Civil Air Patrol History

Started by James Shaw, May 24, 2006, 04:45:25 PM

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Becks

Quote from: shorning on June 13, 2006, 08:25:55 PM
Quote from: flyguy06 on June 13, 2006, 03:54:39 AM
Wow. I gues nobody knows the answer to my question.

Not so much.  I thought all CAP members were blue...

Good answer....

BBATW

Matt

Quote from: shorning on June 13, 2006, 08:25:55 PM
Quote from: flyguy06 on June 13, 2006, 03:54:39 AM
Wow. I gues nobody knows the answer to my question.

Not so much.  I thought all CAP members were blue...

Well... all I know is it ain't easy being green pilgrim ;)  Or at least so says Kermit.
<a href=mailto:mkopp@ncr.cap.gov> Matthew Kopp</a>, Maj, CAP
Director of Information Technology
<a href=https://www.ncrcap.us.org> North Central Region</a>

flyguy06


James Shaw

Quote from: flyguy06 on June 13, 2006, 03:54:39 AM
Wow. I gues nobody knows the answer to my question.

I do not have access to any of my older CAP information. I will be moving into a new the middle part of July. Until then I will have to rely on memroy for questions. I will not ignore the questions It will just take a while to answer them correctly and accurately.
Jim Shaw
USN: 1987-1992
GANG: 1996-1998
CAP:2000 - Current
USCGA:2018 - Current
SGAUS: 2017 - Current

Hammer

Can you post pictures of old CAP Uniforms?  That's what I'm interested in seeing.  Also, how many former CAP NAT/CC's were current or former Military when they were the CAP NAT/CC?

shorning

Quote from: flyguy06 on June 16, 2006, 01:24:12 PM
No, I am not blue

We accept the greenish-blue of our Army comrades as long as you can put up with the bluer-blue of us AF-types. ;D

flyguy06

Quote from: Hammer on June 16, 2006, 07:08:16 PM
Can you post pictures of old CAP Uniforms?  That's what I'm interested in seeing.  Also, how many former CAP NAT/CC's were current or former Military when they were the CAP NAT/CC?

I know General Anderson was an active duty USAF Lt Col when he was National Commander

Laplace

Quote from: caphistorian on May 24, 2006, 04:45:25 PM
My name is Jim Shaw and I am the CAP Assistant National Historian and the Southeast Region Historian. I am trying to find new ways to share out history with those interested. I am willing to answer questions as best as I can and as accurate as possible. I look forward to sharing with everyone willing to listen or read.  ;D

Jim,

With the National D-Day museum's name (and focus) change to the National World War II museum, what are your ideas on giving/loaning them CAP WWII uniforms, rank, pictures, etc. for display?  This would be a great showcase for our history and contributions.

Monty

Quote from: Hammer on June 16, 2006, 07:08:16 PM
Can you post pictures of old CAP Uniforms?  That's what I'm interested in seeing.  Also, how many former CAP NAT/CC's were current or former Military when they were the CAP NAT/CC?

There is a very neat print that is posted at the Travis AFB Museum that features CAP uniforms from the WWII era...behind plexiglass.  I can post a picture of it but bear in mind, it had to be taken at an angle so as to prevent glare from the flash.

With respect to former military-type CAP CCs, I think that the overwhelming majority of them were/are vets...merely a handful haven't served in DoD.  (Might just be easier to burn the candle from the other end and identify those that haven't served in the armed forces.)

If nobody has any objections to my posting a picture of the print at Travis, I'll figure out how to do that.....

James Shaw

Quote from: lasupplyguy on June 17, 2006, 08:13:30 PM
Quote from: caphistorian on May 24, 2006, 04:45:25 PM
My name is Jim Shaw and I am the CAP Assistant National Historian and the Southeast Region Historian. I am trying to find new ways to share out history with those interested. I am willing to answer questions as best as I can and as accurate as possible. I look forward to sharing with everyone willing to listen or read.  ;D

Jim,

With the National D-Day museum's name (and focus) change to the National World War II museum, what are your ideas on giving/loaning them CAP WWII uniforms, rank, pictures, etc. for display?  This would be a great showcase for our history and contributions.


I think that would be a good idea. I will talk with the National Historian who would be the one to make the initial contact after approval from the National Board. We have uniforms and the like available in small quantity. Usually we try and get members to donate them as well. Having a display would be a big plus for us and for those who served. I will try and get some more info and share with everyone.
Jim Shaw
USN: 1987-1992
GANG: 1996-1998
CAP:2000 - Current
USCGA:2018 - Current
SGAUS: 2017 - Current

Major Lord

Sir,

I have a CAP history question that I tought you might have an answer for: Prior to CAP's Congressional Charter, we were used to wage war on the enemy. Was this a Presidential directive? Or did we have letters of marque and reprisal, as the Constitution authorizes? ( tell me it was not just a CAWG policy letter.....)

Capt. A. Lord
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

BillB

During the period you ask about CAP was under the Army Air Force after being transferred from the Office of Civilian Defense. CAP flew the anti submarine patrol in uniform. The original CAP shoulder patch did not contain the letters U.S. they were added so that if captured they would be treated as prisioner of war. Operating under the control of the Army Air Force, CAP were not considered as civilians even though the CAP command structure except for the National Commander and small military staff were all civilians. Operating under military orders no letter of marque (which only applies to non-military ships)was needed
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

bosshawk

Re: the question about active duty AF officers who were the CAP CC.  I knew one: Brig Gen David Patton.  My memory is pretty hazy, but I think that he was probably the CAP CC in the late 60s-early 70s.  I knew him in the Washington, DC area and he was still on active duty.  In fact, he was a U-2 pilot and I think, also flew B-52s and KC-135s.  My memory seems to say that he served as CAP CC as his retirement assignment.
Paul M. Reed
Col, USA(ret)
Former CAP Lt Col
Wilson #2777

DNall

Quote from: bosshawk on November 06, 2006, 05:08:46 AM
Re: the question about active duty AF officers ... [snip] ... My memory seems to say that he served as CAP CC as his retirement assignment.
That's usually been the deal for all the AD field grade types. We're not exactly the route to fast promotion. AFROTC tends to be the same deal.

NYWG Historian

Just wanted to let everyone know that our Wing History website has gone live and can be reached at: http://nywg.cap.gov/NYWHist/

Obviously, it will be a constant work-in-progress as we add new items.  Some of the projects I'm working on now include:

--Brief article detailing CAP assistance in 1957 to a search in the Catskills for a missing elephant!
--Bios and photos of all of the previous New York Wing Commanders
--Listing of New York Wing members receiving the Air Medal during WWII for coastal patrol duties
--Official base history of Coastal Patrol 17, Riverhead, Long Island
--Articles on famous NYWG members, including CB Colby, Isaac Burnham, Zack Mosley, etc.
--Photos from various decades showing NYWG members in action

We obviously have a NYWG focus, but will be adding other items as they come along. For example, I have copies of the informal Coastal Patrol Base 4 history written by Maj Isaac Burnham, as well as an official base history of Coastal Patrol 21, and a powerpoint presentation about CAP cadets who went to Antarctica in the late 1950s/early 1960s as part of Operation Deepfreeze.  These will all be added in the coming weeks.

Please feel free to contact me with feedback, thoughts, suggestions, etc.

Peter J. Turecek, Major, CAP
Historian
New York Wing

BillB

Zack Mosley was a Florida Wing Commander, during WW II, he had residence in Florida. I've called Jill Mosley, his daughter (a local call) to see if he was a member of NYWG, or just FLWG.
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

NYWG Historian

Mosley did eventually become the FL Wing Commander.  However, he joined CAP while he was an artist working in New York.  His membership serial number was 2-1-466, indicating he was the 466th member to join New York Wing.  His Air Medal listed the serial number.

From Brave Coward Zack, Mosley's autobiography:

"While in West Palm Beach in late January 1941, I learned from Ike Vermillya and other pilot friends that they had formed a Florida Civil Air Defense Squadron....Later in 1941, Jim Starr, Syd Nesbitt and I got a bunch of pilots together at Roosevelt Field (NY)....so we organized a New York squadron of civilian pilots and planes....In February 1942, my other assistant, Andy Sprague, Marie, and I headed for Florida....My Florida firends wanted me to joine their West Palm Beach CAP squadron..." (p46-47--I've jumped around a bit).

Col Wright Vermilya was the first FL Wing CC from 12/1/41-4/6/43; Maj Richard P. Robbins from 4/6/43 - 2/17/44; Lt Col Zack Mosley from 2/17/44 - 3/31/46.


Peter J. Turecek, Major, CAP
Historian
New York Wing

SKYKING607

Does anyone know the U-boat number of those sunk?  At all the U-boat sites, there is no mention of a CAP kill.....let alone two.

Any assistance would be appreciated.
CAWG Career Captain

JohnKachenmeister

Quote from: BillB on November 06, 2006, 03:36:36 AM
During the period you ask about CAP was under the Army Air Force after being transferred from the Office of Civilian Defense. CAP flew the anti submarine patrol in uniform. The original CAP shoulder patch did not contain the letters U.S. they were added so that if captured they would be treated as prisioner of war. Operating under the control of the Army Air Force, CAP were not considered as civilians even though the CAP command structure except for the National Commander and small military staff were all civilians. Operating under military orders no letter of marque (which only applies to non-military ships)was needed

Bill:

I assume this is one of those "Urban Legends" but I once heard that the "U.S." was added to the patch because with the scarlet epaulets, bright red sleeve braid, red NCO stripes, and funny-looking wings, people thought CAP officers were from some foreign Allied air force.
Another former CAP officer

JohnKachenmeister

But, I've got a serious queston:

I never remember CAP officers wearing metal pin-on rank on the flight cap.  The only devices I ever saw or heard of were the current cap piece, and before that, "C.A.P." cutout letters.  But some of the old guys (COL. Methusalah) says that for a very short time after World War II, CAP officers did wear pin-on metal rank on the flight cap. 

Do you know when such rank devices were authorized?

Another former CAP officer