Unit Citation ribbon wear finally clarified!

[Eclipse]

You know there's also the option of not wearing all your military ribbons on your CAP uniform, especially if its hard to find or doesn't fit right.

I'm getting to the point where I'm thinking about short-stacking mine, and all I have is what you see below.

[lordmonar]

And here is a rack I found online with two different unit awards mixed in with the AF ribbons.

Actually there are three.

The Joint Meritours Unit (top one with a gold frame), AF Meritorious Unit, and the AF Outstanding Unit awards.

The bottom one with a gold frame is the AF Expeditionary Service Ribbon with a gold frame to denote a depoyment to a combat zone.

[Jimbo]

CAP/CC Memo (PDF)

Unit Citation Award. The Unit Citation Award ribbon may only be worn by members assigned to the unit during any portion of the period of time shown in the National Headquarters Personnel Action announcing the award. Individuals who join the unit at a later date are not authorized to wear the Unit Citation Ribbon.

It's about time someone put the kibosh on the idea of joining a unit and instantly wearing x citations.

So where is the link to all of the published NHQ personnel actions so we can verify and see for what dates units got them from? 

[IceNine]

Doesn't exist. 

[Jimbo]

Doesn't exist. 

My point exactly...This would be a fairly simlpple way for NHQ to track it and have a database.  That is how unit awards are captured for the Air Force.  Just go to the personnel center website, and you can search for units and it will show you the dates...

[IceNine]

The issue is that in this organization of 60,000+ there are 3-4 people at NHQ that are actually tracking/entering data into e-services.

Trying to add the burden of tracking awards from all levels (those being awarded from now group through NHQ) amounts to at the very least 1-2 more personnel at NHQ.  Which equates to $60,000+/- a year.

The better option IMHO would be as we've discussed here on several occasions would be to put that money towards a field managed system where awards (both PD, and achievement) are input and managed through e-services.  We already have the system in place its a matter of adjusting the system to allow the expansion that this would require.

[Jimbo]

Nuts and bolts... both are viable solutions, and better off than the current.   

Start the out of the box thinking, they could add some volunteers on national staff, OR modify eServices in a quasi-way like you suggested, where the nominating agency enters the award and scope along with dates, and they are simply sent to the approver.  The NHQ function would just to have an automatic report generator capability... OR some other idea that I am too tired to think about right now

[ThorntonOL]

I've tracked mine down useing all my old CAP NEWS newspapers and currently allowed to wear the bar plus 1 star for the ones that Northeast Region and NY Wing recieved around 2002.
I think I have copies of all the newsletters from Sept or Oct of 2000 until our last National commander changed the format. Not sure have to take inventory again of my stuff.

[sandman]

Doesn't exist. 

My point exactly...This would be a fairly simlpple way for NHQ to track it and have a database.  That is how unit awards are captured for the Air Force.  Just go to the personnel center website, and you can search for units and it will show you the dates...

Just as an example from the other services:

Navy Department Awards Web Service (NDAWS)
https://awards.navy.mil/awards/webbas01.nsf/(vwWebPage)/home.htm?OpenDocument

US Army
https://www.hrc.army.mil/site/active/tagd/awards/index.htm

Perhaps CAP web designers could add a similar link?

[rdmcii]

For what it's worth, in my long service in Civil Air Patrol this is the Fourth change in the regulations in the wear, no wear unit citation. Am glad to see a direct clarification on what is desired, because I can see why there is confusion.

Until the next change,
Cheers,

[Eclipse]

For what it's worth, in my long service in Civil Air Patrol this is the Fourth change in the regulations in the wear, no wear unit citation. Am glad to see a direct clarification on what is desired, because I can see why there is confusion.

I'm not sure what you mean by wear / no wear. No one's ever been told not to wear a CA they earned.

This is simply a clarification of what to most was common sense that the unit citation is awarded to a specific group of people, not a perpetual award for transient unit members.

[rdmcii]

Sorry for my short hand - when I joined it was in the 39-3 that you could wear the Unit Citaion if you earned it OR during your tenure in a unit that had received it.

Then they changed it to only if you earned it

then they brought back the 'also only while in unit if you have not earned it" stuff (I hope you know what I mean)

this last round they rather ambigiously dropped it until the latest clarification

Now that their room for arguement, I see this as the first step toward reversing the whole thing. That is, now that those that wear it and have not earned it have no room to argue that it is OK, they will more forcefully lobby to change the regs again (number 5)

Just my observation

(BTW, I have 5, all earned)

[Hawk200]

Sorry for my short hand - when I joined it was in the 39-3 that you could wear the Unit Citaion if you earned it OR during your tenure in a unit that had received it.

I know that's how the Army does it, Air Force only if you were in the unit for the time period mentioned in the citation.

To be blunt about it, people that weren't there for the period cited don't deserve it. They didn't contribute to the unit's mission at the time of the citation, so as far as I'm concerned they're wearing something they haven't earned (or more accurately contributed to the unit earning).

I think the same thing of the Army unit citation, I don't feel right about wearing something when I didn't contribute to unit for that time period. Nice thing about the Army Guard, noone gives anyone any hassle if they don't wear it for that reason.

[TeamBronx]

The "old way" of determining who wore the unit citation always made sense to me.  The unit was recognized by the streamer and ribbon.  New cadet basics when they first wore the uniform just had the one ribbon and it made them seem to be a part of the organization.  I know that when I joined in 1967 at fifteen, it was a mark of being accepted.  The cadet recruits needed to know what the unit citations were for.  They were told how each of the citations was earned and they needed to know this information.  This heritage was their heritage

I've taken my six (earned while a unit member) citations with me wherever I went.  After transferring I never wore any that were earned by my former units when I was not a member.

Regulations and policies change and we should follow them.  I just think that the unit's historical recognition and heritage gets lost in the mix.  If CAP history is a guide, in five, or seven, or ten years, the unit citation rules will change again.

[arajca]

The problem occurs when a member transfers and doesn't take off the unearned UC's. As far as most are concerned (I've had to deal with a couple), they've earned it because they were in that unit - even though it was NOT during the cited period. They do not accept the notion of 'temporary wear' or 'wear while a member of the unit'.

From what I've heard from these members, they don't have a clue about the unit's history or hertiage, they were just told to put the ribbon on.

[Hawk200]

The problem occurs when a member transfers and doesn't take off the unearned UC's. As far as most are concerned (I've had to deal with a couple), they've earned it because they were in that unit - even though it was NOT during the cited period. They do not accept the notion of 'temporary wear' or 'wear while a member of the unit'.

From what I've heard from these members, they don't have a clue about the unit's history or hertiage, they were just told to put the ribbon on.

Now, I'm starting to wonder how many people I've seen with two, three or five of them had them in the same manner. Guess I'll just have to make a hard copy of the ICL and start carrying it with me.

[PHall]

The problem occurs when a member transfers and doesn't take off the unearned UC's. As far as most are concerned (I've had to deal with a couple), they've earned it because they were in that unit - even though it was NOT during the cited period. They do not accept the notion of 'temporary wear' or 'wear while a member of the unit'.

From what I've heard from these members, they don't have a clue about the unit's history or hertiage, they were just told to put the ribbon on.

Now, I'm starting to wonder how many people I've seen with two, three or five of them had them in the same manner. Guess I'll just have to make a hard copy of the ICL and start carrying it with me.

And become the self-appointed "Ribbon Police". Yeah, that will make you a lot of new friends.

[IceNine]

Isn't saying "NO" the primary role of a commander anyway? 

[Eclipse]

Isn't saying "NO" the primary role of a commander anyway? 

Yep.  If we don't do it, who will?

[Hawk200]

And become the self-appointed "Ribbon Police". Yeah, that will make you a lot of new friends.

I'm a Personnel officer, nothing "self appointed" about it. I'm expected to know. And there are far too many people that "self award" too many things. A lot of CAP personnel are very fortunate that they aren't held accountable under Federal law in the same manner that people wearing unearned military awards are held accountable.

It's a matter of policing ourselves. Those with integrity will never have anything to worry about from me. Those just unaware probably won't have a problem with it. The ones that demand the right to wear something they haven't earned aren't trustworthy. What else will they claim that they haven't the right to? Far too much stolen honor in our society. Isn't there an old adage about doing nothing being evil in itself?