Put the old pilots out on the ice floe

[RiverAux]

Item 7c on the Winter NB agenda would limit CAP pilots to a max of 79 years old.  O-ride pilots would max out at 69 years old.  This would be a pretty big change for CAP and would have the potential to reduce o-ride pilot availability somewhat. 

According to the NB draft agenda there are 270 cadet orientation pilots age 70+ (of 2,240 total nationwide – 12%) that would be affected by this policy.  There are 34 CAPF 5 pilots age 80+ (of 3,270 total nationwide – 1%) that would be affected by this policy.

Good idea?  Bad idea?

[N Harmon]

Not enough information to form an opinion. Are older pilots statistically more likely to be involved in flying accidents?

What is the problem that this proposal seeks to fix?

[Spike]

^ The Air Force seems to agree.  In fact the CAP-USAF side seems to be making some very interesting comments on this and many other subjects. 

[flyguy06]

Looks like the USAF agrees with it and the CAP Senior Advisors (who it probably affects) do not.

Ireally dont have an opinion. I see the USAF's point of view but then I see Youg eagle pilots flying kids well past 70 years old. So I just dont know. But if it passes, I only 30 years left to be an O ride pilot.

[Spike]

^ As a cadet the thrill of wondering if your O-Ride Pilot was going to have a heart attack and you having to take over the controlls was exhilirating. 

[lordmonar]

I got to say....that for the most part when you turn 80...it may be time to stop flying.

Yes....there are many pilots able to fly beyond 80.....but there are many more who are not....and CAP leaders often are not agressive enough to say "hey....you just can't do it anymore" when they need to.

[Short Field]

It comes down to the check pilots and if they are doing their job.  It also comes down to commanders, ops officers, ICs, and other crewmembers.  We had several senior (and not so senior) pilots that were so unsafe people were avoiding flying with them but they kept getting passed.  Thankfully some of the worse finally decided to give it up on their own - because the leadership was not going to force them to stop flying.

[High Speed Low Drag]

^ As a cadet the thrill of wondering if your O-Ride Pilot was going to have a heart attack and you having to take over the controlls was exhilirating.

LOL  LOL  LOL    So true, so true.  I think on of Moses' brothers flew one of my O-flights.

[cap235629]

^ As a cadet the thrill of wondering if your O-Ride Pilot was going to have a heart attack and you having to take over the controlls was exhilirating.

LOL  LOL  LOL    So true, so true.  I think on of Moses' brothers flew one of my O-flights.

Are his initials RP?? Still kicking!!!

[DG]

I got to say....that for the most part when you turn 80...it may be time to stop flying.

Yes....there are many pilots able to fly beyond 80.....but there are many more who are not....and CAP leaders often are not agressive enough to say "hey....you just can't do it anymore" when they need to.

The FAA does not see this as a need to be regulated.

[Eclipse]

I got to say....that for the most part when you turn 80...it may be time to stop flying.

Yes....there are many pilots able to fly beyond 80.....but there are many more who are not....and CAP leaders often are not agressive enough to say "hey....you just can't do it anymore" when they need to.

The FAA does not see this as a need to be regulated.

I'm not sure how that's relevant.  Most states allow people to drive until they die at the wheel as well, but that doesn't mean
I want to have 80 year old bus or taxi drivers.

Just because the FAA, which would be bombarded by AOPA and the AARP if they capped pilot age, isn't concerned doesn't mean we shouldn't be.

[bosshawk]

As one of those closest to being affected by any such rule, let me make a few comments. 

I have no idea of flying past 80.  In fact, I will almost certainly not even be a CAP member by that age(I am currently 73).  Each year, I debate long and loud as to whether or not I will renew my membership and I come closer to letting it drop each year.  As two of my buddies have said, "lets sit in the bleachers with our bags of popcorn and cokes and watch the ship sink", at least for the next year.

While I am a certified O Ride pilot, I haven't done one in years.  I got stood up by so many cadets that I simply am not available.  Now, let the flaming begin from all of the Cadet Program folks.

BTW: I passed my Class 2 medical today.

[Thrashed]

Shouldn't the check pilot decide if the older guys should fly?  If they pass the same Form 5 and medical exam everyone else does, then let them fly cadets.  If they can't, they don't fly cadets. 

[WT]

Let the Check Pilots do their job.  If someone over 80 can pass a CAPF 5 checkride, let them fly!  Why should we discriminate based upon someone's age??  If you don't trust the Checkpilots, that should be handled as a DOV issue, not by disciminating pilots.  CAP Pilots have ENOUGH hoops to jump through already!

[flyguy06]

I got to say....that for the most part when you turn 80...it may be time to stop flying.

Yes....there are many pilots able to fly beyond 80.....but there are many more who are not....and CAP leaders often are not agressive enough to say "hey....you just can't do it anymore" when they need to.

The FAA does not see this as a need to be regulated.

I'm not sure how that's relevant.  Most states allow people to drive until they die at the wheel as well, but that doesn't mean
I want to have 80 year old bus or taxi drivers.

Just because the FAA, which would be bombarded by AOPA and the AARP if they capped pilot age, isn't concerned doesn't mean we shouldn't be.

Are you a pilot Eclipse? I am not trying to sound arrogant or anything, but I wonder how many pilots are actually on CAPTalk. Its interesting all these non pilots have a lot to say about pilot qualifications and what age a pilot should stop flying. 

[FW]

I plan on flying grids till I'm 90.....    By then I'll probably have gotten it down.

[Climbnsink]

Sounds like a tacit admission that check rides don't work.  Or just more CAP rulemaking fun.   

[N Harmon]

The Air Force seems to agree.  In fact the CAP-USAF side seems to be making some very interesting comments on this and many other subjects.

Well, what is the basis for their comments? No offense to you or the Air Force, but to say it's a good idea because the Air Force agrees with it is irrational as an argument from authority. However if the Air Force is aware of some data that can put this issue in perspective, then the appropriate thing is to bare that out before rendering an opinion.

Let's be clear here. We're talking about pilots who, despite their old age, still meet FAA medical and competency requirements for pilot in command. The assumption therefore is that they are just as capable of safely piloting CAP aircraft as well as a younger pilot. We're not talking about drivers licenses where there are no medical or continued competency requirements.

If the problem truly is with our check ride process, then this doesn't solve the problem. If unsafe pilots are being passed, then that is where the attention should be focused.

[JoeTomasone]

^ As a cadet the thrill of wondering if your O-Ride Pilot was going to have a heart attack and you having to take over the controlls was exhilirating.

LOL  LOL  LOL    So true, so true.  I think on of Moses' brothers flew one of my O-flights.

Mine was in his 50's IIRC - it was his opening line that set the tone:

"Cadet, have you ever flown in a plane like this before?"

"No, sir."

"Me either!  This should be fun!"

[DG]

Let the Check Pilots do their job.  If someone over 80 can pass a CAPF 5 checkride, let them fly!  Why should we discriminate based upon someone's age??  If you don't trust the Checkpilots, that should be handled as a DOV issue, not by disciminating pilots.  CAP Pilots have ENOUGH hoops to jump through already!

As a check pilot and a good one at that, and one who pays attention, I can tell you that...

More often than not the 70+ and 80+ year old pilot (who has been flying all his life, not newly minted) is unquestionably a better VFR pilot and safer.

Than a new pilot (<500 hours).

Particularly a new pilot who thinks he is hot stuff.  But also the new pilot who is timid and unsure of herself.

It is a matter of experience.

And in the case of the older pilot,

It comes to the place where his ability is so established that...

It is in the spinal column.

If you fly with these senior pilots, you get to see that.

If you don't fly with them, then you sit around with not enough to do, and make regulations discriminating against some of our best pilots.

Yes, there may be a few who "lose it."  But that is what our annual check process is for.

I promise you, those older pilots who "lose it" get downed in the check process when their time comes.  In fact, older pilots are watched more closely, more so than younger pilots. 

And the percentage of those older pilots who "lose it" and should be downed each year is LESS THAN the younger pilots flying in CAP without the proper training and experience and who should be downed each year, who are flying with CAP because they are not paying for it, and they are too cheap to go out and get good instruction and frequency of experience if they have to pay for it.