Separate Organizations

[2ltAlexD]

I have an idea for the future of CAP. I think Cadets and Seniors should have two separate organizations. I think the Cadets should be called CAP and the seniors AF Aux. Then this would get rid of the soccer mom senior members that treat CAP like the glorified boyscouts and allow senior members to have the same relationship as the CG Aux to the AD CG. What do  you guys think?

[SJFedor]

I have an idea for the future of CAP. I think Cadets and Seniors should have two separate organizations. I think the Cadets should be called CAP and the seniors AF Aux. Then this would get rid of the soccer mom senior members that treat CAP like the glorified boyscouts and allow senior members to have the same relationship as the CG Aux to the AD CG. What do  you guys think?

I think if you have a problem with soccer moms, you need to address that at your local unit, instead of restructuring the entire program nationally.

[jimmydeanno]

I posed the same question in a different thread a few weeks ago, but it wasn't along the same lines.

I posed the possibility/viability of CAP become an umbrella organization with three separate programs underneath it (like Boyscouts of America).

So you would have something like this (names hypothetical):

Civil Air Patrol Incorporated
       Air Cadets
       Aerospace Educators of America
       Emergency Services Providers

Each marketed separately and run fairly independently.  Again, using BSA as the example, BSA operates Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, etc.  In more commercial endeavors, you see companies like the Coca-Cola Company and their numerous brands; Sprite, Coke, Coca-Cola, Lipton, Minute-maid, etc. 

In all honesty, I think that CAP could do this effectively, but it would initially be difficult to do.  In many ways, it might be easy to do because we don't have any brand recognition in the first place.

YMMV

[ctim]

There is a program for the soccer moms, unless they are active on the senior side they should probably be a sponsor member.

[JayT]

I have an idea for the future of CAP. I think Cadets and Seniors should have two separate organizations. I think the Cadets should be called CAP and the seniors AF Aux. Then this would get rid of the soccer mom senior members that treat CAP like the glorified boyscouts and allow senior members to have the same relationship as the CG Aux to the AD CG. What do  you guys think?

That's the worst idea ever.

You're basically 'writing off' the entire cadet program and their 'soccer mom' officers.

Also, CAP's relationship with the Air Force isn't like the USCG/USCGAux because of the Air Force, not because of 'soccer mom SM's.'

The US Coast Guard is a fairly small force, spread out over numerious small installations in hundreds of areas. Their auxiliary is needed to help relieve the stress on the main active duty guys. The Air Force simply doesn't need us to do the same thing's that the Coast Guard needs their Auxiliary too. What are we going to do for the Air Force? Answer me that, and I'll take your question a little more seriously. And I don't mean a few people, I mean thousands of SM's who would be willing to work constantly at their local installations (Oh, wait, how many state's don't have Air Force bases?)

If you want to be a super duper hardcore guy, join the Air Force. If you want to help your community, and help some young people, and your county, stay in CAP, salute, and carry on.

[2ltAlexD]

I have an idea for the future of CAP. I think Cadets and Seniors should have two separate organizations. I think the Cadets should be called CAP and the seniors AF Aux. Then this would get rid of the soccer mom senior members that treat CAP like the glorified boyscouts and allow senior members to have the same relationship as the CG Aux to the AD CG. What do  you guys think?

That's the worst idea ever.

You're basically 'writing off' the entire cadet program and their 'soccer mom' officers.

Also, CAP's relationship with the Air Force isn't like the USCG/USCGAux because of the Air Force, not because of 'soccer mom SM's.'

The US Coast Guard is a fairly small force, spread out over numerious small installations in hundreds of areas. Their auxiliary is needed to help relieve the stress on the main active duty guys. The Air Force simply doesn't need us to do the same thing's that the Coast Guard needs their Auxiliary too. What are we going to do for the Air Force? Answer me that, and I'll take your question a little more seriously. And I don't mean a few people, I mean thousands of SM's who would be willing to work constantly at their local installations (Oh, wait, how many state's don't have Air Force bases?)

If you want to be a super duper hardcore guy, join the Air Force. If you want to help your community, and help some young people, and your county, stay in CAP, salute, and carry on.

Number one, I can not join the regular AF due to my visual impairment. Number two, I have nothing against Cadets or soccer moms, I just propose a separate organization so that CAP could work more closely with active duty like in the CG Aux and not be treated as the boyscouts.

[Maj Ballard]

From my experience, the cadet program is one of the best things we have going for us, as far as our relationship with the USAF goes. If anything, it's Tooley McToolerson senior member wannabes on the ES side who do us the most damage. YMMV

[lordmonar]

...I just propose a separate organization so that CAP could work more closely with active duty like in the CG Aux and not be treated as the boyscouts.

For my experince....we are not treated like the boy scouts, we work very closely with the USAF...and it is the senors more so then the cadets that creates problems with the USAF.

YMMV

[FW]

From my vantage point, I do not feel like we're being treated like the scouts. 

This proposal has been studied many times.  The conclusions have been the same for each study; we need to stay as one organization.  As one organziation we are stronger, more effective and, better lead.

And, thanks to "soccer moms", our cadets can get the best experience possible.

[notaNCO forever]

I think it would be a bad idea to break into two organizations. If you have a problem withe soccer mom officers and cadets maybe you should join a senior squadron.

[Flying Pig]

.....and what problem is this solving?

[JayT]

I have an idea for the future of CAP. I think Cadets and Seniors should have two separate organizations. I think the Cadets should be called CAP and the seniors AF Aux. Then this would get rid of the soccer mom senior members that treat CAP like the glorified boyscouts and allow senior members to have the same relationship as the CG Aux to the AD CG. What do  you guys think?

That's the worst idea ever.

You're basically 'writing off' the entire cadet program and their 'soccer mom' officers.

Also, CAP's relationship with the Air Force isn't like the USCG/USCGAux because of the Air Force, not because of 'soccer mom SM's.'

The US Coast Guard is a fairly small force, spread out over numerious small installations in hundreds of areas. Their auxiliary is needed to help relieve the stress on the main active duty guys. The Air Force simply doesn't need us to do the same thing's that the Coast Guard needs their Auxiliary too. What are we going to do for the Air Force? Answer me that, and I'll take your question a little more seriously. And I don't mean a few people, I mean thousands of SM's who would be willing to work constantly at their local installations (Oh, wait, how many state's don't have Air Force bases?)

If you want to be a super duper hardcore guy, join the Air Force. If you want to help your community, and help some young people, and your county, stay in CAP, salute, and carry on.

Number one, I can not join the regular AF due to my visual impairment. Number two, I have nothing against Cadets or soccer moms, I just propose a separate organization so that CAP could work more closely with active duty like in the CG Aux and not be treated as the boyscouts.

And then you didn't read the rest of my post. I said plainly that the USAF does not need CAP like the USCG needs the Aux.

What exactly do you propose CAP doing for the Air Force?

[davidsinn]

We already have 2 organizations. We've got the members that are here to help out through ES, CP and/or AE. And we've got the pilot's club/GOBs that are here for their own self interests. I'm not saying all the pilots are like that but those kinds are out there. I can actually name far more of the good kinds of pilots than I can name the bad kind so I do have hope for the future of this organization.

[Gunner C]

.....and what problem is this solving?

Great question . . .

[Nathan]

I posed the same question in a different thread a few weeks ago, but it wasn't along the same lines.

I posed the possibility/viability of CAP become an umbrella organization with three separate programs underneath it (like Boyscouts of America).

So you would have something like this (names hypothetical):

Civil Air Patrol Incorporated
       Air Cadets
       Aerospace Educators of America
       Emergency Services Providers

Each marketed separately and run fairly independently.  Again, using BSA as the example, BSA operates Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, etc.  In more commercial endeavors, you see companies like the Coca-Cola Company and their numerous brands; Sprite, Coke, Coca-Cola, Lipton, Minute-maid, etc. 

In all honesty, I think that CAP could do this effectively, but it would initially be difficult to do.  In many ways, it might be easy to do because we don't have any brand recognition in the first place.

YMMV

We COULD do this, but what would be the benefit? Why give up the unified command and separate the branches? It seems like it's an idea to do for the sake of doing it, but I'm not sure how CAP would actually benefit from this move.

[PA Guy]

I think it is a bad idea and a slippery slope that you may not want to go down. It cracks me up that everytime this idea rolls around the proponents think the hardcore seniors should always be the AF Aux and the cadets should remain CAP. I wonder if they would be as enthusiastic if the the cadets were to be the AF Aux and the seniors remain CAP?

In your zeal to get rid of those pesky soccer moms and cadets you fail to mention who will be gotten rid of next. Will it be those who are overweight? Or the fuzzy ones? Or maybe those who have impairments such as vision? 

[Nathan]

I would imagine that if it came to a decision between the cadet programs and the ES side of things, the USAF's decision would be harder than many would like.

I'm interested to know the statistics of how many cadets end up enlisting or commissioning in the USAF. And while I don't know if these exist, I'm interested in knowing the general quality of these recruits versus the rest of the USAF...

No, I'm pretty happy so far with the way things are. Does anyone have an actual good reason the branches should seperate?

[Spike]

No, I'm pretty happy so far with the way things are. Does anyone have an actual good reason the branches should separate?

I would guess no??

[RiverAux]

I think that if the AF seriously thought about this they would probably decide to drop the cadet program entirley and just make it a seniors-only organization.  After all they already have a much-larger JROTC program that is probably more or less as effective as CAP at what it does for youths.  Right now the only real difference between the two is that CAP cadets can participate in ES missions, but I don't think the AF really cares about that too much. 

[RADIOMAN015]

I would imagine that if it came to a decision between the cadet programs and the ES side of things, the USAF's decision would be harder than many would like.

I'm interested to know the statistics of how many cadets end up enlisting or commissioning in the USAF. And while I don't know if these exist, I'm interested in knowing the general quality of these recruits versus the rest of the USAF...

No, I'm pretty happy so far with the way things are. Does anyone have an actual good reason the branches should seperate?

No reason to split the organization.  Just because someone is involved heavily in one aspect of the program, doesn't necessairly mean that they don't contribute to other aspects of the program.  HOWEVER, commanders do have to ensure that there's "balanced" programs in their units IF at all possible.

AF/AFRC/ANG Recruiters, do have any interest in CAP cadet members, and it isn't difficult to have them visit and give a presentation to the the cadets.  Even the younger cadets may get some information out of the presentation.  (I was a Billy Mitchell Award receiptant, who enlisted in the AF, and eventually got commissioned -- spending 20 years/retiring -- CAP training & orientation was a big factor in my choice to enter the AF (and we only got 1 stripe at that time).   

As far as college level ROTC goes, we've had comments from the detachment commanders, etc stating that CAP training (whatever branch of ROTC), strongly contributed to that member's ROTC success.  They could tell right away that the individual had some prior military training.

Regarding statistics, I think the AF on initial procument & promotion due to CAP awards, does enter a specific code into the personnel data system, so they could provide those statistics to CAP. 
RM
   

[RADIOMAN015]

I think that if the AF seriously thought about this they would probably decide to drop the cadet program entirley and just make it a seniors-only organization.  After all they already have a much-larger JROTC program that is probably more or less as effective as CAP at what it does for youths.  Right now the only real difference between the two is that CAP cadets can participate in ES missions, but I don't think the AF really cares about that too much.

Doesn't the pay for the JROTC instructors have to be funded by the local community?  Due to this significant economic downturn and school budget strains, I would suspect this is one of the programs that in some communities will be cut.
CAP's cadet program is far less expensive overall & accomplishes more that JROTC, which is basically just marching around in circles!
RM 

[2ltAlexD]

I think the reason to split the Cadet and Senior programs up would give the actual AF Aux more opportunities for actual Air Force mitions and would give CAP more respect.

[Nathan]

I think the reason to split the Cadet and Senior programs up would give the actual AF Aux more opportunities for actual Air Force mitions and would give CAP more respect.

How would either of these occur by splitting the organization?

[PA Guy]

I think the reason to split the Cadet and Senior programs up would give the actual AF Aux more opportunities for actual Air Force mitions and would give CAP more respect.

Cadets aren't part of the "actual AF Aux"?  What about the ones that are ES rated and probably participating in an AFAM somewhere today? What do you think those "actual AF mitions" might be? How would getting rid of the cadets garner more respect? Are you saying that cadets conduct themselves in such a manner as to bring disrespect on the organization? Are you suggesting that without cadets CAP would then be composed of only high speed low drag senior members? How do cadets prevent us from receiving Air Force missions?

[es_g0d]

I'm in no way advocating the position, but many emergency responders require a minimum of age 18 for liability purposes.

[Spike]

^ Our insurers don't have the same liability rules as your local EMS or Fire Company.

[Cecil DP]

I think that if the AF seriously thought about this they would probably decide to drop the cadet program entirley and just make it a seniors-only organization.  After all they already have a much-larger JROTC program that is probably more or less as effective as CAP at what it does for youths.  Right now the only real difference between the two is that CAP cadets can participate in ES missions, but I don't think the AF really cares about that too much.

Doesn't the pay for the JROTC instructors have to be funded by the local community?  Due to this significant economic downturn and school budget strains, I would suspect this is one of the programs that in some communities will be cut.
CAP's cadet program is far less expensive overall & accomplishes more that JROTC, which is basically just marching around in circles!
RM

JROTC Instructors are paid the difference between their retired pay and the pay they would receive on active duty.

[JayT]

Well, first off the orginal poster hasn't answered any of The questions asked of her throught this thread. I'd like to understand her plan better.

Second, JROTC is a lot more then just marching. I recieved much more academic knowledge in JROTC, as well as a lot more informal and formal leadership experience then I ever did in CAP. So, just because you have your stereotypes, doesn't mean thats whats right. For example, I recieved high school credit for JROTC. 

[es_g0d]

^ Our insurers don't have the same liability rules as your local EMS or Fire Company.

True.  But, in many cases, neither are they permitted to use personnel under the age of 18 on their incidents.  Thus if we wanted to work more interagency and on a greater number of incidents, this sticky issue would need to be clarified. 

[Spike]

^ Our insurers don't have the same liability rules as your local EMS or Fire Company.

True.  But, in many cases, neither are they permitted to use personnel under the age of 18 on their incidents.  Thus if we wanted to work more interagency and on a greater number of incidents, this sticky issue would need to be clarified.

True

.....JROTC is a lot more then just marching. I received much more academic knowledge in JROTC, as well as a lot more informal and formal leadership experience then I ever did in CAP. So, just because you have your stereotypes, doesn't mean that's whats right. For example, I received high school credit for JROTC. 

I was never in JROTC (just ROTC) so my question is how much student to instructor time is there during a normal week?  Is it a class everyday or just once a week?  Second, I have a fairly good Cadet Program running in the Squadron.  We have far more leadership and leadership activities (labs) than most Squadrons do.  I have a 4 person team working the Cadet Program side of the house.  With over 30 Cadets it is a big chunk of our energy in the Squadron.

I would not say that JROTC is better than CAP, nor would I say CAP is better than JROTC.  Heck, I had fewer hours in ROTC classes leading to a Commission than I spent in four years as a CAP Cadet in a classroom environment. 

[es_g0d]

And the leadership laboratory of participating in ES as a cadet provides more real-world leadership training and experience than AFJROTC, AFROTC, USAFA, or the CAP cadet program without ES could ever hope to approximate.

[JayT]

And the leadership laboratory of participating in ES as a cadet provides more real-world leadership training and experience than AFJROTC, AFROTC, USAFA, or the CAP cadet program without ES could ever hope to approximate.

First off, are you sure that you want to inculde USAFA on that list? I hear they provide some pretty good training without looking for ELT's.

Second, when it comes down to it, the ES experience and training many, if not most, cadets recieved is largely camping skills, and field craft. And some of those skills are penciled whipped in.

I think that not only could the CPR survive without ES, but may actually do better, because it wouldn't have to worry about the entirely culture of CAP ES in many places. A lot of cadets spend a lot of money on gear they'll never need to use because they don't get called out, or have other obligations.

But this is super off topic.

[es_g0d]

Yes, I'm very certain I want to include USAFA in that list.  I learned more practical leadership as a CAP cadet on a ground team than I did in four years at USAFA.    Some CAP cadets may not get as much out of the program as others, that's simply the breaks. 

Nonetheless, I firmly believe that it is ES that makes the largest standout contribution that differentiates it from other programs.  Because of that, it actually is better preparation for real life or even "the real Air Force."  Its easy to keep your boots shined if you never go out in the woods!  We're all members of the organization first, and complete the mission (necessarily) afterwards.

The CAP cadet program could certainly survive without ES.  It does so in may places.  Its simply a much richer program if ES is included.

[jimmydeanno]

My 'suggestion' earlier was thought because it would be much easier to market each program individually.  I think it would be a lot easier to answer the question, "What are you?" 

Instead of "The Civil Air Patrol is a congressionally chartered 501(c)(3) corporation with three missions; Cadet Programs, Aerospace Education and Emergency Services who perform 95% of the inland search missions tasked by the AFRCC...yada...yada...yada  which leaves people completely confused.  Also notice that the other two missions are completely left out because we go straight to the ES side.

Splitting the missions into independent groups with better delineation between them would also help with having other program managers make decisions for your program.  For example, you're the Cadet Programs guy at NHQ. 

You have a vision of the image you want to portray with the program.  You are given the ability to create materials, etc.  Then voila, the ES guy decides that every cadet must take OPSEC, regardless of whether or not they want anything to do with ES.  OPSEC, which has absolutely nothing to do with the core CAP Cadet Program requirements or needs becomes the very first thing they have to do after sending in their application, simply because to order their uniforms they need to go into e-services. 

Or for example, you have a cadet squadron who does nothing to do with ES.  Now, they run the risk of getting shut down if they don't do OPSEC, etc. 

I also think that it might be time to have our paid NHQ employees actually have some authority over the stuff they're supposed to do (like the Head Cadet Program guy being allowed to create policy and tell Wing DCPs that they need to get their crap together, etc.)

YMMV

[ZigZag911]

What are we trying to "fix" here at national level?

Confusing advertising? poor public/USAF/congressional/US government perception of our identity and capabilities?

Look, CAP is far from perfect....but the root of these problems seems to be training at the local level, and continuing the PAO effort that has been going on for some time....keep spreading the word, support our PA folks, do our jobs -- we're far stronger united than we'd be split up as proposed.

[Gunner C]

One of the challenges here is, while we have plenty of PA, we have little marketing.  What little we have is disjointed, not related to a marketing campaign.

[es_g0d]

I think that's a really good point... a marketing campaign would be excellent.

Anything would be better than the NASCAR fiasco.

[Cecil DP]

I think that's a really good point... a marketing campaign would be excellent.

Anything would be better than the NASCAR fiasco.

The $6,000,000 Million Fiasco

[Nathan]

Instead of "The Civil Air Patrol is a congressionally chartered 501(c)(3) corporation with three missions; Cadet Programs, Aerospace Education and Emergency Services who perform 95% of the inland search missions tasked by the AFRCC...yada...yada...yada  which leaves people completely confused.  Also notice that the other two missions are completely left out because we go straight to the ES side.

Eh, I solve this problem by specifically recruiting to a certain mission.

I usually start out with, "What do you know about us?" Then I move on to, "Why are you here?"

With cadets, it easy. I touch briefly on the other two missions, but hit cadet programs as hard as I can. If they're interested in doing ES, then I'll talk about ES more, but if they aren't, then for all intents and purposes, they don't need to know any more than that CAP does, in fact, have an ES branch. As far as they are concerned, CAP IS the cadet program.

I think that the problems mentioned COULD be solved by separating the branches, but I see it causing a lot more hassle than is necessary. Most of the problems mentioned can be solved internally without nearly as much work.

[Chicago_Pilot]

Eh, I solve this problem by specifically recruiting to a certain mission.

I usually start out with, "What do you know about us?" Then I move on to, "Why are you here?"

This approach makes a lot of sense.  It is the same way I was taught to flight instruct.

When I first meet up with a new flying student, I ask why they are learning how to fly.  Some are doing it to become airline pilots.  So we learn to use the rudder to make sure people don't spill their drinks.  For others, it is about recreation.  So we learn how to plan a cross country to a great resort.  One new student told me he was learning to fly in order to be able to steal airplanes!  Turns out he was a repo guy.  So we learned about the importance of logbooks (you need to repo the logbook too) and doing a thorough preflight!

If I can teach very different flying students, I think CAP can have a variety of missions.  It makes for a much richer organization.

[DG]

It is the same way I was taught to flight instruct.

When I first meet up with a new flying student, I ask why they are learning how to fly.  Some are doing it to become airline pilots.  So we learn to use the rudder to make sure people don't spill their drinks. 

Have you taught or talked to an airline pilot(s).

They don't use the rudder.  And if they did, it is then that the drinks would spill.

"Balls are for boys."

[flyguy06]

I have an idea for the future of CAP. I think Cadets and Seniors should have two separate organizations. I think the Cadets should be called CAP and the seniors AF Aux. Then this would get rid of the soccer mom senior members that treat CAP like the glorified boyscouts and allow senior members to have the same relationship as the CG Aux to the AD CG. What do  you guys think?

That's the worst idea ever.


I disagree with this. The AIr Force does need CAP. Its the USAF's responsibility for Inland SAR. They dont have the time nor the resources to goaroiund loking for every little ELT or every little lost civil aircraft. Thats where CAP comes into play. We provide relief for the USAF in the mission.

As far as seperate organizations. I disagree with that . The assumption here is that the cadet programis not a part of our USAF mission and I think that is a wrong attitude. The cadet programis supposed to be building the future officer corps of the USAF similar to what AFJROTC does. You dont see the USAF getting rid of JROTC do you? No. In fact their is an entire AF Command dedicated to administrating the AFJROTC program. thats how serious they take it.

The problem is WE dont take the cadte progeam that seriously. WE allow the "soccer mom" attitude to prevail instead of treating the cadet program as it should be treated. AN Authentic leadership program. WE allow the "boy scout" mentality. That mentalitiy is nto what the USAF had in mind when it created the cadet program.

You're basically 'writing off' the entire cadet program and their 'soccer mom' officers.

Also, CAP's relationship with the Air Force isn't like the USCG/USCGAux because of the Air Force, not because of 'soccer mom SM's.'

The US Coast Guard is a fairly small force, spread out over numerious small installations in hundreds of areas. Their auxiliary is needed to help relieve the stress on the main active duty guys. The Air Force simply doesn't need us to do the same thing's that the Coast Guard needs their Auxiliary too. What are we going to do for the Air Force? Answer me that, and I'll take your question a little more seriously. And I don't mean a few people, I mean thousands of SM's who would be willing to work constantly at their local installations (Oh, wait, how many state's don't have Air Force bases?)

If you want to be a super duper hardcore guy, join the Air Force. If you want to help your community, and help some young people, and your county, stay in CAP, salute, and carry on.

[Eclipse]

This would be an excellent way to kill CAP.

I know in my AOR, a lot of members who are leaders in the organization are involved primarily for ES, however they consider involvement in the CP a huge benefit.  Having to make a choice would mean losing that person as an asset on one side or the other, likely the CP side (at least for those I know), however many would choose CP.

Many of our major activities like flight encampments, etc., rely on ES-pilots who support these as well and would be unavailable in your plan.  The encampment I run is staffed primarily with members who are fully-engaged in ES and would have a hard time giving that up.

Also, would you out-and-out ban a member of CAP-CP from being a member of CAP-ES?  If so, how?  And if not, you're likely making things worse, as the reporting structures would get even more muddled, as would funding, etc.

Let's also look at commanders - they are hard enough to find today, assuming none of the above were true, where are you going to find double the unit CC's over night to split things up?

CAP's operational role is a huge part of the experience for many members and a big recruting benefit.  Without it we become something "other" and may well not compare favorably to similar organizations that we compete for members with.

[RiverAux]

While I'm not in favor of this idea, the flying AF Aux could still do o-rides for the cadet CAP.  After all, we're giving o-rides to AFJROTC cadets. 

[JayT]

I have an idea for the future of CAP. I think Cadets and Seniors should have two separate organizations. I think the Cadets should be called CAP and the seniors AF Aux. Then this would get rid of the soccer mom senior members that treat CAP like the glorified boyscouts and allow senior members to have the same relationship as the CG Aux to the AD CG. What do  you guys think?

That's the worst idea ever.


I disagree with this. The AIr Force does need CAP. Its the USAF's responsibility for Inland SAR. They dont have the time nor the resources to goaroiund loking for every little ELT or every little lost civil aircraft. Thats where CAP comes into play. We provide relief for the USAF in the mission.

As far as seperate organizations. I disagree with that . The assumption here is that the cadet programis not a part of our USAF mission and I think that is a wrong attitude. The cadet programis supposed to be building the future officer corps of the USAF similar to what AFJROTC does. You dont see the USAF getting rid of JROTC do you? No. In fact their is an entire AF Command dedicated to administrating the AFJROTC program. thats how serious they take it.

The problem is WE dont take the cadte progeam that seriously. WE allow the "soccer mom" attitude to prevail instead of treating the cadet program as it should be treated. AN Authentic leadership program. WE allow the "boy scout" mentality. That mentalitiy is nto what the USAF had in mind when it created the cadet program.

You're basically 'writing off' the entire cadet program and their 'soccer mom' officers.

Also, CAP's relationship with the Air Force isn't like the USCG/USCGAux because of the Air Force, not because of 'soccer mom SM's.'

The US Coast Guard is a fairly small force, spread out over numerious small installations in hundreds of areas. Their auxiliary is needed to help relieve the stress on the main active duty guys. The Air Force simply doesn't need us to do the same thing's that the Coast Guard needs their Auxiliary too. What are we going to do for the Air Force? Answer me that, and I'll take your question a little more seriously. And I don't mean a few people, I mean thousands of SM's who would be willing to work constantly at their local installations (Oh, wait, how many state's don't have Air Force bases?)

If you want to be a super duper hardcore guy, join the Air Force. If you want to help your community, and help some young people, and your county, stay in CAP, salute, and carry on.

Not entirely sure what you managed to do there with the post but......

I know that the Air Force is dedicated to Inland SAR, but if CAP went away, local assists and teams could pick the slack up eventually, and in the case of police, fire, and EMS services, would love the additional funding. (Not that we're not the best at it, but still)

I don't know if the 'soccer' mom officer mentality is as wide spread as people are acting.

[notaNCO forever]

I don't know if the 'soccer' mom officer mentality is as wide spread as people are acting.

Even if it is as long as they are being productive and not hindering the program it is a good thing. I don't care if you are a 90 year old grandmother if you benefit the program in any it's a good thing to have them.

[O-Rex]

This concept has been beaten to death both on previous CAPTalk threads and at countless late-night eating establishments across the nation.

Three missions, 50K members, period. 

If we can't collectively multi-task, we are in the wrong business.

[PA Guy]

While I'm not in favor of this idea, the flying AF Aux could still do o-rides for the cadet CAP.  After all, we're giving o-rides to AFJROTC cadets.

How about we make that the cadet AF Aux and the flying CAP    Sorry, couldn't resist it's been a slow day.

[Eclipse]

I don't know if the 'soccer' mom officer mentality is as wide spread as people are acting.

Even if it is as long as they are being productive and not hindering the program it is a good thing.

I would hazard a guess that if they were being an asset, they wouldn't be referred to as "soccer mom".
Remember, all membership is at the pleasure of the CC, if they are being a PITA, suggest they adjust their focus and/or move elsewhere.