Uniform violations - Ma Blue is cracking down!

[AlphaSigOU]

From an e-mail message sent to an AF guy stationed at Lackland AFB:

All,

FYI/FYA. As the 37th TRW prepares for their upcoming inspection they are taking a hard look at individuals for compliance with uniform/appearance rules as well as other common customs and courtesies. There are personnel on the lookout for individuals violating the rules. Violators are being written up and handed tickets for violations. I don't expect any of you are violating the rules but below is a list of infractions from the ticket (most, but not all, pertain to while in uniform):

AFI-36-2903

• Pockets unbuttoned


• Hat on indoors


• Hat off outdoors


• Hands in pockets


• Walking/talking on cell phone


• Eating and drinking while walking


• Glasses on top of the head


• Jogging with headphones


• Items sticking out of cargo pocket


• Unserviceable uniform items


• Backpack/bag on the right shoulder


• ABU hat ranger rolled


• Not wearing a required uniform item


• Unauthorized uniform item


• Unauthorized hair items (female)


• Hair not in standards


• Driving and talking on cell phone


• Running with no shirt on (males)


• Trousers improperly bloused


• Unauthorized colored socks


• Unauthorized color T-shirt


• Unauthorized jewelry


• Customs/courtesies


• Not saluting officer


• Not saluting a staff car


• Disrespect to national anthem


• Failing to stand for a officer

Not on the ticket but passed to me by the 37 TRW Command Chief's office:

• Failing to pay proper respect during the service medley played at 1200 on Fridays
  

This is a matter of great importance to the 37 TRW for their inspection but proper wear of the uniform and observance of customs and courtesies should be as natural as breathing to all of us.

R/

Col *****

I'm assuming they're passing out AETC Form 341s (Excellence/Discrepancy Report) to trainees and probably ticketing permanent party members. As for us CAP members, they might not ticket you but could report you up the chain of command to the local squadron, and that squadron could lose its on base privileges!

This also applies to CAP members wearing a military-style uniform (AF-style, TPU and grays). Granted, Lackland AFB, aka 'Happy Valley' (as are most 'Air Etcetera' (AETC) bases) discipline is strict because of the training environment, but don't wind up being the poster boy/girl for Ma Blue for improper uniform wear.

Some bases (such as Lackland) play a medley of the service songs at 1200 hours on Friday; protocol requires the following:

When you hear "The Air Force Song" or the songs of the sister services, take the following actions:

Indoors: In uniform or civilian clothes, stand at attention. Traditionally only the first verse of the service song is played or sung. If at an official ceremony the words for the first verse normally will be printed in the program when it is a part of the ceremony.

Outdoors: In uniform or civilian clothes, stand at attention and face the direction of the music from the first to last note of the music. DO NOT SALUTE. The same courtesy is rendered to sister service songs.

Lest we lose the privilege of wearing the AF-style uniform...

[AirAux]

Considering probably less than 1 percent of us on the board are near Lackland, we will take all due measures immediately..  That is all..  Wolf, wolf, wolf..

[AlphaSigOU]

Considering probably less than 1 percent of us on the board are near Lackland, we will take all due measures immediately..  That is all..  Wolf, wolf, wolf..

True that, but better to get the heads up to all.

[Tubacap]

Not on topic, I apologize, but related, are we supposed to stand when the USAF song is played?  Is it in the new CAPP 151?

[AlphaSigOU]

Not on topic, I apologize, but related, are we supposed to stand when the USAF song is played?  Is it in the new CAPP 151?

Not in CAPP 151 nor in the new 'Respect on Display', but it is one of these 'traditions' that is being observed at some military installations.

[Climbnsink]

Don't mind rendering honors where appropriate and I love the golf shirt.   Wear a golf shirt and most of that list doesn't apply.  Go golf shirt.

[Pumbaa]

Long Live the Golf Shirt!

[JohnKachenmeister]

It has been a long tradition to stand for official service songs.

And to sing them.

NO, it is not in CAPP 151.  But you are a big jerk if you don't.

[BrandonKea]

It has been a long tradition to stand for official service songs.

And to sing them.

NO, it is not in CAPP 151.  But you are a big jerk if you don't.

Can you imagine half the CAP population trying to fake the words to the Air Force Song? 

[Eeyore]

No need to fake it, compared to the other services, the AF song is pretty easy to learn.

[BrandonKea]

No need to fake it, compared to the other services, the AF song is pretty easy to learn.

And it's real easy to follow 39-1, doesn't mean everyone does/will/wants to.

[Always Ready]

It has been a long tradition to stand for official service songs.

And to sing them.

NO, it is not in CAPP 151.  But you are a big jerk if you don't.

Can you imagine half the CAP population trying to fake the words to the Air Force Song? 

That's not as bad as the amount of people in the Air Force who fake the words to the Air Force Song. 

A friend of mine sent me the same e-mail. He seriously thought it was a joke. I'm glad someone in Mama Blue is trying to crack down on some of the uniform shenanigans. But I have a feeling that this venture at Lackland will only last until the inspection is over.

[Stonewall]

Had to learn the AF song in 1987 at my Dooley Encampment.

[es_g0d]

Over-concern with such administrivia is commonplace at Lackland; its the bread and butter there.

Unfortunately, that culture permeates downrange where it causes operational difficulties.

I'll take the sunglasses off of my head when I never maintenance cancel a flight ... 

[Stonewall]

I'll take the sunglasses off of my head when I never maintenance cancel a flight ... 

I do my best to stay in regs when in my AF uniform.  But during a 12 week TDY last year and a 2 week this year, I had to be corrected about wearing my sunglasses on my head at least 20 times.  It's a habit I just can't seem to break.  I live and work at a beach, it's just natural.

[♠SARKID♠]

It has been a long tradition to stand for official service songs.

And to sing them.

NO, it is not in CAPP 151.  But you are a big jerk if you don't.

Am I a big jerk if I don't sing "CAP is on the Go"?   

[Gunner C]

Am I a big jerk if I don't sing "CAP is on the Go"?   

MAKE IT STOP!!!!!

[Grumpy]

Hmmm, let's take a look at a couple of these felonies:

Walking while talking on a cell phone.  Obviously the new AF isn't coordinated enough to do this.  Do they have SF personnel take you by the hand and lead you across the street too?  What happens if a SF dude has to use the radio while in pursuit of a felon?  Does he have to stop?  Will the felon stop and wait for him?

Eating and drinking while walking.  Gotta admit I sometimes I have trouble walking and chewing gum but that's after I had a few.

Running without a shirt.  Was this while wearing some type of uniform or in civies?  What kind of prudes are running the AF now days?  God I miss SAC

[wingnut55]

GUNNER C

Is that a NEW CAP UNIFORM?

                                            COOL DUDE

[SarDragon]

Eating and drinking while walking.  Gotta admit I sometimes I have trouble walking and chewing gum but that's after I had a few.

That's been frowned upon in the Canoe Club for what seems like eons, specifically in the same style environment. We had folks get busted for that WIWABT. The same went for smoking.

[O-Rex]

Running with no shirt on-Null issue: if a CAP member is actually running, the attaboy would cancel the citation.

Socks-I hear that more and more bases are conducting 'random sock checks' at entrance gates...

All jokes aside, I've seen a number of editorials by USAF personnel, mostly SNCO's in AF Times and various websites that general MC&C and uniform wear has been a bit lax of late. 

I think another factor is the increase in "jointness" with the other services, and the influence and/or contrast by/with the other services' cultures, particularly in the sandbox.

[BrandonKea]

MC&C lax in the Air Force? No way!

Personally, that's a pet peeve of mine. From several of my AD friends, the C&C ends once you leave Tech School. From there, not many people actually care. Obviously this may be a bit overstated, YMMV.

While on a SAREVAL in a neighboring wing, we had a Cadet assigned to our Ground Team who was very C&C aware. Haven't heard that many Sirs from a Cadet since my first basic encampment in '00... (Kudos IAWG for the sharp cadets...)

[Grumpy]

Eating and drinking while walking.  Gotta admit I sometimes I have trouble walking and chewing gum but that's after I had a few.

That's been frowned upon in the Canoe Club for what seems like eons, specifically in the same style environment. We had folks get busted for that WIWABT. The same went for smoking.

OK, so you're in close quarters on a ship that's pitching up and down in rough seas.  I would hope that common sense would dictate to stay clear and brass yourself while drinking.  But on terra firma??

Another case of Uncle Sam over reacting and over protecting his "children" in a closed environment.

[Fifinella]

The "walking and..." prohibitions have been part of the AF for a long time.  Rationale given: doesn't look professional, distracts you from your surroundings, you might fail to render appropriate C&C if you're busy eating, etc.  "That's the fact, Jack."

[DC]

Eating and drinking while walking.  Gotta admit I sometimes I have trouble walking and chewing gum but that's after I had a few.

That's been frowned upon in the Canoe Club for what seems like eons, specifically in the same style environment. We had folks get busted for that WIWABT. The same went for smoking.

OK, so you're in close quarters on a ship that's pitching up and down in rough seas.  I would hope that common sense would dictate to stay clear and brass yourself while drinking.  But on terra firma??

Another case of Uncle Sam over reacting and over protecting his "children" in a closed environment.

Oh I don't know, all those stain-seeking white uniforms might discourage one from moving and eating/drinking at the same time...

[Grumpy]

The "walking and..." prohibitions have been part of the AF for a long time.  Rationale given: doesn't look professional, distracts you from your surroundings, you might fail to render appropriate C&C if you're busy eating, etc.  "That's the fact, Jack."

I don't know.  I got along just fine for 22 years (active and reserve).  Besides, as I read the C&C's if you're unable to render a hand salute a verbal greeting is acceptable.

[CAP.is.1337]

I'll take the sunglasses off of my head when I never maintenance cancel a flight ... 

I do my best to stay in regs when in my AF uniform.  But during a 12 week TDY last year and a 2 week this year, I had to be corrected about wearing my sunglasses on my head at least 20 times.  It's a habit I just can't seem to break.  I live and work at a beach, it's just natural.

When we visited NHQ at E-Tech last year, I had a staff member there remind me to take my glasses off my head. The funny thing is there were three of us with glasses on our head and she only told me.    Oh well, my mistake and I haven't made it again.

Also, is it kosher to have glasses on backwards and upsidedown; as if you rotated (pitch-wise) it along your head until they were pointed behind you? I learned it from another member, and while it does work well for what its meant for, I'm not entirely sure that its legal.

[BrandonKea]

I'll take the sunglasses off of my head when I never maintenance cancel a flight ... 

I do my best to stay in regs when in my AF uniform.  But during a 12 week TDY last year and a 2 week this year, I had to be corrected about wearing my sunglasses on my head at least 20 times.  It's a habit I just can't seem to break.  I live and work at a beach, it's just natural.

When we visited NHQ at E-Tech last year, I had a staff member there remind me to take my glasses off my head. The funny thing is there were three of us with glasses on our head and she only told me.    Oh well, my mistake and I haven't made it again.

Also, is it kosher to have glasses on backwards and upsidedown; as if you rotated (pitch-wise) it along your head until they were pointed behind you? I learned it from another member, and while it does work well for what its meant for, I'm not entirely sure that its legal.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that's probably not kosher either...

[LtCol057]

And no, you can't hang them by a cord around your neck. 

[Polecat]

Could someone provide a link to the reg that says you cannot walk and talk on a phone on an AFB?  I was at an airshow this past weekend and the SF got PO'ed at some of our cadets for doing that, and my C/CC wondered why and I told him and he didn't belive me.

[Grumpy]

Could someone provide a link to the reg that says you cannot walk and talk on a phone on an AFB?  I was at an airshow this past weekend and the SF got PO'ed at some of our cadets for doing that, and my C/CC wondered why and I told him and he didn't belive me.

Don't forget the bit about walking and chewing gum at the same time.

[AlphaSigOU]

Could someone provide a link to the reg that says you cannot walk and talk on a phone on an AFB?  I was at an airshow this past weekend and the SF got PO'ed at some of our cadets for doing that, and my C/CC wondered why and I told him and he didn't belive me.

AFI 36-2903, chapter 1, para 1.3 (emphasis mine):

1.3. Individuals' Responsibilities.

1.3.1. To present a professional military image individual will:

1.3.1.1. Procure and maintain all mandatory clothing items.

1.3.1.2. Review and follow local supplements and procedures.

1.3.1.3. Uniforms will be neat, clean, pressed, buttoned, and properly maintained.

1.3.2. Members will not:

1.3.2.1. Stand or walk with hands in pockets of any uniform combination, other than to insert or remove items.

1.3.2.2. Walk in uniform while using cell phones, radios, hands-free headsets unless required in the performance of official duties using a government issued device.

1.3.2.3. Smoke/use smokeless tobaccos, drink, or eat while walking in uniform.

[N Harmon]

AFI-36-2903

• Backpack/bag on the right shoulder

Apparently because it interferes with rendering a salute. Does AFI-36-2903 apply wholly to Civil Air Patrol members?

[N Harmon]

What happens if a SF dude has to use the radio while in pursuit of a felon?  Does he have to stop?  Will the felon stop and wait for him?

The reg actually says:

Members will not walk in uniform while using cell phones, radios, hands-free headsets unless required in the performance of official duties using a government issued device.

Of course, the reg ALSO says....

Must be solid or covered in black, silver, dark blue, or gray, and must be conservative. May be clipped to the left side of the waistband or purse or carried in left hand. Only one may be worn on the uniform belt.

I guess I can't carry my bright yellow Samsung rugby cellphone.

[Polecat]

Thank you Alpha.

[AlphaSigOU]

AFI-36-2903

• Backpack/bag on the right shoulder

Apparently because it interferes with rendering a salute. Does AFI-36-2903 apply wholly to Civil Air Patrol members?

If you wear AF-style uniforms, especially within a USAF installation I would be very aware of AFI 36-2903; remember that the the wear of the AF style uniform by CAP is a privilege.  Ma Blue giveth, Ma Blue can taketh away...

[N Harmon]

If you wear AF-style uniforms, especially within a USAF installation I would be very aware of AFI 36-2903; remember that the the wear of the AF style uniform by CAP is a privilege.  Ma Blue giveth, Ma Blue can taketh away...

So we should begin telling CAP members to only bring certain color backpacks , cell phones, and umbrellas?

[PHall]

If you wear AF-style uniforms, especially within a USAF installation I would be very aware of AFI 36-2903; remember that the the wear of the AF style uniform by CAP is a privilege.  Ma Blue giveth, Ma Blue can taketh away...

So we should begin telling CAP members to only bring certain color backpacks , cell phones, and umbrellas?

If you're doing something on an Active Duty Air Force Base? Might be something to think about...

[Stonewall]

In reference to the cell phone thing, check out the thread I started about the 98th Uniform Board.

It is now authorized to talk on a cell phone in uniform.

Can't hyper link it because I'm on my Crackberry.

[AlphaSigOU]

But you can't walk and use a hands-free device. WTF?

[Always Ready]

But you can't walk and use a hands-free device. WTF?

I think the thinking behind that rule is that they don't want anyone thinking a General Officer is talking to him/herself...

If you wear AF-style uniforms, especially within a USAF installation I would be very aware of AFI 36-2903; remember that the the wear of the AF style uniform by CAP is a privilege.  Ma Blue giveth, Ma Blue can taketh away...

So we should begin telling CAP members to only bring certain color backpacks , cell phones, and umbrellas?

I would, as well as any local SOPs and base policies. It's not fun to be chewed out by a first shirt for not having a reflective belt on at night (this was a few years ago when I was a cadet)....especially when it's your dad's first shirt! I got home, asked my dad about it, and I got chewed out again. Know the local rules of any military installation you visit, before you visit!

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Does AFI-36-2903 apply wholly to Civil Air Patrol members?

CAPM 39-1 says it's the definitive word on CAP uniforms, including the Air Force uniforms worn by CAP members. Unfortunately, CAPM 39-1 is woefully lacking -- and it would be better to scrap it in favor of a supplement to AFI 36-2903 that details CAP's distinctive markings to the Air Force uniforms as well as CAP's civilian combinations.

The Air Force instruction is complete, and includes references to appropriate behavior while in uniform that CAP sorely needs. So while CAPM 39-1 says it's the final word, use it for what it has, but refer to the AFI to fill in the blanks. You'll be a better CAP member for it.

[SAR-EMT1]

Shame all bases aren't cracking down.

It would be nice if my Army Guard friends would finally have reason to acknowledge
the USAF is a real military service.

[Gunner C]

Shame all bases aren't cracking down.

It would be nice if my Army Guard friends would finally have reason to acknowledge
the USAF is a real military service.

After all, they're now getting military service credit. (running for cover)