Recruiting Ground Team Members

[Murph]

Do you have a link to this "Photo Archive"? I just skimmed through the "Photo Gallery" on capchannel and it's not in there.

Murph

[CrewDog]

I'm getting in late on this thread, but just a few observations:  The photo was never on NHQ site, cap235629 knows this, which is why he was quick to reply, (paraphrasing) " that is what happwens when you try and do something good."  When people are confronted with the truth which does not jibe with their version of events this is what they do.  It usually takes an hour or two under bright lights or perhaps waterboarding.  I'm impressed by the interrogation skills of these posters.
This could be such a non issue if it were not for the continued claim of the where the photo came from.  I'm calling bovine escrement.

[Short Field]

The source of the photo could make a difference in being able to use.  However, I check Knowledgebase to see what they said about use of photos. This applies to photo releases - not to the copyright issue.  Knowledgebase referenced the article that I took this out of:

This is why CAP regulations do not
require photo releases, either for senior
members or cadets. The prevailing
policy is that members participate in
CAP activities of their own volition, in
public settings, and any photos taken
of them are intended only to promote
the organization and its opportunities
for volunteerism -- not for profit.

[Major Carrales]

Wow...a CAP Officer makes an informative document for the benefit of CAP Ground Teams using a photo found at a National site and you people swarm in like hawks. :clap: Bravo CAPTALKERS...Bravo indeed.

There are so many wonder why "new ideas" never make it to the mainstream, this may be why.  Next time may I suggest you people do this in PM where it belongs.

[arajca]

Except for the use of a picture which the designer did not have approval/authorization to use, the comments have been positive, with a couple of suggestions for improvement.

Personally, I wouldn't use a photo off any CAP website. I'd take some time and get a few squared-away members together and stage an appropriate shot. And take lots of pictures for different angles. Get faces. You never know, someone may see the poster and recognize someone in it which would provide a personal interest.

[Rotorhead]

As I often tell my children, once it hits the internet, there is nothing private.

You ought to stop telling them that before they end up in a lawsuit.

Copyright law absolutely applies to the internet. All it takes is the image owner deciding to sue, and you're in trouble.

[Rotorhead]

Remind me to confiscate all cameras at any CAP activity so as not to offend anyone if their likeness was displayed without forwarding of royalty checks.

This attitude doesn't help.

You made a mistake. Acting passive-agressive doesn't change that.

As the Thunderbirds would say, "Fix it for next time."

ETA: Sorry, I missed your apology post when I wrote this.

[PWK-GT]

Wow...a CAP Officer makes an informative document for the benefit of CAP Ground Teams using a photo found at a National site and you people swarm in like hawks. :clap: Bravo CAPTALKERS...Bravo indeed.

There are so many wonder why "new ideas" never make it to the mainstream, this may be why.  Next time may I suggest you people do this in PM where it belongs.

I appreciate the opinion sir, but this was not found at NHQ. And my point of common courtesy still stands. As a fellow PAO, would you condone this behavior? I think not....

The pic was not at NHQ.......not now, and not ever. End of story. I challenge the original poster to provide a link there, but as Murph already mentioned (after searching the entire archive)...it's not.

This is not an issue of copyrights or royalties. This is a basic core values issue, the issue of integrity. This attitude from the original poster of "the end justifies the means" is a load of bubkus.

As for keeping this to PM, it did go that route for a bit...but then new posters keep adding to it.

Maybe this will make an interesting Character Development segment for our cadets soon.

[Major Carrales]

Wow...a CAP Officer makes an informative document for the benefit of CAP Ground Teams using a photo found at a National site and you people swarm in like hawks. :clap: Bravo CAPTALKERS...Bravo indeed.

There are so many wonder why "new ideas" never make it to the mainstream, this may be why.  Next time may I suggest you people do this in PM where it belongs.

I appreciate the opinion sir, but this was not found at NHQ. And my point of common courtesy still stands. As a fellow PAO, would you condone this behavior? I think not....

The pic was not at NHQ.......not now, and not ever. End of story. I challenge the original poster to provide a link there, but as Murph already mentioned (after searching the entire archive)...it's not.

This is not an issue of copyrights or royalties. This is a basic core values issue, the issue of integrity. This attitude from the original poster of "the end justifies the means" is a load of bubkus.

As for keeping this to PM, it did go that route for a bit...but then new posters keep adding to it.

Maybe this will make an interesting Character Development segment for our cadets soon.

My issue is not one of "this photo was taken from where," but rather how these matters get hammered out here infront of the world by CAPTALK CAP OFFICERS.  As to your point, I agree.  I try to use only photos I have taken with my camera when publishing them in my newsletters.  Other images I have to get the permission of those that submitted them or, they are taken from sources displayed as "public domain" (such as clip art, National CAP databases or from open statements pretaining to other sources.

Back to the point...

The ideal way would have been to point this out to the original threadster via PM.  The Original threadster would then take it down or fess up to the error if that had been too late (after a while one cannot edir/delete posts).  Had this failed then the Moderators should be contacted citing that a post had violated/might possibly have violated copyright issues.  Moderators would then lock or subdue the post.

Instead, the issue was slathered all over the internet with coy remarks and incredulous replies.

That is when I "throw the flag" and call for civility.

[Rotorhead]

Wow...a CAP Officer makes an informative document for the benefit of CAP Ground Teams using a photo found at a National site and you people swarm in like hawks. :clap: Bravo CAPTALKERS...Bravo indeed.

There are so many wonder why "new ideas" never make it to the mainstream, this may be why.  Next time may I suggest you people do this in PM where it belongs.

I appreciate the opinion sir, but this was not found at NHQ. And my point of common courtesy still stands. As a fellow PAO, would you condone this behavior? I think not....

The pic was not at NHQ.......not now, and not ever. End of story. I challenge the original poster to provide a link there, but as Murph already mentioned (after searching the entire archive)...it's not.

This is not an issue of copyrights or royalties. This is a basic core values issue, the issue of integrity. This attitude from the original poster of "the end justifies the means" is a load of bubkus.

As for keeping this to PM, it did go that route for a bit...but then new posters keep adding to it.

Maybe this will make an interesting Character Development segment for our cadets soon.

My issue is not one of "this photo was taken from where," but rather how these matters get hammered out here infront of the world by CAPTALK CAP OFFICERS.  

Isn't that the point of bringing it up on a public bulletin board? To hash it out?

[Major Carrales]

Wow...a CAP Officer makes an informative document for the benefit of CAP Ground Teams using a photo found at a National site and you people swarm in like hawks. :clap: Bravo CAPTALKERS...Bravo indeed.

There are so many wonder why "new ideas" never make it to the mainstream, this may be why.  Next time may I suggest you people do this in PM where it belongs.

I appreciate the opinion sir, but this was not found at NHQ. And my point of common courtesy still stands. As a fellow PAO, would you condone this behavior? I think not....

The pic was not at NHQ.......not now, and not ever. End of story. I challenge the original poster to provide a link there, but as Murph already mentioned (after searching the entire archive)...it's not.

This is not an issue of copyrights or royalties. This is a basic core values issue, the issue of integrity. This attitude from the original poster of "the end justifies the means" is a load of bubkus.

As for keeping this to PM, it did go that route for a bit...but then new posters keep adding to it.

Maybe this will make an interesting Character Development segment for our cadets soon.

My issue is not one of "this photo was taken from where," but rather how these matters get hammered out here infront of the world by CAPTALK CAP OFFICERS.  

Isn't that the point of bringing it up on a public bulletin board? To hash it out?

We are not a place where we bash our newest members in public.  I have often brought my ideas and concepts to CAPTALK and, before that, the Civil Air Portal.  I have benefited by the discussion.  However, when an idea might be in need of a true "hammering," many of my long time connections/friends on CAPTALK have taken the comments, suggestions and indignation to Private Message.  We should temper our ideas here, but being mean because one feels that are a more "official" CAP Officer amounts to "throwing one's weight around.

Only on a few threads, like uniform photo threads, has it devolved.

This occasion a very motivated CAP recruiter brought his wares to CAPTALK for suggestions.  The positive and constructive criticism should be posts...faux pas and policy violation should be addressed in private for correction with an after the fact "my bad" from the one in question.

Surely you don't feel "bashing a fellow officer" for an infraction in a public forum which will be archived along time is better than the system I mentioned? 

[Eclipse]

It should be pointed out that no one told him to stop using the photo, I / we were only making the point that recruiting posters should feature your own people and capabilities, and if you're going to pull a photo off someone else's website, the courtesy of actually asking if you can use it is expected.

Like everything else here, if you choose to post your warez, you take the risk of the response, and hanging out the "no good deed goes unpunished banner" when people have issues won't buy you any more points.

This is the same argument we make with our cadets about YouTube, Filesharing, and stealing music.  Just because its easy, doesn't make it right.

And as I offered earlier, albeit in a less than straightforward way, if he's interested, we'd be happy to assist in making a new flyer.  Beyond that, I agree we should let this lay.

[Rotorhead]

Surely you don't feel "bashing a fellow officer" for an infraction in a public forum which will be archived along time is better than the system I mentioned? 

Point taken.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Where did they find those neat orange cargo vests?

[Eclipse]

Where did they find those neat orange cargo vests?

Depends which one you mean, there at least three different vests in that photo - a TAC vest with oranage accents added, not sure on the center one, and the SARMed vests I'm always talking up.  They've become quite popular up in these parts because they are cheap, durable, and fit the need for both (most) GT work, UDF, and other duties like flight line, Safety, etc.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=4589.msg90545#msg90545

This guy's always got them:  http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZpatchking2002