members wearing polo shirts, with coffee and donuts.

Look, I've actually observed my counterparts eating "healthy" food and not drinking coffee.    However, we really do like our polo shirts, except for the guys in cadet programs, that look too AF to me :angel:
RM

[AlphaSigOU]

After all, the photo could have been senior members wearing polo shirts, with coffee and donuts.

What kind of coffee?

From Dunkin Donuts. Nothing like one stop shopping.

No "Drunken Blownuts" - ahem, Dunkin' Donuts - here in Kwajalein. We do have a local bakery at least, though right now they're occupying a trailer while their facility is being renovated. Coffee? If ya don't make it yerself, it's mostly dirty dishwater! 

[RADIOMAN015]

It's interesting in that we had a few cadets quit as cadets (with very little cadet achievements) and either came back as a senior member OR state when they quit they would be back to participate in a specific aspect of the program (e.g. Emergency Services).  Personally, I'm not sure what we gain by having an 18 year old "drop out" from the cadet program coming back as a senior member (at the very least the commander, deputy commander for seniors needs to sit down and talk with them & draw up, perhaps a written understanding of "guidelines").  It's probably not a good idea to put them in cadet programs, and I'm not even sure they should be dealing with cadets at all for a few years.

Even the 21 year old that has been a "senior cadet" may have issues with transition.  I'm not sure it's in their best interest to place them into cadet programs immediately; however, units may face the challenges of getting senior member interest in managing the cadet program, so the new young senior member may be the best option available to the unit commander.
RM

[Eclipse]

After all, the photo could have been senior members wearing polo shirts, with coffee and donuts.

Look, I've actually observed my counterparts eating "healthy" food and not drinking coffee.    However, we really do like our polo shirts, except for the guys in cadet programs, that look too AF to me

By counterparts do you mean other CAP members or other radio guys?

There's a reason most modern HAM equipment comes with an integrated AED.

[Eclipse]

Even the 21 year old that has been a "senior cadet" may have issues with transition.  I'm not sure it's in their best interest to place them into cadet programs immediately; however, units may face the challenges of getting senior member interest in managing the cadet program, so the new young senior member may be the best option available to the unit commander.

There needs to be a mandatory year between cadet and senior status in which the new senior, regardless of grade is not allowed to have any position of authority or staff responsibility over other cadets, at units or other other activities.

Most of the transition issues we have, including the times when we "break" recent former cadets who then quit altogether would be eliminated if we did this.

[Major Carrales]

I don't know why it was so that this thread became "bunk" with uniform talk and nonsense about doughnuts and coffee.  Let's just call it immaturity and move on. (shame on you if this is the part of my post you choose to comment on or get offended by)

Back to matters at hand.

I think the transition of CADET to SENIOR has been an over looked, albeit potentially important, phenomenon in the Civil Air Patrol.

In all regards, the CADET PROGRAM should very well serve, in some cases, as a "CAPROTC."  Potentially, a cadet that becomes a cadet officer should have training and leadership experience, knowledge and skills to function as a Staff Officer in a Squadron.  Sure, they lack adult experiences in the program but I will say that a CADET OFFICER, with years of experience already in CAP, encampment, immersion in CAP culture and familiarity with procedures,  has more than a "leg up" on a person that joins off the street to become a CAP 2d Lt.

What I see is that many "retired" cadets go on to college and, even when there is a desire to continue as a Senior member, they phase out...only to return some 10 years later completely out of touch with how the contemporary CAP works.

Maybe if there was some membership category these could go into where they could participate almost as a "Reservist."  If there are times from wild parties and the like in college, there is time to maintain CAP membership.

If that seems too radical...then maybe we need to outreach to college campuses.  Many have ROTC units with a wealth of experienced cadets.  In our town there is a University right down the road from the middle school.  Having some ROTC cadets as members imparting their skills would help greatly.

I know of a great many of us here that were cadets and made the change over to become some of our greatest leaders.  I think there is a gem in such persons that we could be mining more of. 

[RADIOMAN015]

What I see is that many "retired" cadets go on to college and, even when there is a desire to continue as a Senior member, they phase out...only to return some 10 years later completely out of touch with how the contemporary CAP works.

I think it is much more important for a cadet to look at his/her future and place the priority on schooling, training, active military service, or their civilian job, rather than worrying about transitioning to become a senior member in Civil Air Patrol.  That's my advice to any cadet thinking about becoming a senior member, get your priorities straight -- CAP will always be around years later.

Unfortunately, I've seen this in CAP, in a cadet to senior (transition) launches a "fantasy land" career in CAP, rather than launching a true career plan in the adult working world.  When cadets that have transitioned to senior members that are still living at home with mom & dad in their mid 20's and working basically "dead end" jobs, that is a problem in my opinion
RM 

[Major Carrales]

I think it is much more important for a cadet to look at his/her future and place the priority on schooling, training, active military service, or their civilian job, rather than worrying about transitioning to become a senior member in Civil Air Patrol.  That's my advice to any cadet thinking about becoming a senior member, get your priorities straight -- CAP will always be around years later.

Unfortunately, I've seen this in CAP, in a cadet to senior (transition) launches a "fantasy land" career in CAP, rather than launching a true career plan in the adult working world.  When cadets that have transitioned to senior members that are still living at home with mom & dad in their mid 20's and working basically "dead end" jobs, that is a problem in my opinion
RM

For real?  You are actually making the ridiculous post that CAP prevents people from finishing college?  Balderdash...if your gonna be the contrarian at least try to make sense.

My point is that if college age students are gonna join fraternities and other diversions, they might was well be active in CAP.  I find it odd that we would drill into a cadet's head at the start of every meeting that they are too "advance their education and training rapidly to prepare themselves to be of service to their community, state and nation" and instill Integrity, Volunteer Service, Excellence and Respect then abandon this idea just because they go to college.

I attended a University, you know, and there was time to be active in CAP.  I still graduated, became a teacher and maintain my own home.

[a2capt]

Heh, wow. More spectacularly crappy advice. CAP makes an excellent extracurricular activity. Time a lot better spent than a beer and booze frat house. Come on.