New Staff/ Director Requirements for LEVEL 4/5

[DNall]

Yes...but being on staff of an SLS or CLC does not mean you are in charge of much of anything.

Both my SLS and CLC course had about 8 different instructors and two other SM who helped out with adminstration....and there were only about 15 students. 

So just about any job at encampment automatically has more responsibility and work involved just by the nature that it is a 7 day long job.  Even if it is the 2nd Assitant to the Cheif TAC officer.    I would respect that more as a learning experince and developing leaders than just another instructor at the SLS.

I understand. I'm not arguing the "staff" requirement for level 4. I know where the bar is for current SLS/CLC contribution. The change seems reasonable that the same standard would be applied across to these other activities - which means showing up to help sign people into encampment for a couple hours then leaving is perfectly acceptable. If you want to argue the standard should be raised to instructor versus support staff, and that it should then translate to TAC or similar at encampment, versus 2nd asst food service officer, then I'll agree with that too, but that's not my call, nor is it the current or proposed standard.

I'm actually focusing more on the "director" requirement for level 5. In that case, I don't think it's the scale of responsibility/contribution. I think it's more about sitting at least once in that hot seat of being the single go-to guy for the event. If you want to argue that previous Sq/Gp command should also count for that credit, I'm very sympathetic to that as well. My only hesitation would be that part of the reason behind the requirement is to incentivize participation in these other outside activities.

[lordmonar]

Oh sure....for the director slot....SLS, CLC are already on the list.  A TLC if not already on the list is about the same.  But what about local wing stuff?   CAWG does a lot of cadet leadership week ends.  The have the same scope of responsibility as the director of an SLS.

I would not give director credit for everyone who was on encampment staff.  Sure the encament director...maybe his chief of logistics, ops cheif, cheif of staff, cheif TAC officer....but not much below that level.

[CadetProgramGuy]

Well if we go by staffing for Level 4, then I have COC for the NCR 2006 Encampment, and Level 5 I was the Director of TLC.

I think this makes me good to go.  If not, then I will take on the director of the next SLS to get it done.

But the question I have is....Do the new requirements eliminate the need for RSC or NSC?


Also they have First Responder traning as a qualifier for Level 4/5, what about EMT or higher for Level 5 completion?

[arajca]

No. RSC is still required for Level IV and NSC is still required for Level V. Or their authorized military PME replacements.

I think part of the idea of expanding what counts for the staff/director credit is to encourage more training to be held. We have ops geeks who wouldn't consider directing an SLS/CLC/etc, but would staff or direct ICS-300/400. Would they do it without getting credit, maybe - maybe not, but at least this provides AN incentive.

[DNall]

Oh sure....for the director slot....SLS, CLC are already on the list.  A TLC if not already on the list is about the same.  But what about local wing stuff?   CAWG does a lot of cadet leadership week ends.  The have the same scope of responsibility as the director of an SLS.

I would not give director credit for everyone who was on encampment staff.  Sure the encament director...maybe his chief of logistics, ops cheif, cheif of staff, cheif TAC officer....but not much below that level.

I'm open to allowing Wg/CC to request approval for certain major Wg level activities. We do a cadet trng & education program (ALS-NCOA-SNCOA-OTS-CCSC, plus TLC) wknd pgm twice a year which certainly meets that standard. It's not a national dictated activity, which is why it doesn't make the list, and I guess they have to draw the line somewhere, but it's certainly comparable experience.

I'm actually arguing on the director point, that I'm very hesitant to extend credit below the commander/director level, be it encampment or otherwise. I understand that a CoS/commandant/etc all are serious responsibility levels & more work than running an SLS. My issue is that they are not singularly responsible to the Wg/CC for success or failure of a whole event (regardless of scale). As I said, I really don't think that's too much to ask to hold such a command just once in a career in order to reach level 5.

[IceNine]

There is no request.

This letter is very clear that any course that is 12 hours or more qualifies for credit.  And ultimate approval lies with the approving authority.

So if you want staff credit as long as the course is 12 hours and the wing/cc approves its good to go.

Same with director credit, except the region/cc is the approver.

There is no reason to wish and pray, just talk to your wing cc and have them add these courses to the list

[chiles]

Oh sure....for the director slot....SLS, CLC are already on the list.  A TLC if not already on the list is about the same.  But what about local wing stuff?   CAWG does a lot of cadet leadership week ends.  The have the same scope of responsibility as the director of an SLS.

I would not give director credit for everyone who was on encampment staff.  Sure the encament director...maybe his chief of logistics, ops cheif, cheif of staff, cheif TAC officer....but not much below that level.

I suppose the Encampment qualifier will end up being a case by case dependent upon the amount of education that takes place and the opinion of he approving authority. Using Mikey's example of a cook, having someone toss burgers probably doesn't meet the intent of the regulation. But, a cook who also trains their cadet counterparts in meal planning, meal preparation, and the logistics of calculating needed food supplies and food ordering is another matter altogether. I was the Health Supervisor (MD state required title) at this years 2008 TWE. Simply patching kids up doesn't really meet the intent but I also held basic Anatomy and Physiology courses and basic pathophysiology courses for the cadet health staff that were first aid/CPR only and charting, advanced assessment, and mass casualty response to the EMT's. Doing your job is one thing but living by the rule of "everyone learns at Encampment" is something completely different.

[lordmonar]

They all are going to be a case by case situation.