Minimum Equipment vs. Uniform

[Eclipse]

FYI in a closet at CAP I saw a bunch of white construction type hardhats with CAP stickers on the front.  No idea how old or if they were ever used for anything.

On the Vanguard (admittedly not the latest word on uniform regulations) site they have an Emergency Services decal, the description for which is:

CAP0830A
EMERGENCY SERVICES DECAL For wear on protective helmets by personnel participating in emergency services missions

That's likely aimed at the helmet liners which can be approved by a Wing or Region CC.

[Gunner C]

FYI in a closet at CAP I saw a bunch of white construction type hardhats with CAP stickers on the front.  No idea how old or if they were ever used for anything.

On the Vanguard (admittedly not the latest word on uniform regulations) site they have an Emergency Services decal, the description for which is:

CAP0830A
EMERGENCY SERVICES DECAL For wear on protective helmets by personnel participating in emergency services missions

That's likely aimed at the helmet liners which can be approved by a Wing or Region CC.

I'm pretty sure the CAP Bookstore catalog said the same thing when I was a cadet, when the use of helmet liners was kinda common.  It is probably a hold-over from those days and Vanguard is too lazy to change it - just did a copy and paste.

Gunner

[teesquared]

 
Vanguard? Lazy? Say it ain't so, Joe!

[RiverAux]

If you're going to start wearing protective helmets in the field (unnecessary in my opinion), please remember that those helmets should have on their inside an expiration date after which they should not be worn due to deterioration.   We just received a briefing on this at my workplace and pretty much all of our helmets need to be tossed or if there was an accident and OSHA found an "expired" helmet had been used, trouble would ensue.....

[JayT]

I had thought of that as well.  However, I would still recommend consulting the wing legal officer about it rather than trying to piece it out yourself (unless you happen to be a lawyer in KY). 

But, on the plus side if they want to consider CAP a rescue squad, according to other parts of the law it looks like you have an option of trying to set up a tax district to support your operations. 

Quite frankly, I'm almost shocked that anyone made a state law so specific about the exact equipment requirements of such groups.  Such things are better left to the discretion of a state agency that can more quickly adapt to equipment innovations. 

This is a classic case of CAP saying "We don't wanna follow the rules other people set!"

From what I remember from the history of the ICS which so many CAP types seem to worship lately, the whole idea was standardization.

If a Incident Commander needed twenty Type Two strike teams, he would bet getting twenty units of similar capacity, which similar training, equipment load outs, etc etc.

In this case, for CAP to be considered a "Rescue Team" under the law, they need to bring that same idea into play (The ICS actually having a place in the real world? Surely you jest!)

So I see nothing wrong with a state mandating it's teams have a certain load out.
If CAP can bring assests to the field equal or better then other teams out there, then we shouldn't even be playing.

[RiverAux]

This is a classic case of CAP saying "We don't wanna follow the rules other people set!"

Where did that come from?   If it is the law, fine CAP should follow it.  However, there is a slight indication that the law was written so as to not to apply to CAP.  I'm certainly not positive of that, which is why I recommended that they consult the Wing Legal Officer for their analysis. 

[JayT]

But why should we be trying to find loopholes out of a good idea?

[RiverAux]

Well, if they wrote the law and specifically exempted CAP from it, then they must have had their reasons.  If they didn't exempt CAP, then we should follow it as best we can. 

However, you should realize that it is not necessarily a good thing if each state starts putting their own specific requirements for SAR teams into law since CAP is a NATIONAL organization and we could end up in a situation where teams from one wing cannot operate in another wing.  The KY law is actually working against the national standardization of team capabilities envisioned under the NIMS system by setting themselves apart. 

In this case, if the KY law does apply to CAP, then it is extremely unlikely that any CAP ground teams from outside KY could ever assist KY Wing in a mission.  How is that a good thing either for CAP, the SAR community, or the Kentuckian lost out in the woods?

[KyCAP]

CAPT Morgan (found here in dark corners) and myself gave a two hour one on one brief to the Adjutant General of Ky per the Wing Commander's request on Friday.

We have another tentative meeting setup for early January with the Brigadier General who is the EM Director for Ky.   We will probably address this issue with him at that time.

The law is written to identify that CAP and other assets in Ky are not "specialized" resources, but it is open that we are "generalized" rescue resources. 

As to the "national" resources statement, I have not had time to research other state's laws that apply to rescue resources in the rest of the US.  The assumption could also be made that the Emergency Managers have "standardized" the load out for "rescue" assets in ALL state laws with the expectations to standardize all resources.   There is such a thing as the EMAC where the whole purpose is standarized interoperability of resources between state agencies.   It's ran from KY and one of my friends is the EMAC manager..

http://www.emacweb.org/?9

It could be that we are "unintentionally" unaware of the far reaching implications of ICS resource typing requirements??

[RiverAux]

Thats some good face time. 

I know that my state has no such similar requirements either in state law or in other policy and I'd be surprised if there were many states out there that have anything as detailed in KY in their laws as far as equipment. 

I haven't seen anything detailed in any of the national NIMS stuff as detailed as this about equipment, but would expect it to be coming at some point. 

[KyCAP]

Yes, GOOD face time..  Nice guy to boot with real interest in CAP... Doesn't hurt he's an AIR FORCE Officer...   

I did some homework.  With NIMS typing docs, The Cave Rescue specifies helmets, but the rest go with "personal protection equipment adequate".     I picked a few states like Oregon and New York state laws.   They "refer" to equipment lists in the their regulatory statutes, but interpreting the "where they are" on their web sites is impossible.   

[rgr84]

Check out paragraph (9)

http://www.lrc.ky.gov/krs/039f00/010.pdf

Search for lost, trapped or missing persons, aircraft, or vehicles, utilizing aircraft, but does not apply to licensed air ambulances, active or reserve military organizations, the National Guard, or the Civil Air Patrol;

[RiverAux]

yeah, we mentioned it before -- that exempts CAP from being considered a specialized rescue squad -- the question remains whether CAP ground teams would be considered a general rescue squad and thereby subject to those laws.  I haven't found an obvious exception for CAP in that which means they either meant for CAP ground teams to be covered or forgot that we had them.   

[KyCAP]

Yep, agreed.  It looks to peel back only one layer.