Steve Fosset's Widow to be billed for search...

[Tubacap]

I'd like to restate my question about which "hat" CAP was wearing that day.  I know that somtimes PEMA pays for missions that PAWG does through appropriated monies directly to the wing.  Some missions are flown on the USAF dime, and some from other agencies.

Some expanded incidents have various sections that are flown from the state until the NOC makes it a federal mission and it is flown under either corporate or USAF funds.

If this was a state mission, then some of the kickbacks should come back to the wing.  Not saying this is a good thing, just saying it is out there.

So, does anyone know the mission symbol that these sorties were flown under?

[RiverAux]

I have never heard of a missing aircraft mission being flown under anything but an AFAM. 

Now, I wonder just how fair it is to bill somebody for a service that they didn't specifically ask for.  The guy with the sprained ankle probably didn't call and ask for help, so how is it fair to bill him for a decision made by somebody in the government to come looking for him? 

[sardak]

The guy with the broken ankle wasn't lost but did call for help after he hiked as far as he could on the ankle. One issue was that the Golden Fire Dept. responded outside of its district and therefore it had to charge him. The rationale was that the residents of the district shouldn't foot the bill for an out of district call. There was a second FD that responded, also out of district, and they charged the hiker $2400 in addition to the $5900 Golden billed him. After the negative publicity, the other FD withdrew its bill entirely, Golden didn't. The hiker settled by paying Golden $502.  Neither FD was responsible for performing the SAR mission, which by state law is the responsibility of the sheriff. The sheriff's no-bill SAR team had to stand by and watch. That's the real issue.

As for the feds charging for SAR, this is from the National SAR Plan, which of course is only policy, not regulatory: "Participants agree that unless required for by law, civil SAR services provided to persons in danger or distress will be without subsequent cost-recovery from the person(s) assisted."  The Coast Guard can and has billed for SAR, but only in cases of hoaxes as far as I can find. There may have been cases involving gross negligence, but I'm not aware of them.

I suspect on the Fossett search the state is being opportunistic. It was involved in a search for a person who some believe staged his own disappearance, and whose personal wealth combined with that of his friends, who also helped with the search, is in the billions of dollars. The state, like Golden with its residents, wants to look like it is showing fiduciary responsibility to its citizens.

Mike

[Flying Pig]

From the tone of the article, I almost got the feel that they were "asking" her to pay it back.  Kind of like, "Hey, ummmm..we shelled out a ton for your hubby.  Do you think you could help us out by paying it back?"

[lordmonar]

Being a Nevada Resident........it's all well and good to say "let the government suffer for it's lack of fiscal responsbility"....and "how dare they charge for rescue services"

EMT services and emergency rooms charge for treating you....no one is up in arms about that.

I know when I was in a Volunteer Fire Department way back in the 80's....we billed the victums if we responded to their fire....even if all that was left was a foundation.

The life flight choppers are not free.

Sure it's a dig to charge the widow...but let's face it....sometimes you have got to say....sorry you can't get a free pass.

Recouping these losses may save several people's jobs......like school teachers and rural doctors....which the state is thinking about scaling back!

[jimmydeanno]

EMT services and emergency rooms charge for treating you....no one is up in arms about that.

Actually people are...one of the "issues" in the upcoming election concerns universal healthcare...go socialism...

[Flying Pig]

The County I am with does not charge people for SAR, although, even a fairly small search can costs 10's of thousands of dollars.  I am not opposed to charging people.  Especially with times like they are, the resources aren't cheap, not are they free.   Although, the average person would never be able to pay the bill. 
One issue we have is that some seasons, we have so many SAR's it exceeds our budget or you can have a large involved search that nobody could have anticipated that may last for quite a while. One concept that has been done is that if you are a county resident, you pay county taxes, therefore you get it free.  If you aren't, your resident county gets the bill.  And in some cases, the state will reimburse our expenses for a SAR. Im not sure of the criteria for the reimbursements but it has been done.  We even had one where a kid stayed lost on purpose and even hid from the SAR Team until he was done playing.  He didn't get a bill, so I don't know what the criteria is.

[Johnny Yuma]

I know when I was in a Volunteer Fire Department way back in the 80's....we billed the victums if we responded to their fire....even if all that was left was a foundation.

Talk about low form. Around here that's one of the reasons we pay property taxes!

Did the police department charge to respond to robberies and murders, too? Was it by the hour, or by event?

[Short Field]

Dumb idea!!!  The Governor of Nevada is going through a divorce right now.  Must be affecting his brain.  And his campaign pledge to not raise taxes as the state hits a major shortfall in its budget.

There are cases where it is appropriate for SAR to charge for their services.  This is not one of them.  The local police started charging for using their rescue helicopter to pull people off of a local mountain top.  The peak was not that high but had a killer view.  Most of the slopes look like an easy climb but are not meant for nontechnical climbing.    So people went up for the view and had to get a chopper ride to get off.  It was becoming a very routine occurrence.  After charging a few stuckees, people quit attempting the climbs.

[arajca]

I know when I was in a Volunteer Fire Department way back in the 80's....we billed the victums if we responded to their fire....even if all that was left was a foundation.

Talk about low form. Around here that's one of the reasons we pay property taxes!

Did the police department charge to respond to robberies and murders, too? Was it by the hour, or by event?

Not all volunteer fire departments are funded by taxes. I have talked to fire fighters from vfd's that use the following funding systems:
Tax district
Subscription service
Pay-per-call
Donations
Barter
Sales
Fund-raising activities
Cominations of any or all of the above.

To those who pay taxes that support their fire department, the idea of paying for a fire response may seem reprehensible, but in some rural areas, it's a fact of life. Fire insurance or homeowners insurance usually covers the cost.

As for charging for SAR, I have seen it done in very limited circumstances. Colorado is fortunate to have a fund that SAR teams can apply to for reimbursement for some costs. The fund is filled by an endorsement on hunting and fishing licenses and by a hiker's license. The endorsement and hiker's license are entirely optional.

[CASH172]

Do any insurance gurus know if renters insurance covers for a SAR response. 

[isuhawkeye]

some parts of the county still have subscription based services.  If you didnt pay this year the FD doesn't respond

[mikeylikey]

some parts of the county still have subscription based services.  If you didn't pay this year the FD doesn't respond

Really?  I thought that went away in the 1950's.

Do any insurance gurus know if renters insurance covers for a SAR response. 

Most likely NO.  It covers your rental property and what is placed inside that property.  If you happen to go missing, you are no longer inside your rental property, thus your insurance does not cover you.   

[mikeylikey]

I wasn't going to comment on this thread, (didn't want to sound like a jerk), but this lady has millions.  She has 100's of millions.  I think she can afford the cost. 

Anyway, this guy didn't file a flight plan right?  He was a huge risk taker, right?  Then he and his family should pay. 

[JayT]

I wasn't going to comment on this thread, (didn't want to sound like a jerk), but this lady has millions.  She has 100's of millions.  I think she can afford the cost. 

Anyway, this guy didn't file a flight plan right?  He was a huge risk taker, right?  Then he and his family should pay. 

We don't get to pick and choice the people we're assigned to find.

I don't care if we were sent to go chase after Bill Gates. Search and Rescue/Recovery is our job.

If I disappeared without a flight plan, I wouldn't want my parents/signgificant other getting the bill.

[mikeylikey]

I have no compassion for people that have millions of dollars and are asked to pay out such a small amount.  As far as a middle class person receiving a bill.....I don't think that is right.

If you are rich, then you get to pay.  Plain and simple.

Federal Assets were used to try to Find ONE (1) person, because of who he was.  The widow should pay for those assets.  IF this was me or you, do you really think C-130's and all the other junk that flew would be used for us?  Most likely no, and that is why she gets to pay.   

[Gunner C]

I have no compassion for people that have millions of dollars and are asked to pay out such a small amount.  As far as a middle class person receiving a bill.....I don't think that is right.

If you are rich, then you get to pay.  Plain and simple.

Federal Assets were used to try to Find ONE (1) person, because of who he was.  The widow should pay for those assets.  IF this was me or you, do you really think C-130's and all the other junk that flew would be used for us?  Most likely no, and that is why she gets to pay.   

Give me the dollar amount at which they have to write a check.

[isuhawkeye]

please provide a definition of 'rich' that could cover the entire country.

[mikeylikey]

please provide a definition of 'rich' that could cover the entire country.

A person that makes over $200,000 a year. 

[Gunner C]

please provide a definition of 'rich' that could cover the entire country.

A person that makes over $200,000 a year. 

So someone who makes $199,999 a year gets free volunteer searchers and the citizen who makes $200,001 pays the bill if something happens?  Doesn't it matter that both of them will have payed a great deal in local, state, and federal taxes for services just like this?

With all due respect: I disagree.  Each citizen and resident of this country deserves the same consideration.  As a Civil Air Patrol officer, I search for anyone with the same vigor, no matter what their station in life.

GC