Off goes the FLWG patch!!!

[Hawk200]

I would kind of like to see everyone with that patch (the seal with the name of the state above, like it is

I wouldn't. If we had to absolutely have a patch on the left arm, why not keep it simple with the membership in mind, and go with the original CAP emblem (circle, triangle tri-prop). Maybe use the one with "U.S." on it. Don't use the the "Civil Air Patrol" tab arc on the top, it's already elsewhere on the uniform. The redundancy department can keep their own counsel, we don't need it.

As for each state having a tab, why? HWSRN was right on one thing, we did have 52 separate Civil Air Patrols. The same patch would be worn by every member of our organization. Got no problem with squadron patches, most of them had the full unit ID on it anyway. You can find out where someone is from by looking it up. Or even easier, ask them.

There's way too much of "Well back in XX Wing...". That attitude should go away. I'm kind of glad to hear that Florida has rescinded their "everyone wears the optional patch" policy. That's a change I can get behind.

[PHall]

Just curious why do you hate wearing the wing patch on BDU's? But you dont mind wearing all those other colorful patches?

Well, if we were the Civil ARMY Patrol, then wearing the flag and the wing patch on the shoulder would look "right".
But we're the Civil Air Patrol and we are the Auxiliary of the Air Force. And the Air Force does not wear ANY insignia on their shoulders with the exception of the flag in certain specified overseas areas.

[Hawk200]

And the Air Force does not wear ANY insignia on their shoulders with the exception of the flag in certain specified overseas areas.

Not even sure if they do that anymore either. Haven't seen any flags on ABU's here. Of course, the Air Force guys wearing ACU's are, but that's not Air Force uniform.

[Stonewall]

I was at Moody and saw every member from the 820th Security Forces Group with flags on their ABUs.

[Stonewall]

Just curious why do you hate wearing the wing patch on BDU's? But you dont mind wearing all those other colorful patches?

I would also like to hear that answer aswell...

First, as I posted in the first couple of replies I don't hate wing patches.

But here are four reasons why I don't care for them:

1) The myriad of shapes/sizes/colors represented in wing patches
2) A general desire to de-clutter uniforms as much as possible
3) The fact the wing patch location/Flag patch is more an Army than Air Force style of patch placement (and I'm a former Army guy)
4) Cost.  While a single wing patch doesn't cost but $2.00, many cadets (and some seniors) are inclined to max out on patches.  Which can go from $2.00 to $10.00, plus the cost of shipping and having them sewn on, sometimes incorrectly.

The more options we have, the more opportunities we have to look bad.  I have seen a lot of screwed up sewing jobs, mis-measurement, mis-aligned, wrong location and incorrect patches worn in 22 years of CAP.  If we didn't have patches, we wouldn't have a problem.  Plus, we'd save on tens of thousands of dollars every year.

I am a less is more kind of guy when it comes to uniforms.

I commanded a squadron where I got rid of the squadron patch and encouraged cadets not to wear first aid patches, model rocketry, ES, or even NCSA patches on their BDUs.  The appearance of that squadron standing in formation was striking.  It truly made us all look uniform.  Extremely professional in nature and an overall military look.  One of the best sites of 20 members standing in formation at one time. 

That's why.  Clutter does not equal high speed.  Patches does not equal "coolness".  Flag patches do not make you patriotic.  One team.  One mission.  One uniform.

[Hawk200]

I was at Moody and saw every member from the 820th Security Forces Group with flags on their ABUs.

Really? Haven't seen a single person wearing one on ABU's here. Wonder why? It's a little wierd.

Anyway, were they wearing them on the correct shoulder?

[Stonewall]

I honestly don't remember, it was a year ago.  In fact, now that I think about it, some had flags while others had sage green velcro where the flags would go. 

I want to say it was on the right shoulder because as AF cops, they would wear the SF brassard on theor left shoulder if pulling security duty overseas.

Yes, right shoulder.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I was at Moody and saw every member from the 820th Security Forces Group with flags on their ABUs.

Really? Haven't seen a single person wearing one on ABU's here. Wonder why? It's a little wierd.

Anyway, were they wearing them on the correct shoulder?

I think that the AF leaves the decision on flags up to either the MAJCOM or the base commander in CONUS.  Overseas it is somewhat important for folks to know what country we are from.

[O-Rex]

I was at Moody and saw every member from the 820th Security Forces Group with flags on their ABUs.

Really? Haven't seen a single person wearing one on ABU's here. Wonder why? It's a little wierd.

Anyway, were they wearing them on the correct shoulder?

I think that the AF leaves the decision on flags up to either the MAJCOM or the base commander in CONUS.  Overseas it is somewhat important for folks to know what country we are from.

Yes, somewhat. . . .

Same applies here: we should keep our flags on, lest someone think of us as one of those Brazilian CAP members......

b/t/w, can the 'black vans' make it to South America? 

(thought I'd lend some levity, since the topic kind of derailed. . . )

[BuckeyeDEJ]

I would kind of like to see everyone with that patch (the seal with the name of the state above, like it is

I wouldn't. If we had to absolutely have a patch on the left arm, why not keep it simple with the membership in mind, and go with the original CAP emblem (circle, triangle tri-prop). Maybe use the one with "U.S." on it. Don't use the the "Civil Air Patrol" tab arc on the top, it's already elsewhere on the uniform. The redundancy department can keep their own counsel, we don't need it.

As for each state having a tab, why? HWSRN was right on one thing, we did have 52 separate Civil Air Patrols. The same patch would be worn by every member of our organization. Got no problem with squadron patches, most of them had the full unit ID on it anyway. You can find out where someone is from by looking it up. Or even easier, ask them.

There's way too much of "Well back in XX Wing...". That attitude should go away. I'm kind of glad to hear that Florida has rescinded their "everyone wears the optional patch" policy. That's a change I can get behind.

You mean the blue "Civil Air Patrol" tape across the chest didn't say "Civil Air Patrol" enough for us? It's the same logic that puts the prop-and-triangle on every squadron, wing and region patch. You're already in CAP, and you're identified as such, so... DUH.

[biomed441]

Just curious why do you hate wearing the wing patch on BDU's? But you dont mind wearing all those other colorful patches?

I would also like to hear that answer aswell...

First, as I posted in the first couple of replies I don't hate wing patches.

But here are four reasons why I don't care for them:

1) The myriad of shapes/sizes/colors represented in wing patches
2) A general desire to de-clutter uniforms as much as possible
3) The fact the wing patch location/Flag patch is more an Army than Air Force style of patch placement (and I'm a former Army guy)
4) Cost.  While a single wing patch doesn't cost but $2.00, many cadets (and some seniors) are inclined to max out on patches.  Which can go from $2.00 to $10.00, plus the cost of shipping and having them sewn on, sometimes incorrectly.

The more options we have, the more opportunities we have to look bad.  I have seen a lot of screwed up sewing jobs, mis-measurement, mis-aligned, wrong location and incorrect patches worn in 22 years of CAP.  If we didn't have patches, we wouldn't have a problem.  Plus, we'd save on tens of thousands of dollars every year.

I am a less is more kind of guy when it comes to uniforms.

I commanded a squadron where I got rid of the squadron patch and encouraged cadets not to wear first aid patches, model rocketry, ES, or even NCSA patches on their BDUs.  The appearance of that squadron standing in formation was striking.  It truly made us all look uniform.  Extremely professional in nature and an overall military look.  One of the best sites of 20 members standing in formation at one time. 

That's why.  Clutter does not equal high speed.  Patches does not equal "coolness".  Flag patches do not make you patriotic.  One team.  One mission.  One uniform.

:clap:

[Hawk200]

I would kind of like to see everyone with that patch (the seal with the name of the state above, like it is

I wouldn't. If we had to absolutely have a patch on the left arm, why not keep it simple with the membership in mind, and go with the original CAP emblem (circle, triangle tri-prop). Maybe use the one with "U.S." on it. Don't use the the "Civil Air Patrol" tab arc on the top, it's already elsewhere on the uniform. The redundancy department can keep their own counsel, we don't need it.

As for each state having a tab, why? HWSRN was right on one thing, we did have 52 separate Civil Air Patrols. The same patch would be worn by every member of our organization. Got no problem with squadron patches, most of them had the full unit ID on it anyway. You can find out where someone is from by looking it up. Or even easier, ask them.

There's way too much of "Well back in XX Wing...". That attitude should go away. I'm kind of glad to hear that Florida has rescinded their "everyone wears the optional patch" policy. That's a change I can get behind.

You mean the blue "Civil Air Patrol" tape across the chest didn't say "Civil Air Patrol" enough for us? It's the same logic that puts the prop-and-triangle on every squadron, wing and region patch. You're already in CAP, and you're identified as such, so... DUH.

Not sure I get the point.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Hawk:

I think he means that use of the Prop-and-Triangle, along with the "Civil Air Patrol" across your chest, AND the same symbol incorporated into the unit patch would tend to be a bit of "CAP Overkill."  After all, how many times and on how many body surfaces do we need to post it?

[Hawk200]

Hawk:

I think he means that use of the Prop-and-Triangle, along with the "Civil Air Patrol" across your chest, AND the same symbol incorporated into the unit patch would tend to be a bit of "CAP Overkill."  After all, how many times and on how many body surfaces do we need to post it?

Hmmm....

I would advocate the use of the circle/triangle/prop with US on it as a shoulder patch. For unit patches, I've always considered it unimaginative to incorporate it. Unit patches should be distinct to the unit, show it's locale or what they consider their primary mission.

We have a CAP tape, no reason to use the emblem with CAP spelled out on it. It goes back to our beginnings, if we absolutely had to have a shoulder patch, I think the first original would be most fitting.

Personally, I'd prefer no shoulder patches at all. It was a carryoever that never really got addressed. Seems like we ought to address it.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I agree with you, Hawk.  First, there are too many patches already, and the USAF no longer wears patches on the shoulders.  That's a throwback to when we were an auxiliary of the Army Air Corps.

We are real slow to change with the times.  We still have plastic-encased insignia, and we still use leather name badges on our flight suits.

Which, I guess, fits, since we still fly airplanes with propellers.

[MIKE]

Looks like this one is done.