Off goes the FLWG patch!!!

[Stonewall]

Thank you FLWG CC!!!


From today at 17:30:

Effective immediately, FLWG Policy Letter 06-02 "FLORIDA WING PATCH" requiring the wear of the FLWG patch on the left sleeve of the BDU/Utility uniform is rescinded.

I have hated the wing patch on BDUs for the longest time; even moreso when FLWG changed to the big circular CAP patch with "FLORIDA" arch.

Mine is already off!

[RiverAux]

Having had to wear one of the more cartoonish wing patches at one time, I can sympathize.  However, in general, I like the wing patch on the BDUs.  I think it helps build a little Wing pride. 

[Stonewall]

I am actually not 100% against wing patches as a whole.  I just don't care for cartoon like patches with too many colors.  I also felt like the current FLWG patch was too "official" or "ceremonial" to be worn on BDUs.  It looked good on blues, but BDUs, not so much.

I actually liked the DCWG patch because it matched everything else on the BDUs with it's white on blue design.

Across the board, I say no wing patches.

[RiverAux]

Across the board, I say no wing patches.

Why?  I can understand objections to specific designs, but what is wrong with them in general?

[Stonewall]

In my opinion most wing patches are too gaudy and add to an already too colorful uniform.

Just my opinion.  I'm a name tapes, rank and badge guy where everything is the same color (white/blue).  I'm not a fan of the American flag being on our uniform either. 

[DC]

Cite please?

There isn't anything on the FLWG webpage, nor have I seen anything like that on the wing email list..

[Stonewall]

I'm on the wing email list.  Got it from the CC today at 17:30 on my flwg.us account.  Standby for PM.  I'll send you the email.

[Stonewall]

PM sent, DC.

[biomed441]

In my opinion most wing patches are too gaudy and add to an already too colorful uniform.

Just my opinion.  I'm a name tapes, rank and badge guy where everything is the same color (white/blue).  I'm not a fan of the American flag being on our uniform either. 

I agree. We are colorful enough as it is. Some wing patches do look alright on the BDU's though. OKWG has a good patch i think. Its mostly blue and so that helps tie it together with the tapes.  I actually like what my old squadron did in CA and had a subdued squadron patch created for the BDU's. I understand we don't need to have subdued tapes or patches, but doesn't mean we have to run around looking like clowns. Can't the AF grant us a little bit more dignity?

I digress though as the blue tapes were designed for the blue utility uniforms if I'm not mistaken, in which case that made them look proper, but since we do have BDU's now as an option, and who knows maybe even ACU's in the next 10 years or so, I don't see any reason why they cant match.

I'm going off topic though and so wingpatches or no, doesn't really make a difference to me as long as they don't look out of place on a uniform. Just be thankful we aren't wearing our ribbons on our BDU's.

[Stonewall]

I digress though as the blue tapes were designed for the blue utility uniforms if I'm not mistaken,

Nope, the blue name tapes come from a long long time ago when the AF wore them on their fatigues as did CAP.  The AF later went to subdued name tapes but CAP stayed with white/blue, even after the AF switched to BDUs.

[MIKE]

^ Off topic:  That is one example where direct embroidery does not look good.

On topic:  Death to patches!

[biomed441]

Nope, the blue name tapes come from a long long time ago when the AF wore them on their fatigues as did CAP.  The AF later went to subdued name tapes but CAP stayed with white/blue, even after the AF switched to BDUs.

Ah I see, thanks for the correction then. All the more reason we should be using the green with blue tapes then for the BDU's. Though That will never happen.

[biomed441]

^ Off topic:  That is one example where direct embroidery does not look good.

On topic:  Death to patches!

Haha, patches I thnk are alright. Just subdue them. Or cut down on the colors a bit. CA Wing obviously had no issue with my old squadron subing' their squadron patch. No reason the wing patches couldn't be done the same way.

[JC004]

...
On topic:  Death to patches!

w00t!

[Stonewall]

FYI:

Current FLWG Patch



Former FLWG Patch

[Eclipse]

I digress though as the blue tapes were designed for the blue utility uniforms if I'm not mistaken,

Nope, the blue name tapes come from a long long time ago when the AF wore them on their fatigues as did CAP.  The AF later went to subdued name tapes but CAP stayed with white/blue, even after the AF switched to BDUs.

Ditto - CAP's only been wearing the blue field uniform about what, 5-6 years or so?

[JoeTomasone]

I really like the current patch; I'd be jumping for joy today if I had been forced to wear the former patch - that one is hideous!

I'll be keeping my Wing patch.

[AlphaSigOU]

I really like the current patch; I'd be jumping for joy today if I had been forced to wear the former patch - that one is hideous!

I'll be keeping my Wing patch.

Sacrilege!!! 'Pregnant alligator' forever! (Old-school FL Wing cadet...  )

[ThorntonOL]

Don't get mad at me but I would rather wear the old patch than the new one if I was in Florida wing.
Looks almost like the embroidered patch on the polos.\
Just doesn't look like it means anything to the wing as the old one does.
I liked it when each wing had it's own wing patch, you could tell where someone was visiting from and also for those who went to NCSA's (I haven't been to one at all.) could tell everyone back home who hey met and from where, even if you couldn't remember where they said they where from you usually could remember from their wing patch.

[JoeTomasone]

I really like the current patch; I'd be jumping for joy today if I had been forced to wear the former patch - that one is hideous!

I'll be keeping my Wing patch.

Sacrilege!!! 'Pregnant alligator' forever! (Old-school FL Wing cadet...  )

GAH!  If I had ever come across someone with that patch AND the Pluto patch I might have gagged. 

I came up in NYWG, that patch was OK.   I've always liked the CAP Seal, so I like it as a Wing Patch.  <shrug>

[Stonewall]

Like I said, I'm not a fan of patches, but I wasn't too torn up about wearing this one for almost 15 years...

[Smokey]

Why is there an obscession by some to put as much bling on BDUs?  Some of our patches are cartoonish to such a degree that we look like s skit from Saturday Night Live. 

I've seen BDUs with more patches than a Boy Scout sash. (No offense to scouts, as I wuz one-long ago)

It's time to clean up the bling...no need to look like Leon the Neon.

[Gunner C]

FYI:

Current FLWG Patch



Former FLWG Patch

The old FLWG patch looks like a low-grade squadron patch.  I can't believe that they got away with ripping off the old command patch.  If wings are going to use the patches, here's what they should do:

• Put them on a shield with a scroll at the bottom.
• Change the colors so they don't look so garish on BDUs
• Put the patch on the right pocket (USAF got rid of shoulder patches over 40 years ago)

[BuckeyeDEJ]

I got the message tonight, and was quite happy. Now to remove the superfluous flag from the other side and kill the "Goofy" patch....

I'd love to see wing patches standardized like the Air Force, if we're to maintain them -- using the original heraldry, which means Florida's gator and Mississippi's southern gentleman. Put them in the Air Force boiler shield.

Heck, give me a crack at Florida's. The gator needs some work... when have you ever seen an alligator with a white belly or a misshapen tail?

[RiverAux]

Put the patch on the right pocket (USAF got rid of shoulder patches over 40 years ago)

Where would the squadron patch go? 

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Put the patch on the right pocket (USAF got rid of shoulder patches over 40 years ago)

Where would the squadron patch go? 

Where Big Blue puts them, I say.

[Hawk200]

Put the patch on the right pocket (USAF got rid of shoulder patches over 40 years ago)

Where would the squadron patch go? 

Where Big Blue puts them, I say.

They don't put them anywhere on their ABU's. When I started out, BDU's had the squadron patch over the nametag, with a wing patch on the left pocket, command on the right one. Then it changed to Command on right, squadron on left. Then they went to the "option".

I wouldn't mind AF command shaped wing patches on the right pocket, squadron on left. Over the pocket, go for optionals (schools, ES, etc.). I think that there ought to be at least a unit patch. It shows unit pride. It also makes it easier to dig up the CO of someone who is being a problem child at multi unit events.

[biomed441]

They don't put them anywhere on their ABU's. When I started out, BDU's had the squadron patch over the nametag, with a wing patch on the left pocket, command on the right one. Then it changed to Command on right, squadron on left. Then they went to the "option".

I wouldn't mind AF command shaped wing patches on the right pocket, squadron on left. Over the pocket, go for optionals (schools, ES, etc.). I think that there ought to be at least a unit patch. It shows unit pride. It also makes it easier to dig up the CO of someone who is being a problem child at multi unit events.

I like that idea.... A lot actually. And yeah, unit patches are important.   Unfortunately that wouldn't solve our super colorful appearance.

[DBlair]

Considering that we no longer have to wear our Wing patch, are we allowed to put an optional patch (such as NCSA patches) there? I heard that this is being done in some Wings, but haven't found any info about it.

[O-Rex]

Considering that we no longer have to wear our Wing patch, are we allowed to put an optional patch (such as NCSA patches) there? I heard that this is being done in some Wings, but haven't found any info about it.

Dan,

Stay tuned for that one: it's one thing to remove a patch that was made optional by NHQ a couple of years ago, it's another thing to change the location of currently authorized patches per 39-1 (and the dozen or so ICL's.)

Florida Wing is currently using a NASA-looking seal on correspondence which looks quite nice- I'd like to see it as a 'optional' right-shoulder patch for flightsuits.

The 'alligator' had it's time and purpose: it was designed by Zack Mosley of "Smiling Jack" fame in an era where squadron patches and aircraft nose art was based on cartoons (or scantily-clad women, but let's not even go there!)

The story I heard was that someone made a proposal to use the old simple CAP WWII era patch with the tri-blade triangle on a blue background, and put an arc above it that read "Florida" and that was misinterpreted as it went up the chain. 

There's an updated version of the Gator patch that was never approved: it's a bit more menacing looking (looks more like the croc from Disney's 'Peter Pan') and sits curled around a first aid case.

B/t/w, the National Capital Wing design isn't bad, but the patch shape makes it look like it came from a Police Dept.

Thing is, now the American Flag Patch on the left side looks even more out of place. . . .

I'm just wondering if distinctive colored ballcaps will go away when we transition to the ABU (like the Air Force did.)  Personally, I hope not: I've never been a big fan of the BDU "patrol cap."   

[JoeTomasone]

Considering that we no longer have to wear our Wing patch, are we allowed to put an optional patch (such as NCSA patches) there? I heard that this is being done in some Wings, but haven't found any info about it.

Dan,

Stay tuned for that one:

Stay tuned no longer:

3. As a result of National Board action, certain school/activity patches may be worn on the left shoulder. The following patches are approved for wear ½" below the left shoulder seam:



a. National Emergency Service Academy

b. National Flight Academy

c. Cadet Officer School

d. National Honor Guard Academy

e. Hawk Mountain Ranger School

f. Blue Beret

g. Air Force Space Command Familiarization Course

h. Pararescue Orientation Course

[Strick]

 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:   Thank You Colonel

[Stonewall]

There's an updated version of the Gator patch that was never approved: it's a bit more menacing looking (looks more like the croc from Disney's 'Peter Pan') and sits curled around a first aid case.

Thing is, now the American Flag Patch on the left side looks even more out of place. . . .

You mean right side.  Right?

[Stonewall]

Why is it that most cadets I meet seem to want more patches?  What is the mentality of this?  They'll try to argue for all the "right" reasons like heritage, looking like a team, or pride, but I know exactly why. 

Just like WIWAC and I felt like more was better.  Other than aviation badges, we didn't have GTM, IC, EMT, etc badges.  I wore:  ES (w/Cessna), Model Rocketry and First Responder/EMT patch on the front of my uniform.  Not to mention, of course, the wing patch.  I probably would have worn the American Flag too if it had been allowed.  In fact, as a young foolish (eager) cadet I thought it would have been cool to wear a "combat patch" on the right side.  i.e., you participated on a REDCAP (real SAR mission with a "FIND"), you could wear your wing patch on the right side and keep it even if you moved to a different wing.  I would have moved to GAWG just to have a FLWG "combat patch".

Why?  Because I was immature and thought that more was better.  Now, I'm grown up.  I think the opposite.  My cadet commander wants to wear as many patches as possible. 

[Eclipse]

Considering that we no longer have to wear our Wing patch, are we allowed to put an optional patch (such as NCSA patches) there? I heard that this is being done in some Wings, but haven't found any info about it.

Dan,

Stay tuned for that one:

Stay tuned no longer:

3. As a result of National Board action, certain school/activity patches may be worn on the left shoulder. The following patches are approved for wear ½" below the left shoulder seam:



a. National Emergency Service Academy

b. National Flight Academy

c. Cadet Officer School

d. National Honor Guard Academy

e. Hawk Mountain Ranger School

f. Blue Beret

g. Air Force Space Command Familiarization Course

h. Pararescue Orientation Course

Would this be in addition to, or as a choice versus the left pocket?  Because if its a choice, they just made things worse by adding another patch to the uniform.   

[alamrcn]

There's an updated version of the Gator patch that was never approved: it's a bit more menacing looking (looks more like the croc from Disney's 'Peter Pan') and sits curled around a first aid case.

When it was desided not to be used as a wing patch, for an unknown reason, a now disbanded squadron picked it up part of the design...

This one MIGHT have been from later Zack Mosley art just like the first one, but I haven't confirmed that.

Does anyone have the official change letter from the Florida Wing Commander? Not an e-mail, but a PDF or similar document? I'd like a copy, if a link can be posted or one can be e-mailed.

[Rob Sherlin]

 I could be wrong, but I thought Florida used the patch that looks like the " HQ seal" (the eagle above the shield with a prop in the triangle...etc..) which I thought was totally cool and very proffessional looking...The whole "gator" thing is new to me (but, then again, I'm pretty new and don't know to much about FL wing. I would kind of like to see everyone with that patch (the seal with the name of the state above, like it is), and squadron patches worn on the right pocket (due to current revises to uniforms, this would only apply to BDU's)

[JoeTomasone]

Would this be in addition to, or as a choice versus the left pocket?  Because if its a choice, they just made things worse by adding another patch to the uniform.   

What I posted is what I know.   I guess someone should read the minutes of the NB; my interest in this goes only so far. 

[JoeTomasone]

Does anyone have the official change letter from the Florida Wing Commander? Not an e-mail, but a PDF or similar document? I'd like a copy, if a link can be posted or one can be e-mailed.

Doesn't appear to be on the Wing site, but I expect it may take a day or two.

[Stonewall]

I wonder how much it cost FLWG members to convert from the Gator patch to the current one that is no longer required.

Vanguard sells...
- Wing patches for $1.95
- NSCA patches for $2.00
- Reverse American flag for $4.00  <---just checked Scam Vanguard, that's outrageous!

Add in S&H and what some people pay to have their patches sewn on, you're looking at up to $15.00 just in patches, not insignia and nametapes.  And that's just one uniform.

[Rob Sherlin]

 In joining CAP, which is supposed to be "non-profit", and we have to buy our own stuff. ...The stuff we have to get is VERY expensive through our approved vendors!!! Anyone have to buy a CAP binder lately? I think it was like $36.00!...FOR A NOTEBOOK!...What are new patches going to cost?

[RogueLeader]

In joining CAP, which is supposed to be "non-profit", and we have to buy our own stuff. ...The stuff we have to get is VERY expensive through our approved vendors!!! Anyone have to buy a CAP binder lately? I think it was like $36.00!...FOR A NOTEBOOK!...What are new patches going to cost?

Just because CAP is Non-profit, that doesn't mean that the vendor isn't.  Let me know when CAP turns a profit, I want a cut.

[davidsinn]

In joining CAP, which is supposed to be "non-profit", and we have to buy our own stuff. ...The stuff we have to get is VERY expensive through our approved vendors!!! Anyone have to buy a CAP binder lately? I think it was like $36.00!...FOR A NOTEBOOK!...What are new patches going to cost?

Just because CAP is Non-profit, that doesn't mean that the vendor isn't.  Let me know when CAP turns a profit, I want a cut.

They get money from vanguard on every CAP item sold. That's why the C&D letters fly everywhere.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

There's an updated version of the Gator patch that was never approved: it's a bit more menacing looking (looks more like the croc from Disney's 'Peter Pan') and sits curled around a first aid case.

Thank God it wasn't approved. The last thing I'd want is a pissed-off looking alligator wrapped around a first-aid box I needed. Or, if it was so protective of that gear that I couldn't use it if I needed it. Besides that, the type's all skewed and the red border's too thick.

The original design was just fine. Over the years, the embroiders destroyed it. They probably only had the previous-generation patch to look at, not the original emblem.

I'm thinking now I'll redraw and clean up the original emblem and put it on a shield, if for no other reason to entertain CAPTalkers. (I did Ohio Wing's in a shield while I was there, to show it could be done.) Of course, I'll have to do it between feedings of our new baby, so it might take a while.

[Stonewall]

Of course, I'll have to do it between feedings of our new baby, so it might take a while.

Congrats, brother.  Welcome to my world!    8 month old and a 2 1/2 year old. 

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Of course, I'll have to do it between feedings of our new baby, so it might take a while.

Congrats, brother.  Welcome to my world!    8 month old and a 2 1/2 year old. 

Thanks! Not quite six weeks for our little girl.

[O-Rex]

Does anyone have the official change letter from the Florida Wing Commander? Not an e-mail, but a PDF or similar document? I'd like a copy, if a link can be posted or one can be e-mailed.

Doesn't appear to be on the Wing site, but I expect it may take a day or two.

Can someone cut & paste the announcement?

[O-Rex]

Thing is, now the American Flag Patch on the left side looks even more out of place. . . .

You mean right side.  Right?

Yeah.

Wishful thinking?

You can get 2 X 3 left-shoulder American Flag patches at Wal-mart for two bucks. . .

[alamrcn]

I would kind of like to see everyone with that patch (the seal with the name of the state above, like it is)

Tony, is that you?!!!   
That's exactly who had that global-organizational idea.

The original Zack Mosley aligator patch was officially authorized on October 14, 1953. However, there was no doubt earlier usage with hand-sewn patches and maybe even painted canvas or leather patches.

I've been trying for awhile to nail down dates for the START of use of the current "seal" patch, and the PHASE OUT of the old gator patch. Wish I had been more vigilant when it happened... sometime back around '97-ish maybe?

[JoeTomasone]

Can someone cut & paste the announcement?

I was about to, but then noticed that it was marked FOUO.   

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Can someone cut & paste the announcement?

I was about to, but then noticed that it was marked FOUO.   

Side note: Why does "FOUO" sound like pig latin?

[Hookedonlemons]

I'd be in favor for moving the squadron patch up to the now patchless arm that way we can keep the acitivities patches on the chest.
I wonder what events lead up to this...

[alamrcn]

/\ that's fine, but stay on topic please - a certain mod would love to kill another patch thread...

I did just find this tid bit all of a sudden, and in my own archives no less!
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library/minutes/nec0011.pdf

d. ITEM: Florida Wing Patch
GEN BOBICK briefed that the Florida Wing requested to change its patch to the CAP shield with the word Florida surrounding it. He reminded that approval authority for changing a wing patch rests with the region commander—not the NEC.

Curious... Do you think that Florida Wing, and later Southeast Region, should have had the NEC's permission (or at least a thumbs up) to use the corporate seal for the shoulder patch?

[JoeTomasone]

Curious... Do you think that Florida Wing, and later Southeast Region, should have had the NEC's permission (or at least a thumbs up) to use the corporate seal for the shoulder patch?

It is required IAW CAPR 900-2, so presumably they got it.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

I've heard that the seal-with-tab Florida Wing emblem was a prototype -- and, if successful, the "new" emblem would be used in every wing (with a different tab, of course).

Word is that this was the brainchild of HWSRN.

My beef: Why should we duplicate, and/or reinvent the wheel? Florida already had an emblem, which was slowly becoming a green blob on a gold circle, thanks to several reproductions, each one a close representation of the last. The gator, if it's cleaned up, would be just fine. So would a more accurate Wright Flyer in Ohio, and so would a few others. It might also negate the impulse of someone to reinvent the wheel (such as the Pennsylvania Wing shield, which apes an American flag and an airplane).

[JohnKachenmeister]

There's an updated version of the Gator patch that was never approved: it's a bit more menacing looking (looks more like the croc from Disney's 'Peter Pan') and sits curled around a first aid case.

Thing is, now the American Flag Patch on the left side looks even more out of place. . . .

You mean right side.  Right?

Menacing?  Please!  The gator looks like he's taking a dump!   

[Gunner C]

 

Someone look to see if there's an alarm clock in there. 

[Cecil DP]

That looks like the gator that was guarding the 2nd green at NAS Jax last week-sans the first aid kit.

[flyguy06]

Just curious why do you hate wearing the wing patch on BDU's? But you dont mind wearing all those other colorful patches?

[Hookedonlemons]

Just curious why do you hate wearing the wing patch on BDU's? But you dont mind wearing all those other colorful patches?

I would also like to hear that answer aswell...

[Hawk200]

I would kind of like to see everyone with that patch (the seal with the name of the state above, like it is

I wouldn't. If we had to absolutely have a patch on the left arm, why not keep it simple with the membership in mind, and go with the original CAP emblem (circle, triangle tri-prop). Maybe use the one with "U.S." on it. Don't use the the "Civil Air Patrol" tab arc on the top, it's already elsewhere on the uniform. The redundancy department can keep their own counsel, we don't need it.

As for each state having a tab, why? HWSRN was right on one thing, we did have 52 separate Civil Air Patrols. The same patch would be worn by every member of our organization. Got no problem with squadron patches, most of them had the full unit ID on it anyway. You can find out where someone is from by looking it up. Or even easier, ask them.

There's way too much of "Well back in XX Wing...". That attitude should go away. I'm kind of glad to hear that Florida has rescinded their "everyone wears the optional patch" policy. That's a change I can get behind.

[PHall]

Just curious why do you hate wearing the wing patch on BDU's? But you dont mind wearing all those other colorful patches?

Well, if we were the Civil ARMY Patrol, then wearing the flag and the wing patch on the shoulder would look "right".
But we're the Civil Air Patrol and we are the Auxiliary of the Air Force. And the Air Force does not wear ANY insignia on their shoulders with the exception of the flag in certain specified overseas areas.

[Hawk200]

And the Air Force does not wear ANY insignia on their shoulders with the exception of the flag in certain specified overseas areas.

Not even sure if they do that anymore either. Haven't seen any flags on ABU's here. Of course, the Air Force guys wearing ACU's are, but that's not Air Force uniform.

[Stonewall]

I was at Moody and saw every member from the 820th Security Forces Group with flags on their ABUs.

[Stonewall]

Just curious why do you hate wearing the wing patch on BDU's? But you dont mind wearing all those other colorful patches?

I would also like to hear that answer aswell...

First, as I posted in the first couple of replies I don't hate wing patches.

But here are four reasons why I don't care for them:

1) The myriad of shapes/sizes/colors represented in wing patches
2) A general desire to de-clutter uniforms as much as possible
3) The fact the wing patch location/Flag patch is more an Army than Air Force style of patch placement (and I'm a former Army guy)
4) Cost.  While a single wing patch doesn't cost but $2.00, many cadets (and some seniors) are inclined to max out on patches.  Which can go from $2.00 to $10.00, plus the cost of shipping and having them sewn on, sometimes incorrectly.

The more options we have, the more opportunities we have to look bad.  I have seen a lot of screwed up sewing jobs, mis-measurement, mis-aligned, wrong location and incorrect patches worn in 22 years of CAP.  If we didn't have patches, we wouldn't have a problem.  Plus, we'd save on tens of thousands of dollars every year.

I am a less is more kind of guy when it comes to uniforms.

I commanded a squadron where I got rid of the squadron patch and encouraged cadets not to wear first aid patches, model rocketry, ES, or even NCSA patches on their BDUs.  The appearance of that squadron standing in formation was striking.  It truly made us all look uniform.  Extremely professional in nature and an overall military look.  One of the best sites of 20 members standing in formation at one time. 

That's why.  Clutter does not equal high speed.  Patches does not equal "coolness".  Flag patches do not make you patriotic.  One team.  One mission.  One uniform.

[Hawk200]

I was at Moody and saw every member from the 820th Security Forces Group with flags on their ABUs.

Really? Haven't seen a single person wearing one on ABU's here. Wonder why? It's a little wierd.

Anyway, were they wearing them on the correct shoulder?

[Stonewall]

I honestly don't remember, it was a year ago.  In fact, now that I think about it, some had flags while others had sage green velcro where the flags would go. 

I want to say it was on the right shoulder because as AF cops, they would wear the SF brassard on theor left shoulder if pulling security duty overseas.

Yes, right shoulder.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I was at Moody and saw every member from the 820th Security Forces Group with flags on their ABUs.

Really? Haven't seen a single person wearing one on ABU's here. Wonder why? It's a little wierd.

Anyway, were they wearing them on the correct shoulder?

I think that the AF leaves the decision on flags up to either the MAJCOM or the base commander in CONUS.  Overseas it is somewhat important for folks to know what country we are from.

[O-Rex]

I was at Moody and saw every member from the 820th Security Forces Group with flags on their ABUs.

Really? Haven't seen a single person wearing one on ABU's here. Wonder why? It's a little wierd.

Anyway, were they wearing them on the correct shoulder?

I think that the AF leaves the decision on flags up to either the MAJCOM or the base commander in CONUS.  Overseas it is somewhat important for folks to know what country we are from.

Yes, somewhat. . . .

Same applies here: we should keep our flags on, lest someone think of us as one of those Brazilian CAP members......

b/t/w, can the 'black vans' make it to South America? 

(thought I'd lend some levity, since the topic kind of derailed. . . )

[BuckeyeDEJ]

I would kind of like to see everyone with that patch (the seal with the name of the state above, like it is

I wouldn't. If we had to absolutely have a patch on the left arm, why not keep it simple with the membership in mind, and go with the original CAP emblem (circle, triangle tri-prop). Maybe use the one with "U.S." on it. Don't use the the "Civil Air Patrol" tab arc on the top, it's already elsewhere on the uniform. The redundancy department can keep their own counsel, we don't need it.

As for each state having a tab, why? HWSRN was right on one thing, we did have 52 separate Civil Air Patrols. The same patch would be worn by every member of our organization. Got no problem with squadron patches, most of them had the full unit ID on it anyway. You can find out where someone is from by looking it up. Or even easier, ask them.

There's way too much of "Well back in XX Wing...". That attitude should go away. I'm kind of glad to hear that Florida has rescinded their "everyone wears the optional patch" policy. That's a change I can get behind.

You mean the blue "Civil Air Patrol" tape across the chest didn't say "Civil Air Patrol" enough for us? It's the same logic that puts the prop-and-triangle on every squadron, wing and region patch. You're already in CAP, and you're identified as such, so... DUH.

[biomed441]

Just curious why do you hate wearing the wing patch on BDU's? But you dont mind wearing all those other colorful patches?

I would also like to hear that answer aswell...

First, as I posted in the first couple of replies I don't hate wing patches.

But here are four reasons why I don't care for them:

1) The myriad of shapes/sizes/colors represented in wing patches
2) A general desire to de-clutter uniforms as much as possible
3) The fact the wing patch location/Flag patch is more an Army than Air Force style of patch placement (and I'm a former Army guy)
4) Cost.  While a single wing patch doesn't cost but $2.00, many cadets (and some seniors) are inclined to max out on patches.  Which can go from $2.00 to $10.00, plus the cost of shipping and having them sewn on, sometimes incorrectly.

The more options we have, the more opportunities we have to look bad.  I have seen a lot of screwed up sewing jobs, mis-measurement, mis-aligned, wrong location and incorrect patches worn in 22 years of CAP.  If we didn't have patches, we wouldn't have a problem.  Plus, we'd save on tens of thousands of dollars every year.

I am a less is more kind of guy when it comes to uniforms.

I commanded a squadron where I got rid of the squadron patch and encouraged cadets not to wear first aid patches, model rocketry, ES, or even NCSA patches on their BDUs.  The appearance of that squadron standing in formation was striking.  It truly made us all look uniform.  Extremely professional in nature and an overall military look.  One of the best sites of 20 members standing in formation at one time. 

That's why.  Clutter does not equal high speed.  Patches does not equal "coolness".  Flag patches do not make you patriotic.  One team.  One mission.  One uniform.

:clap:

[Hawk200]

I would kind of like to see everyone with that patch (the seal with the name of the state above, like it is

I wouldn't. If we had to absolutely have a patch on the left arm, why not keep it simple with the membership in mind, and go with the original CAP emblem (circle, triangle tri-prop). Maybe use the one with "U.S." on it. Don't use the the "Civil Air Patrol" tab arc on the top, it's already elsewhere on the uniform. The redundancy department can keep their own counsel, we don't need it.

As for each state having a tab, why? HWSRN was right on one thing, we did have 52 separate Civil Air Patrols. The same patch would be worn by every member of our organization. Got no problem with squadron patches, most of them had the full unit ID on it anyway. You can find out where someone is from by looking it up. Or even easier, ask them.

There's way too much of "Well back in XX Wing...". That attitude should go away. I'm kind of glad to hear that Florida has rescinded their "everyone wears the optional patch" policy. That's a change I can get behind.

You mean the blue "Civil Air Patrol" tape across the chest didn't say "Civil Air Patrol" enough for us? It's the same logic that puts the prop-and-triangle on every squadron, wing and region patch. You're already in CAP, and you're identified as such, so... DUH.

Not sure I get the point.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Hawk:

I think he means that use of the Prop-and-Triangle, along with the "Civil Air Patrol" across your chest, AND the same symbol incorporated into the unit patch would tend to be a bit of "CAP Overkill."  After all, how many times and on how many body surfaces do we need to post it?

[Hawk200]

Hawk:

I think he means that use of the Prop-and-Triangle, along with the "Civil Air Patrol" across your chest, AND the same symbol incorporated into the unit patch would tend to be a bit of "CAP Overkill."  After all, how many times and on how many body surfaces do we need to post it?

Hmmm....

I would advocate the use of the circle/triangle/prop with US on it as a shoulder patch. For unit patches, I've always considered it unimaginative to incorporate it. Unit patches should be distinct to the unit, show it's locale or what they consider their primary mission.

We have a CAP tape, no reason to use the emblem with CAP spelled out on it. It goes back to our beginnings, if we absolutely had to have a shoulder patch, I think the first original would be most fitting.

Personally, I'd prefer no shoulder patches at all. It was a carryoever that never really got addressed. Seems like we ought to address it.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I agree with you, Hawk.  First, there are too many patches already, and the USAF no longer wears patches on the shoulders.  That's a throwback to when we were an auxiliary of the Army Air Corps.

We are real slow to change with the times.  We still have plastic-encased insignia, and we still use leather name badges on our flight suits.

Which, I guess, fits, since we still fly airplanes with propellers.

[MIKE]

Looks like this one is done.