SPOT transmitter saves 2 CAWG members

[calguy]

California was activated this morning for two lost CAP members in the California desert near the Colorado River.  A California Group 7 aircraft was able to locate the two hikers within minutes of arriving in their CAP aircraft after the SPOT transmitter was able to provide their Lat/long.  Still waiting for additional details on their condiion. 

[_]

Do we know yet if they were lost people who happened to be members of CAP or they were acting in some CAP capacity and became lost?

[KyCAP]

Currently, does the SPOT manufacturer send alerts to AFRCC or did the mission come from the CA Emergency Management to CAP?   Glad it worked for those folks!  Just trying to see what the tasking workflow looks like.. if anyone knows here.

[isuhawkeye]

My understanding is that SPOT does not transmit information directly to AFRCC

[calguy]

The two CAWG staff members were out in the desert 4 wheeling when they failed to return home.  They sent an emergency spot message and the mission was opened.  The pages don't show it was an AFRCC mission but a State mission.  I will go into WMIRS and see if I can find more details.  The story seems that they either were stuck, lost or crashed.

[sardak]

Alerts from the "911" button on a SPOT beacon go to the GEOS International Emergency Response Center in Houston, TX.  The personnel there notify the closest PSAP (public safety access point, e.g 911 in the US) to the GPS coordinates.  The PSAP follows its procedures.  The response center also contacts the emergency contacts listed with SPOT registration.

The alerting and initial response processes for SPOT beacons and Sarsat alerts are completely different.

Mike

[notaNCO forever]

 Talk about a horrible place to get lost when I lived their it good get up to 120 F during the day. It's a good thing they had the SPOT transmitter.

[DNall]

I just wanted to mention we used those during the Ike mission. Had a couple dozen. Sent each GT & aircrew out with one. Then had a laptop in ground ops and another in air that showed their teams. There was still some technical issues, but it was pretty close to a blue force tracker concept. I liked it a lot, especially when we lost comms because a highbird was changing shifts or the team was way out.

[wingnut55]

Ok lets get this story straight NONE OF THIS IS TRUE

The guy was with his wife exploring the desert, he was never LOST, He never used the 911 button on his spot. This is just an example of how "SPOT" will be as bad as false ELTs. A friend was ill informed about this guy out in the desert and when he did not return the guy  called in a missing person and the ball started. So the guy is with his wife and they are camping and a CAP ground team shows up at 5am. The guy was never missing, nor lost. The friend was following this CAP members GPS data log at the SPOT website, when he stopped moving (BECAUSE HE WAS CAMPING) the friend assumed something had happened.

Spot allows friends and family to follow the spot GPS, when his friend saw that he was not moving

this friend panicked because his friend did not tell him he was spending the night and called the sheriff, and a Mission was called.

What an embarrassment, I can guess what the Sanbernardino Sherriff Department thinks of us.

so now everyone who has a spot has the potential to have friends, family, making this mistake. And in December SPOT asked the National Search and Rescue Committee to take over spots emergency 911 operation. This our worst nightmare. Imagine people who fall in the house will be dialing SPOT 911, loose their Dog 911,

Who ever started this BLOG should have checked the facts before they started a false "SPOT, SAVE. story.
I know the guy who was out in the Desert he has more radio equipment than anyone I know on his truck.



Bob Kirby, Capt.
Grp 1 Operations

[isuhawkeye]

If you read the contract, SPOT when they run your credit card reserves the right to bill for services. 

In this case it does not sound like GEOS was involved in the "Rescue"

The onus will continue to be on the AHJ to filter out rescue requests before they pull the trigger on full scale searches. 

I dont see this incident as anyone's worst nightmare.

Afterall currently over 90% of ELT misssions are false alarms.  CAP should be used to wild goose chases

[EMT-83]

It sounds to me like the friend would have panicked, whether there was a SPOT radio involved or not. His buddy was known to be in the desert, and was considered overdue.

Had there been no SPOT radio, a massive search would have probably been launched. Instead, a smaller response was initiated and the parties located quickly. I fail to see where anyone has any reason to be embarrassed.

[DNall]

So regardless of the human factors involved this time out, SPOT = pretty cool tool. If you read my post above on CAP using it in a major mission as poor man's blue force tracker, I think you'd have to agree from a branch director/IC perspective, that's a nice bonus.

[MikeD]

I just wanted to mention we used those during the Ike mission. Had a couple dozen. Sent each GT & aircrew out with one. Then had a laptop in ground ops and another in air that showed their teams. There was still some technical issues, but it was pretty close to a blue force tracker concept. I liked it a lot, especially when we lost comms because a highbird was changing shifts or the team was way out.

SWEEET!!!  I've been talking about doing stuff like that for a couple of months now.  What mapping software did you use?
I vote that the next step is to get an air-base data link so flight crews can know where everyone is.

[DNall]

I have no idea... It got set up at my station for me. It was logged into the company's website & did everything for you. I just watched the thing. You'll have to talk to one of our IT guys for any more detail then that.

[isuhawkeye]

Spot integrates with google maps.

you can follow my SPOT travels here
https://share.findmespot.com/shared/faces/viewspots.jsp?glId=1RWbzRqgr7zAS96mFan27OhTqIy60qkyJ

The Password is my screen name

[isuhawkeye]

Just to explain the system. 

THe beacon reports my position every 10 minutes.  On this day I drove from des moines to Ames.  I rented a 172, and flew up around story city, and then west to the des moines river, then back to Nevada, and finally back to Ames.  the SPOT reported my positions along the way

[DNall]

Just to explain the system. 

THe beacon reports my position every 10 minutes.  On this day I drove from des moines to Ames.  I rented a 172, and flew up around story city, and then west to the des moines river, then back to Nevada, and finally back to Ames.  the SPOT reported my positions along the way

Exactly. Which from a branch director perspective, is a VERY nice tool to have in the box. Now when I have a missed check-in, I can see within minutes if they're still moving. If they're not, or I have a concern, then I have a fairly accurate LKP. If I want to link up teams (air or ground) then I can give them fairly accurate directions. If a GT is lost, I can give them directions off google maps to get them into where I need them.

Now I would also caution branch directors/ICs here. UAVs and Blue Force Tracker in the military provide similar information to commanders in the military. There have been issues as we've brought those on line with micro-managing operators on the ground. Even if you have the capability, be really careful to avoid that.

When a plane goes missing, we have ELTs and radar track data. When a person goes missing, they MAY have a PLB. SPOT has the potential to provide a parallel to that radar track.

[MikeD]

Just to explain the system. 

THe beacon reports my position every 10 minutes.  On this day I drove from des moines to Ames.  I rented a 172, and flew up around story city, and then west to the des moines river, then back to Nevada, and finally back to Ames.  the SPOT reported my positions along the way

Is that a setting that can be changed?  Could we have data once a minute (ground teams), or even as fast as once a second, or at least once every 10 seconds for aircraft?  The specs in my head had an alarm time for lack of data, and 10 minutes of no data from an aircraft (user selectable but default) would have already set off alarms.

Still, I guess this is far better then what we have.  But no where near as good as something like a Blue Force Tracker system... 

[isuhawkeye]

no, the ten minute time frame is not adjustable, and in my opinion 10 minutes is just fine.

If you checked out my track I didn't get that far in the time frame.  Even in the aircraft going 100kts you certainly have more than enough data if an aircraft misses a 30 minute check in

Also, if for some reason the GPS loses connectivity it will simply wait, and report a position when it gets signal again. 

As with any GPS this happens (on the ground) in ravines, heavy tree cover, or other times that the sky is obscured

I would use this device as a tracker, but I would still rely on 30 minute check ins for status updates.  I wouldn't want to jump the gun like our california friend at the beginning of this post

[wingnut55]

I must admit I really do like the Spots tracker Idea, during the Fossett mission with 10 Airplanes in the Air we had to pop up every 3o minutes to call in, the spot could have saved us valuable time and saved hundreds of dollars in AVGAS daily. Since it uses Global Star CAP should use it because Global Star is the Company we use for SDIS and Archer.

We need to start thinking of Cost Savings, CAP is a Govt. entity part of a Govt. that is Bankrupt. . .  Oh sorry we can print more money!!!