Main Menu

Subs?

Started by flyerthom, September 17, 2008, 02:59:19 AM

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

flyerthom

Anyone know what dates and where we sunk the two subs in WW II?
TC

RiverAux

Good luck.  To my knowledge no one has ever matched up a claim of a sub sunk by CAP to a specific German u-boat known to be lost in that area in and around that date (For example u-666 sunk by CAP on x/xx/xxxx).  A year or two ago I contacted a guy who had a web page listing every WWII sub loss and he couldn't point to one sunk by CAP.  This doesn't mean we didn't get them, but I sure would like to have the details pinned down more. 

flyerthom

Quote from: RiverAux on September 17, 2008, 03:22:36 AM
Good luck.  To my knowledge no one has ever matched up a claim of a sub sunk by CAP to a specific German u-boat known to be lost in that area in and around that date (For example u-666 sunk by CAP on x/xx/xxxx).  A year or two ago I contacted a guy who had a web page listing every WWII sub loss and he couldn't point to one sunk by CAP.  This doesn't mean we didn't get them, but I sure would like to have the details pinned down more. 

Must be buried in an archives somewhere. We need a cadet, interested in history with top notch Google Fu skills to find it.
TC

RiverAux

I'm starting to become a little skeptical.  There has been an awful lot of detailed historical research on the u-boat campaign and we may never actually confirm that we sunk one. 

PHall

Some dude with a web page is not "official".
What does the Navy or even DOD say about it?

♠SARKID♠

Quote from: RiverAux on September 18, 2008, 03:18:09 AM
I'm starting to become a little skeptical.  There has been an awful lot of detailed historical research on the u-boat campaign and we may never actually confirm that we sunk one. 

SSSSHHHHHHHH!!!!!  You can't let anyone outside of The League know!

RiverAux

Thats not the only place where German sub losses have been described in detail.  You've got to remember that the Navy and Air Force claimed way more kills than were actually possible.  They were doing it in good faith, they just happened to be wrong.  All I'm saying is that I sure would like to know exactly which u-boats we sunk.  Do a search here and there is another thread that talks about it in more detail.  

flyerthom

Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on September 18, 2008, 03:30:01 AM
Quote from: RiverAux on September 18, 2008, 03:18:09 AM
I'm starting to become a little skeptical.  There has been an awful lot of detailed historical research on the u-boat campaign and we may never actually confirm that we sunk one. 

SSSSHHHHHHHH!!!!!  You can't let anyone outside of The League know!

So cadet, how strong is your Google Fu?   >:D
TC

hatentx

Is it known who the Pilots were or what SQD they were from.  That may be a better way of narrowing the seach field.

wingnut55

This is a very good subject for someone to pursue. I think that there is a huge hidden stack of material at national. But also at many east coast wings. For sure someonr with time should go to the national archives. maybe contact some of the authors who have written books on CAP.

♠SARKID♠

Quote from: flyerthom on September 18, 2008, 05:03:22 AM
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on September 18, 2008, 03:30:01 AM
Quote from: RiverAux on September 18, 2008, 03:18:09 AM
I'm starting to become a little skeptical.  There has been an awful lot of detailed historical research on the u-boat campaign and we may never actually confirm that we sunk one. 

SSSSHHHHHHHH!!!!!  You can't let anyone outside of The League know!

So cadet, how strong is your Google Fu?   >:D

Not strong enough; Tried, got bored, failed. :P

James Shaw

I have seen both the logbook used during one of the sub sinkings with the "classified" classification that was interjected in the book and a letter from a Navy Admiral thanking them for their service and hoping that "one day the citizens of the United States" will know the true work that CAP has done.
Jim Shaw
USN: 1987-1992
GANG: 1996-1998
CAP:2000 - Current
USCGA:2018 - Current
SGAUS: 2017 - Current

citizensoldier

Quote from: caphistorian on September 18, 2008, 11:17:52 AM
I have seen both the logbook used during one of the sub sinkings with the "classified" classification that was interjected in the book and a letter from a Navy Admiral thanking them for their service and hoping that "one day the citizens of the United States" will know the true work that CAP has done.

I would think that a document that old could be de-classified and published as it should no longer be sensetive.

CS
Mt. Hood Composite Squadron 1987-1989
SSG Stillwater Composite Squadron 2008-2009
SSGBroken Arrow Composite Squadron FEB 2009-Present
SGT OKARNG 08 APR 1988-23 JUN 2009

notaNCO forever

The Nazis might find out about are capabilities if we declassify it.  ;)

FW

Quote from: caphistorian on September 18, 2008, 11:17:52 AM
I have seen both the logbook used during one of the sub sinkings with the "classified" classification that was interjected in the book and a letter from a Navy Admiral thanking them for their service and hoping that "one day the citizens of the United States" will know the true work that CAP has done.

I was always told CAP had one confirmed sinking and one "maybe".  However, the quote from the German U boat commander about "those little yellow airplanes" is a fact and, according to him, was a major contributor to the end of the U boat campaign off the US east coast.

flyerthom

Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on September 18, 2008, 11:16:17 AM
Quote from: flyerthom on September 18, 2008, 05:03:22 AM
Quote from: ♠SARKID♠ on September 18, 2008, 03:30:01 AM
Quote from: RiverAux on September 18, 2008, 03:18:09 AM
I'm starting to become a little skeptical.  There has been an awful lot of detailed historical research on the u-boat campaign and we may never actually confirm that we sunk one. 

SSSSHHHHHHHH!!!!!  You can't let anyone outside of The League know!

So cadet, how strong is your Google Fu?   >:D

Not strong enough; Tried, got bored, failed. :P

Yea, me too ... Still intrigued though.  What everyone else is saying is good stuff.
TC

notaNCO forever

My google skills also failed me I found plenty of places that said it happened but not when and were.

RiverAux

Folks, the question is not whether the CAP members or the military believe that CAP sunk a sub, it is whether the Germans actually lost contact with a sub that was known to be in that general area at that general time which in fact might be the sub that CAP sunk.  You're not going to find that answer in any US military records.  They're going to be in the German records.  This has been done with almost all the German subs lost during the war. 

flyerthom

Quote from: RiverAux on September 19, 2008, 01:28:17 AM
Folks, the question is not whether the CAP members or the military believe that CAP sunk a sub, it is whether the Germans actually lost contact with a sub that was known to be in that general area at that general time which in fact might be the sub that CAP sunk.  You're not going to find that answer in any US military records.  They're going to be in the German records.  This has been done with almost all the German subs lost during the war. 


Should have paid attention in High School German  :-[
TC

IceNine

Quote from: RiverAux on September 19, 2008, 01:28:17 AM
Folks, the question is not whether the CAP members or the military believe that CAP sunk a sub, it is whether the Germans actually lost contact with a sub that was known to be in that general area at that general time which in fact might be the sub that CAP sunk.  You're not going to find that answer in any US military records.  They're going to be in the German records.  This has been done with almost all the German subs lost during the war. 

You have to start somewhere.  And that somewhere is to find out when/where (generally) we are claiming this was done.  After that we can start googling the crap out of the U-boat records and figure this out for ourselves.
"All of the true things that I am about to tell you are shameless lies"

Book of Bokonon
Chapter 4

BuckeyeDEJ

You have really, really let me down.

With a subject line like that, I was expecting FOOD, man, FOOD. What is wrong with you people?

After all, I am one of those mission base types, you know....

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=5571.0;all

;D


CAP since 1984: Lt Col; former C/Lt Col; MO, MRO, MS, IO; former sq CC/CD/PA; group, wing, region PA, natl cmte mbr, nat'l staff member.
REAL LIFE: Working journalist in SPG, DTW (News), SRQ, PIT (Trib), 2D1, WVI, W22; editor, desk chief, designer, photog, columnist, reporter, graphics guy, visual editor, but not all at once. Now a communications manager for an international multisport venue.

flyerthom

Quote from: IceNine on September 19, 2008, 11:52:02 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on September 19, 2008, 01:28:17 AM
Folks, the question is not whether the CAP members or the military believe that CAP sunk a sub, it is whether the Germans actually lost contact with a sub that was known to be in that general area at that general time which in fact might be the sub that CAP sunk.  You're not going to find that answer in any US military records.  They're going to be in the German records.  This has been done with almost all the German subs lost during the war. 

You have to start somewhere.  And that somewhere is to find out when/where (generally) we are claiming this was done.  After that we can start googling the crap out of the U-boat records and figure this out for ourselves.


That would be a mjor start. Maybe I missed it but I could not find it in From Maine to Mexico or any other source.

BuckeyeDEJ may be right though -  a conference call or chat over Subs might be a great way to figure this out.
TC

RiverAux


BuckeyeDEJ

Quote from: flyerthom on September 20, 2008, 04:02:21 AM
That would be a mjor start. Maybe I missed it but I could not find it in From Maine to Mexico or any other source.

BuckeyeDEJ may be right though -  a conference call or chat over Subs might be a great way to figure this out.

You know, Subway has that Scrabble game right now. Maybe one of us can win that hybrid car and donate it to CAP, or sell it and donate the proceeds. (Dunno if a Japanese car would look right with CAP or any other U.S. government organization markings.)

There has to be a definitive history of CAP's coastal patrol successes somewhere. Does the Army have that history somewhere, buried in its archives? Maybe it's in a filing cabinet at HQ AF? Or buried under years of cadet paperwork at NHQ? Only The Shadow knows....


CAP since 1984: Lt Col; former C/Lt Col; MO, MRO, MS, IO; former sq CC/CD/PA; group, wing, region PA, natl cmte mbr, nat'l staff member.
REAL LIFE: Working journalist in SPG, DTW (News), SRQ, PIT (Trib), 2D1, WVI, W22; editor, desk chief, designer, photog, columnist, reporter, graphics guy, visual editor, but not all at once. Now a communications manager for an international multisport venue.

bosshawk

How about the Assistant CAP Historian: he is on this blog.
Paul M. Reed
Col, USA(ret)
Former CAP Lt Col
Wilson #2777