Separate Organizations

[2ltAlexD]

I have an idea for the future of CAP. I think Cadets and Seniors should have two separate organizations. I think the Cadets should be called CAP and the seniors AF Aux. Then this would get rid of the soccer mom senior members that treat CAP like the glorified boyscouts and allow senior members to have the same relationship as the CG Aux to the AD CG. What do  you guys think?

[SJFedor]

I have an idea for the future of CAP. I think Cadets and Seniors should have two separate organizations. I think the Cadets should be called CAP and the seniors AF Aux. Then this would get rid of the soccer mom senior members that treat CAP like the glorified boyscouts and allow senior members to have the same relationship as the CG Aux to the AD CG. What do  you guys think?

I think if you have a problem with soccer moms, you need to address that at your local unit, instead of restructuring the entire program nationally.

[jimmydeanno]

I posed the same question in a different thread a few weeks ago, but it wasn't along the same lines.

I posed the possibility/viability of CAP become an umbrella organization with three separate programs underneath it (like Boyscouts of America).

So you would have something like this (names hypothetical):

Civil Air Patrol Incorporated
       Air Cadets
       Aerospace Educators of America
       Emergency Services Providers

Each marketed separately and run fairly independently.  Again, using BSA as the example, BSA operates Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, etc.  In more commercial endeavors, you see companies like the Coca-Cola Company and their numerous brands; Sprite, Coke, Coca-Cola, Lipton, Minute-maid, etc. 

In all honesty, I think that CAP could do this effectively, but it would initially be difficult to do.  In many ways, it might be easy to do because we don't have any brand recognition in the first place.

YMMV

[ctim]

There is a program for the soccer moms, unless they are active on the senior side they should probably be a sponsor member.

[JayT]

I have an idea for the future of CAP. I think Cadets and Seniors should have two separate organizations. I think the Cadets should be called CAP and the seniors AF Aux. Then this would get rid of the soccer mom senior members that treat CAP like the glorified boyscouts and allow senior members to have the same relationship as the CG Aux to the AD CG. What do  you guys think?

That's the worst idea ever.

You're basically 'writing off' the entire cadet program and their 'soccer mom' officers.

Also, CAP's relationship with the Air Force isn't like the USCG/USCGAux because of the Air Force, not because of 'soccer mom SM's.'

The US Coast Guard is a fairly small force, spread out over numerious small installations in hundreds of areas. Their auxiliary is needed to help relieve the stress on the main active duty guys. The Air Force simply doesn't need us to do the same thing's that the Coast Guard needs their Auxiliary too. What are we going to do for the Air Force? Answer me that, and I'll take your question a little more seriously. And I don't mean a few people, I mean thousands of SM's who would be willing to work constantly at their local installations (Oh, wait, how many state's don't have Air Force bases?)

If you want to be a super duper hardcore guy, join the Air Force. If you want to help your community, and help some young people, and your county, stay in CAP, salute, and carry on.

[2ltAlexD]

I have an idea for the future of CAP. I think Cadets and Seniors should have two separate organizations. I think the Cadets should be called CAP and the seniors AF Aux. Then this would get rid of the soccer mom senior members that treat CAP like the glorified boyscouts and allow senior members to have the same relationship as the CG Aux to the AD CG. What do  you guys think?

That's the worst idea ever.

You're basically 'writing off' the entire cadet program and their 'soccer mom' officers.

Also, CAP's relationship with the Air Force isn't like the USCG/USCGAux because of the Air Force, not because of 'soccer mom SM's.'

The US Coast Guard is a fairly small force, spread out over numerious small installations in hundreds of areas. Their auxiliary is needed to help relieve the stress on the main active duty guys. The Air Force simply doesn't need us to do the same thing's that the Coast Guard needs their Auxiliary too. What are we going to do for the Air Force? Answer me that, and I'll take your question a little more seriously. And I don't mean a few people, I mean thousands of SM's who would be willing to work constantly at their local installations (Oh, wait, how many state's don't have Air Force bases?)

If you want to be a super duper hardcore guy, join the Air Force. If you want to help your community, and help some young people, and your county, stay in CAP, salute, and carry on.

Number one, I can not join the regular AF due to my visual impairment. Number two, I have nothing against Cadets or soccer moms, I just propose a separate organization so that CAP could work more closely with active duty like in the CG Aux and not be treated as the boyscouts.

[Maj Ballard]

From my experience, the cadet program is one of the best things we have going for us, as far as our relationship with the USAF goes. If anything, it's Tooley McToolerson senior member wannabes on the ES side who do us the most damage. YMMV

[lordmonar]

...I just propose a separate organization so that CAP could work more closely with active duty like in the CG Aux and not be treated as the boyscouts.

For my experince....we are not treated like the boy scouts, we work very closely with the USAF...and it is the senors more so then the cadets that creates problems with the USAF.

YMMV

[FW]

From my vantage point, I do not feel like we're being treated like the scouts. 

This proposal has been studied many times.  The conclusions have been the same for each study; we need to stay as one organization.  As one organziation we are stronger, more effective and, better lead.

And, thanks to "soccer moms", our cadets can get the best experience possible.

[notaNCO forever]

I think it would be a bad idea to break into two organizations. If you have a problem withe soccer mom officers and cadets maybe you should join a senior squadron.

[Flying Pig]

.....and what problem is this solving?

[JayT]

I have an idea for the future of CAP. I think Cadets and Seniors should have two separate organizations. I think the Cadets should be called CAP and the seniors AF Aux. Then this would get rid of the soccer mom senior members that treat CAP like the glorified boyscouts and allow senior members to have the same relationship as the CG Aux to the AD CG. What do  you guys think?

That's the worst idea ever.

You're basically 'writing off' the entire cadet program and their 'soccer mom' officers.

Also, CAP's relationship with the Air Force isn't like the USCG/USCGAux because of the Air Force, not because of 'soccer mom SM's.'

The US Coast Guard is a fairly small force, spread out over numerious small installations in hundreds of areas. Their auxiliary is needed to help relieve the stress on the main active duty guys. The Air Force simply doesn't need us to do the same thing's that the Coast Guard needs their Auxiliary too. What are we going to do for the Air Force? Answer me that, and I'll take your question a little more seriously. And I don't mean a few people, I mean thousands of SM's who would be willing to work constantly at their local installations (Oh, wait, how many state's don't have Air Force bases?)

If you want to be a super duper hardcore guy, join the Air Force. If you want to help your community, and help some young people, and your county, stay in CAP, salute, and carry on.

Number one, I can not join the regular AF due to my visual impairment. Number two, I have nothing against Cadets or soccer moms, I just propose a separate organization so that CAP could work more closely with active duty like in the CG Aux and not be treated as the boyscouts.

And then you didn't read the rest of my post. I said plainly that the USAF does not need CAP like the USCG needs the Aux.

What exactly do you propose CAP doing for the Air Force?

[davidsinn]

We already have 2 organizations. We've got the members that are here to help out through ES, CP and/or AE. And we've got the pilot's club/GOBs that are here for their own self interests. I'm not saying all the pilots are like that but those kinds are out there. I can actually name far more of the good kinds of pilots than I can name the bad kind so I do have hope for the future of this organization.

[Gunner C]

.....and what problem is this solving?

Great question . . .

[Nathan]

I posed the same question in a different thread a few weeks ago, but it wasn't along the same lines.

I posed the possibility/viability of CAP become an umbrella organization with three separate programs underneath it (like Boyscouts of America).

So you would have something like this (names hypothetical):

Civil Air Patrol Incorporated
       Air Cadets
       Aerospace Educators of America
       Emergency Services Providers

Each marketed separately and run fairly independently.  Again, using BSA as the example, BSA operates Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, etc.  In more commercial endeavors, you see companies like the Coca-Cola Company and their numerous brands; Sprite, Coke, Coca-Cola, Lipton, Minute-maid, etc. 

In all honesty, I think that CAP could do this effectively, but it would initially be difficult to do.  In many ways, it might be easy to do because we don't have any brand recognition in the first place.

YMMV

We COULD do this, but what would be the benefit? Why give up the unified command and separate the branches? It seems like it's an idea to do for the sake of doing it, but I'm not sure how CAP would actually benefit from this move.

[PA Guy]

I think it is a bad idea and a slippery slope that you may not want to go down. It cracks me up that everytime this idea rolls around the proponents think the hardcore seniors should always be the AF Aux and the cadets should remain CAP. I wonder if they would be as enthusiastic if the the cadets were to be the AF Aux and the seniors remain CAP?

In your zeal to get rid of those pesky soccer moms and cadets you fail to mention who will be gotten rid of next. Will it be those who are overweight? Or the fuzzy ones? Or maybe those who have impairments such as vision? 

[Nathan]

I would imagine that if it came to a decision between the cadet programs and the ES side of things, the USAF's decision would be harder than many would like.

I'm interested to know the statistics of how many cadets end up enlisting or commissioning in the USAF. And while I don't know if these exist, I'm interested in knowing the general quality of these recruits versus the rest of the USAF...

No, I'm pretty happy so far with the way things are. Does anyone have an actual good reason the branches should seperate?

[Spike]

No, I'm pretty happy so far with the way things are. Does anyone have an actual good reason the branches should separate?

I would guess no??

[RiverAux]

I think that if the AF seriously thought about this they would probably decide to drop the cadet program entirley and just make it a seniors-only organization.  After all they already have a much-larger JROTC program that is probably more or less as effective as CAP at what it does for youths.  Right now the only real difference between the two is that CAP cadets can participate in ES missions, but I don't think the AF really cares about that too much. 

[RADIOMAN015]

I would imagine that if it came to a decision between the cadet programs and the ES side of things, the USAF's decision would be harder than many would like.

I'm interested to know the statistics of how many cadets end up enlisting or commissioning in the USAF. And while I don't know if these exist, I'm interested in knowing the general quality of these recruits versus the rest of the USAF...

No, I'm pretty happy so far with the way things are. Does anyone have an actual good reason the branches should seperate?

No reason to split the organization.  Just because someone is involved heavily in one aspect of the program, doesn't necessairly mean that they don't contribute to other aspects of the program.  HOWEVER, commanders do have to ensure that there's "balanced" programs in their units IF at all possible.

AF/AFRC/ANG Recruiters, do have any interest in CAP cadet members, and it isn't difficult to have them visit and give a presentation to the the cadets.  Even the younger cadets may get some information out of the presentation.  (I was a Billy Mitchell Award receiptant, who enlisted in the AF, and eventually got commissioned -- spending 20 years/retiring -- CAP training & orientation was a big factor in my choice to enter the AF (and we only got 1 stripe at that time).   

As far as college level ROTC goes, we've had comments from the detachment commanders, etc stating that CAP training (whatever branch of ROTC), strongly contributed to that member's ROTC success.  They could tell right away that the individual had some prior military training.

Regarding statistics, I think the AF on initial procument & promotion due to CAP awards, does enter a specific code into the personnel data system, so they could provide those statistics to CAP. 
RM