Plane Carrying U.S., Mexico Border Officials Missing

[CAPPAO]

The big deal is that CAP is being marginalized out of providing high profile assistance and in time this will result in less funding and even fewer missions.

[Ricochet13]

The big deal is that CAP is being marginalized out of providing high profile assistance and in time this will result in less funding and even fewer missions.

Looking up to see if the sky is descending.   

[FW]

Oh, darn... it was some bird stuff agian....  well, they say it's good luck.

BTW, if it weren't for the posts, I would have never known about this "high profile" incident.  For some reason my paper and local tv stations are talking about some DOW and AIG problems.  Gee, I wonder if my aircraft is still insured?

[Eclipse]

The big deal is that CAP is being marginalized out of providing high profile assistance and in time this will result in less funding and even fewer missions.

We participated fully, even though a more important and higher visibility effort is underway at the same time.

We're not marginalized from anything, and just as was of providing information, CAP is  involved in important low visibility missions all the time.  They are low visibility because the customer asks them to be.

Having flown some myself, I can attest to the validity of the low profile request.

[CAPPAO]

Well, I guess I stand corrected. All is well and going just fabulously for CAP...

[Flying Pig]

In what way are any of those agencies really ready to go looking for a missing civilian aircraft any more than CAP is?  I'd bet CAP does more missing airplane searches in a year than all of them have done together in the last five.

By the way, we've been flying all day on this mission. 

Your not serious?  Thats the problem with CAP members sometimes.  Absolutely no knowledge of what happens in the outside world.  I can assure you the quslifications to become a CBP aircrew or pilot goes far beyond some online courses and a Form 91.
I would imagine the average CBP aircrew member as an individual has probably done more SAR and are much more intimately familiar with their search area than any CAP member and are much more well equipped and trained to do SAR in the desert than a CAP aircrew.  Get over your bad-self.

[Eclipse]

Well, I guess I stand corrected. All is well and going just fabulously for CAP...

Actually, if you don't feel that things are, you may need to step back and do some research.

We have new, effective leadership that appears to have a clear vision of CAP and how to get
us to a level of normalcy so that we can then reach up to more missions from there.

The national leadership continues to work on correcting problems caused by HWSRN.

CAP crews are incredibly busy all over the country with DR and other missions, as they have been most of the year.

What more do you want?

[Flying Pig]

I think there are a few members here who arent going to be satisfied until they are invited to the Pentagon and personally briefed by the Secretary of Defense and offered a list of classified missions to choose from.

[Eclipse]

^ Word.

[Major Carrales]

You people need to watch what you are writing on here.  Much of this is bad form.

Fact is CAP is good at what it does when it is tasked.  Comparing CAP to other organizations, especially ones that are well funded and that utilize paid personnel who are at it for their job is ludicrious.

Mostly, we are a multiplying force to those organizations.  When it is our turn to take the lead we will do well at that as well. 

You all need to heed my advice... "Be more proud of what you are than ashamed of what we are not."

[flyerthom]

Yeah, I guess we wouldn't want to be burdened with a high-profile search for a missing aircraft over the continental US (our No. 1 mission) when we are so busy taking pictures of possible chemical leaks.

Point 1) The mission was not over the US, it was in Mexico. If Mexico has a CAP it's their mission.  All agencies in use on such a search have international treaty rights and obligations.

Point 2) Chemical leaks are a major epidemiological event thus making it a very high profile mission. The information gathered from damage assessments photos will affect thousands of lives, millions of dollars, and miles of ecosystems. Successful missions here  - while not generating Kodak moments - puts CAP in the eyes of the check writers.

Point 3) Playing cowboy and charging into areas we aren't tasked to do gets people killed. Dead people, in areas not in our coverage areas gets funding cut, unwanted regulatory scrutiny and leaves those left behind sans economic support.

[CAPPAO]

The problem is that CAP isn't proactive. See this verbatim account from the June 2008 BOG meeting minutes:

BoG Action
MR. ROWLAND/EX presented a slide briefing which reviewed recent and ongoing
missions/exercises; Cost-effective Force Multiplier; "A", "B" & "C" mission comparison
by category; and AF JROTC Orientation Flights.
In response to a question as to whether Civil Air Patrol voluntarily calls and offers help
following a known disaster/need or waits for the call from agencies needing volunteer
support that CAP can provide, Mr. Rowland responded that, in the past, CAP has
waited for the call. He added that management could get more involved and encourage
local units to initiate the offer of assistance. An added point was made for appropriate
publicity to help ensure awareness of CAP's availability and capability. Mr. Rowland
responded that CAP has a very good working relationship with the public affairs staff at
1st Air Force whose press releases always include the efforts of CAP.

I think it's interesting that Mr. Rowland thinks PR is the answer to this lack of foresight, and not better operational liaisons with authorizing agencies.

[Major Carrales]

The problem is that CAP isn't proactive. See this verbatim account from the June 2008 BOG meeting minutes:

BoG Action
MR. ROWLAND/EX presented a slide briefing which reviewed recent and ongoing
missions/exercises; Cost-effective Force Multiplier; “A”, “B” & “C” mission comparison
by category; and AF JROTC Orientation Flights.
In response to a question as to whether Civil Air Patrol voluntarily calls and offers help
following a known disaster/need or waits for the call from agencies needing volunteer
support that CAP can provide, Mr. Rowland responded that, in the past, CAP has
waited for the call. He added that management could get more involved and encourage
local units to initiate the offer of assistance. An added point was made for appropriate
publicity to help ensure awareness of CAP’s availability and capability. Mr. Rowland
responded that CAP has a very good working relationship with the public affairs staff at
1st Air Force whose press releases always include the efforts of CAP.

I think it's interesting that Mr. Rowland thinks PR is the answer to this lack of foresight, and not better operational liaisons with authorizing agencies.

The idea is to get "the word out" about CAP so that it can be utilized by various levels of government.   Our unit maintains a relationship with local governments, thus, they know who we are. This makes them likely to call us.

Rather than show up during a disaster out of the blue and saying "We're CAP, we are going to run this," we get a call from them saying "This is what we need, can you help us."  We then apply our resources, WING and REGIONAL resources if necessary; in an organized manner as part of a team effort.

It works best for all that way...1) CAP gets deployed, 2) Other agencies fill our GAPS, 3) we fill the gaps of other agencies and 4) the mission at hand is accomplished.

[Rotorhead]

You people need to watch what you are writing on here.  Much of this is bad form.

You can't expect to keep it all sunshine and roses on a public forum. If you want to keep people from speaking their minds in public, then you need to make the board password-protected and keep it secured.

[DNall]

Once again, we flew I believe six sorties in search of this Aircraft on the US side. Mexico had their op on the other side & it was coordinated at high levels. CAP is not an independent agency. We are (particularly in this circumstance) the Aux of the AF. That means they say AF is involved in the search, but it's actually CAP out in the field. That's why we exist, to do their work for them & let them take the credit. That's what they fund us for. If you want better publicity then that, you need to get a squared away MIO to churn up special interest stories.

[Flying Pig]

Very cool then.  So all of this "Woe is me, We dont ever get to play" nonsense was unfounded.

[Rotorhead]

If you want better publicity then that, you need to get a squared away MIO to churn up special interest stories.

Exactly.

[CAPPAO]

So then the point, as Mr. Rowland is quoted saying at the June BOG meeting, is that CAP needs to do a better job ensuring that its clients, and especially AFRCC and USAF, remember to include us on the list of supporting agencies when information is released. And having made this point, then I'd like to suggest that if this isn't accomplished for every mission it's as though we never participated at all, because in the end it is what's written in the newspaper and posted on their web sites that the public and Congress remember. And as far as this high profile mission, because we weren't listed we don't get the credit. A bigger case in point are the disaster relief missions for which the Red Cross and Salvation Army, among other agencies, are getting public recognition, but CAP isn't. In the long run, this will hurt us.

[DNall]

Again, we are not an independent organization like the red cross or salvation army. We are an adjunct of the Air Force. We exist (in major part) to do work for which the AF gets the public relations credit. That is part of our purpose for being.

[CAPPAO]

Again, we are not an independent organization like the red cross or salvation army. We are an adjunct of the Air Force. We exist (in major part) to do work for which the AF gets the public relations credit. That is part of our purpose for being.

So let me see if I have this right.

You're saying the purpose of CAP is to do work for the AF and they get the credit?