Black Boots in ABUs?

[Stonewall]

From this week's Air Force Times:

Editorial: Say yes to black, general   

When Gen. Norton Schwartz takes over as Air Force chief of staff, a proposed uniform change will be sitting on his new desk: allowing airmen who work on the flight line or perform other dirty jobs to wear the old black leather boots with their new airman battlefield uniforms.

The new green suede boots might be fine for the pristine confines of the office, but they don't belong where grease and grime come with the job.

it's hard to believe anyone involved in the decision to switch boots thought green suede on the flight line was a good idea.

What was a good idea, however, was the decision to solicit airmen's suggestions for uniform improvements online. Hundreds of airmen took that opportunity to ask that they be allowed to wear black boots with their new ABUs.

Many told Air Force Times they avoid wearing the new boots on their everyday jobs, where they'll quickly be ruined, by shucking their ABUs and wearing the old battle dress uniform, with which black boots are OK. but that's a short-term solution — the BDU will be permanently retired in 2011.

To its credit, the Air Force Uniform Board responded to the airmen's input and approved a plan to let those who do dirty jobs return to leather footwear. Virtually all the other players — the Air Force personnel responsible for improving service uniforms, Defense Department and private-sector suppliers and the Army and Air Force Exchange Service — think it's a good move.

And it is. By signing off on the uniform board proposal, Schwartz has an opportunity to show, early in his tenure, that he will put common sense and the needs of rank-and-file airmen high on his priority list. He should jump on it.

[RiverAux]

Gee, actually soliciting opinions on something from the people out on the ground directly rather than expecting them to try to push something up 30 levels of the chain of command....maybe its something CAP might like to think about?

[CASH172]

^Then what's Captalk. 

[mikeylikey]

hmmm........perhaps ditch the green boots altogether.  Silly to have half in green, half in black.  Uniformity=uniform sameness. 

[Hawk200]

The Navy just came out with a no shine black boot for their new utilities. Maybe the Air Force should consider it.

[Cecil DP]

The Navy just came out with a no shine black boot for their new utilities. Maybe the Air Force should consider it.

You know it's been 61 years since the Department of Defense was created and the 5 services still can't get together on a common utitlty/field uniform. Instead they have to have a diferent color and material for each service. With all the cost involved there should only be 1 field uniform.

[Smithsonia]

May I introduce a definition. Uniform is both an adjective AND a noun. Conformity is an adjective only.
Please review the following and consider that many people on this board mix-up and misunderstand all three definitions. Regarding footwear: Calvary boots, tennis shoes, jump boots, corofam and leather low top dress shoes are all uniform footwear as are stadium pumps, provided you're female. Conformity, is a different word because it means a different thing. Uniforms, the noun, is indentified dress to a specific group, not conformity and not uniformity. Nothing more. If the tarmac-tigers in black boots will be accidentally shot as intruders to the flight line by Air Police because they're in black boots... then I can see your consternation. I know I've just pulled the alert-alarm for the Cap-talk uniform police. Let us pray they are never in charge of flight-line security too.
With regards; ED O'BRIEN

UNIFORM:
ADJECTIVE:
   1. Always the same, as in character or degree; unvarying.
   2. Conforming to one principle, standard, or rule; consistent.
   3. Being the same as or consonant with another or others.
   4. Unvaried in texture, color, or design.
NOUN:
   1. A distinctive outfit intended to identify those who wear it as members of a specific group.
   2. One set of such an outfit.

[Smithsonia]

To finish my point about footwear and uniformity/conformity: Let us consider the most uniform and conforming in all of the military... The Sentinel Wall Walkers at the Tomb of the Unknowns at Arlington. BUT even they have an exception to footwear for purpose. WITH REGARDS; ED O'BRIEN

Please read and consider the following.

The shoes are standard issue military dress shoes. They are built up so the sole and heel are equal in height. This allows the Sentinel to stand so that his back is straight and perpendicular to the ground. A side effect of this is that the Sentinel can "roll" on the outside of the build up as he walks down the mat. This allows him to move in a fluid fashion. If he does this correctly, his hat and bayonet will appear to not "bob" up and down with each step. It gives him a more formal and smooth look to his walk, rather than a "marching" appearance.

The soles have a steel tip on the toe and a "horseshoe" steel plate on the heel. This prevents wear on the sole and allows the Sentinel to move smoothly during his movements when he turns to face the Tomb and then back down the mat.

[RickFranz]

The Navy just came out with a no shine black boot for their new utilities. Maybe the Air Force should consider it.

You know it's been 61 years since the Department of Defense was created and the 5 services still can't get together on a common utitlty/field uniform. Instead they have to have a diferent color and material for each service. With all the cost involved there should only be 1 field uniform.

I think the closest they have come to one service uniform was the BDU's.  I have seen Soldiers, Sailors and Airman in that uniform.  Now we have to move away from that, change the color but don't reinvent the wheel.  Rant over!    I do think that working around oily things like aircraft makes sense to keep something on your feet that won't show it.

[LittleIronPilot]

The Navy just came out with a no shine black boot for their new utilities. Maybe the Air Force should consider it.

You know it's been 61 years since the Department of Defense was created and the 5 services still can't get together on a common utitlty/field uniform. Instead they have to have a diferent color and material for each service. With all the cost involved there should only be 1 field uniform.

I am SOOOO with you on that. One freaking uniform across all branch's.

[DC]

The Navy just came out with a no shine black boot for their new utilities. Maybe the Air Force should consider it.

You know it's been 61 years since the Department of Defense was created and the 5 services still can't get together on a common utitlty/field uniform. Instead they have to have a diferent color and material for each service. With all the cost involved there should only be 1 field uniform.

I am SOOOO with you on that. One freaking uniform across all branch's.

I don't have a problem with distinctive dress uniforms, each service has a unique heritage that goes into their uniform, but there is no reason to have a different field/combat uniform for each service. With BDUs at least everyone looked alike, they had different insignia, and that is fine, but the base uniform was the same. Now we have 4 different uniforms, only one of which seems to be any kind of viable camouflage - MARPAT. The entire military should convert to either MARPAT or Multicam. The MARPAT style seems to be functional enough, and the pattern works. Multicam is an excellent universal pattern that works fairly well in multiple environments.

But, alas, wishful thinking.

[Hawk200]

Multicam is an excellent universal pattern that works fairly well in multiple environments.

But, alas, wishful thinking.

Maybe not. The Army is considering Multicam for the next utility uniform. Most likely they'll digitize it and find a way to get out of any licensing fees.

[DC]

Multicam is an excellent universal pattern that works fairly well in multiple environments.

But, alas, wishful thinking.

Maybe not. The Army is considering Multicam for the next utility uniform. Most likely they'll digitize it and find a way to get out of any licensing fees.

I knew the Army was looking at Multicam, I was referring to the entire Armed Forces adopting the same combat uniform, and being more concerned about having an effective uniform, rather than something 'distinctive'.

It would seem to me that a single uniform would also aid in battlefield IFF.. But what do I know...

[SarDragon]

Lemme ask a Q here - why does the Navy need a green working uniform? Previous iterations have been blue my whole life, and probably quite a few years before that. Granted, there are certain small segments that wear camo uniforms of some sort, but they are already well taken care of with the MarPat and whatever the SEALS are wearing these days.

Help me out here.

[Hawk200]

Lemme ask a Q here - why does the Navy need a green working uniform? Previous iterations have been blue my whole life, and probably quite a few years before that. Granted, there are certain small segments that wear camo uniforms of some sort, but they are already well taken care of with the MarPat and whatever the SEALS are wearing these days.

Help me out here.

They're not green. It's a digital camo utility (designed to hide dirt and grime, not the wearer) similar to the old BDU. A link to the Navy Task Force Uniform page with the working uniform:

http://www.npc.navy.mil/CommandSupport/USNavyUniforms/uniform_photos.htm

Don't think there's any green whatsoever. As long as you don't think of it as meant to conceal the wearer, it's OK looking.

[DC]

It is made up of varying shades of blue and grey on a MARPAT like pattern, with regular black boots or black suede boots.

[Smithsonia]

To match the Blue Marpat -- If we go to blue suede boots Carl Perkins and Elvis will come back to the building. Sorry, I know this is a serious topic and I tried to control myself... but I failed.
With regards;
ED OBRIEN

[RiverAux]

When the Carrier mini-series was on recently I was surprised to see how many Navy personnel were regularly wearing BDU pants.   Obviously the camo was worthless, but the pants themselves are pretty handy for a lot of dirty jobs. 

[SarDragon]

Lemme ask a Q here - why does the Navy need a green working uniform? Previous iterations have been blue my whole life, and probably quite a few years before that. Granted, there are certain small segments that wear camo uniforms of some sort, but they are already well taken care of with the MarPat and whatever the SEALS are wearing these days.

Help me out here.

They're not green. It's a digital camo utility (designed to hide dirt and grime, not the wearer) similar to the old BDU. A link to the Navy Task Force Uniform page with the working uniform:

http://www.npc.navy.mil/CommandSupport/USNavyUniforms/uniform_photos.htm

Don't think there's any green whatsoever. As long as you don't think of it as meant to conceal the wearer, it's OK looking.

Ouch. Those service uniforms look BAD! Glad I won't have to wear them.

As for the green question, I was referring to commentary that seemed to suggest a single uniform color for all services.

[DC]

Lemme ask a Q here - why does the Navy need a green working uniform? Previous iterations have been blue my whole life, and probably quite a few years before that. Granted, there are certain small segments that wear camo uniforms of some sort, but they are already well taken care of with the MarPat and whatever the SEALS are wearing these days.

Help me out here.

They're not green. It's a digital camo utility (designed to hide dirt and grime, not the wearer) similar to the old BDU. A link to the Navy Task Force Uniform page with the working uniform:

http://www.npc.navy.mil/CommandSupport/USNavyUniforms/uniform_photos.htm

Don't think there's any green whatsoever. As long as you don't think of it as meant to conceal the wearer, it's OK looking.

Ouch. Those service uniforms look BAD! Glad I won't have to wear them.

As for the green question, I was referring to commentary that seemed to suggest a single uniform color for all services.

The Navy doesn't need a green/camo uniform, but they are the odd man out, the rest of the services do. I think it would be simpler and much easier on the $$$ if the whole military, with the possible exception of the Coast Guard, because of their law enforcement role, went to a single combat uniform. Money is not wasted on developing a uniforms for each service and having to produce said uniforms. You could instead devote the resources required to produce all those separate uniforms to making a single one. Much more efficient, and likely cheaper all around.

And by one uniform I am not suggesting one uniform for all climates. *cough*ACU *Cough* But like a modern BDU, a style of uniform with different patterns for different environments, but that standard style would be universal across the military.