Advanced Initial Grade and the Prof Dev Program

[arajca]

That's very true. And I'd like to point out that this is a convenience study. There are no blinds, no questionnaires, no mixing backgrounds. I'd bet that a sizeable portion of the people who spend a decent amount of time here are the ones not doing the PD program. Of that same group of cohorts and you will likely find that they have, in some way, known or worked with someone who sat on an appointed rank and didn't budge and inch.

I'll take your bet. From what I've seen, most the folks who spend a decent amount of time here ARE the ones doing the PD program.

In reality, I have seen a great many people enter CAP with an advanced grade and they worked to complete the program anyway. The Maryland Wing Commander, Col Weiss, was in my SLS course. I taught a class for it, as well as attended, and he mentioned that he would feel that he didn't do a part of his duty by leading from the front and go through the training that expects others to. I think that this process is repeated by many professional appointed senior members. It certainly happened to me. I sported a butter bar because of my Mitchell and until the professional appointment came, then I was pinned 1st Lt. I just got promoted to Captain a few months ago and though it could have been done through the professional appointment system without requiring me to move above Level 1, I did it anyway. Just some food for thought.

Most of the advanced promotions I have seen are pilots who got their Capt's bars and only did Level I and CPPT because they were told they couldn't fly CAP aircraft if they didn't do that. Most won't even try to use the "I don't have time for PD" excuse - they just don't care about it, although a couple have asked why they can't make Maj after being a Capt for three years. I've seen a few military promotions and they've been about a 50-50 split on doing PD.

Based on my experience - and yours will most likely vary - most advance promoters don't backfill PD.

[Bluelakes 13]

Hmm,  how were you able to get a Senior rating in that short time span?

Original Join Date 9 Aug 99, dark side on 19 Jan 2007 (though NHQ decided my date of rank for SM should be 9 Aug 99, when I was 13)
LV1 = 19 Jan 2007
LV2 = 14 Mar 2007
LV3 - 17 Apr 2007

Promoted to Capt on 25 Jan 2007

Only waiting on a master rating (waiting on approval from the commander) for LV4, and NSC for LV5

[Flying Pig]

I got 1st Lt. for having my Mitchell.

[mikeylikey]

I got 1st Lt. for having my Mitchell.

??  So the Mitchell gets a former Cadet 1st Lt??

[Flying Pig]

OOOOPs, I meant 2nd Lt.

[DogCollar]

I joined in June of 2006 and received my Chaplain's appointment in September of '06, with the grade of Captain.  Since that time, I have been working on the Chaplaincy specialty track PLUS I will be doing SLS this weekend, and I am half way through AFIADL 13.  I have completed both 221 and 221A in the Chaplaincy track.  Simultaneously, I am working on getting my Mission Chaplain rating.

[dwb]

LV1 = 19 Jan 2007
LV2 = 14 Mar 2007
LV3 - 17 Apr 2007

Don't you have to serve in a command or staff position for one year to get Level III?  Jan-Apr is four months.  Also, you managed to attend two Wing or Region conferences and earn a Senior rating in a specialty track in that span of four months?

I may be out of line, but I have to throw a BS flag here.  At the very least, this kind of rapid level completion isn't in the spirit of the CAP professional development program.

[Tim Medeiros]

I earned the senior rating as a cadet, in communications, authorized IAW 100-1V1 Chapter 4 at the time.

Commander at the time authorized my service on group and squadron staff as a cadet (prior to the 1 Oct 2006 version of CAPR 52-16 which stated cadets can no longer serve as non-assistants, at that point in time I switched to being an assistant.)  Positions included DDRO for both group and squadron which started on 23 Dec 2004, I also served as Assistant Admin Officer at group, IT then Assistant IT officer at both group and squadron, I also assisted the PD Officer at group.

In regards to the conferences, again commander decided "time served" as I had attended each wing conference since 2002, in addition to the NB in Tampa in 2004.

My reason for the rapid completion was I am currently in the school mindset and I have spare time, with my future plans (joining the Air Force) I know for a fact my time in the future will be limited.

Before anyone doubts my PD course completions, I completed ECI/AFIADL-13 in Sept 2006, SLS first weekend in Mar 2007 and CLC on the third weekend of the same month.

If anyone else has any questions in regards to my record, please feel free to ask, that portion of my record is in my opinion an open book.  I would however recommend taking it to PM so as to not hijack this thread any more than it already has been.

[SSgt Rudin]

I can see encouraging cadets who are about to succumb to the 'dark side' at 21 a little extra icing on the cake by giving them a leg up on already-completed officer PD requirements taken as a cadink as well as advanced grade.

Icing on the cake? You have sat threw the PD courses, I would be hard pressed to find a regularly active C/officer who couldn't pass LVL1, get a master rating in CP, and pass ECI-13, SLS, TLC, CLC (and some C/maj's^ who could do RSC) with out opening a book. I know of one cadet who sat for the ECI-13 test and passed with an 90% with out even knowing what the test was on.

The things we are required to learn are what our cadets learn in Phase 1-3, I can not see NOT automatically promoting former c/officers.

[lordmonar]

Let's face it....PD is more or less a joke.  Not that the material is a joke or the people doing the training are not professonal or are not doing a good job.  But for the most part it is too little too late.

If you have a professional degree or skills that grant you higher promotion....then you don't need the skipped PD classes...by definition.

If you need the classes then we should not be giving them the advanced promotion.

They will need to catch up to progress....but that will depend on the individual.

[SoCalCAPOfficer]

I joined in July 2003.  I was promoted to Captain in January 2004 as a Legal Officer.   I decided early on that I was going to complete the whole program required or not.   I first became a Scanner and Observer.   Then I started getting other staff positions.  Logistics Officer, Professional Development Officer and ES Training Officer.    I went to SLS in 2006, CLC and UCC in 2007.  I became Squadron Commander in July of 2007.   I was promoted to Major in October of 2007.

So although the initial promotion was given to me, I worked my butt off to complete everything anyone else would have to do to make Major.  In order for me to become a Lt Col, I do have the choice of going to either the National Legal College, RSC, or taking SOS through AFIADL.   The National Legal College is better because I can get my required Continuing Legal Education at the same time.

We have several Special Appointments, Teachers and CFI's and they all work very hard for my Squadron and CAP.  I certainly would not begrudge the extra rank for all that they do.

[FW]

I've seen it both ways.  Most I've known went through the PD program all the way.
Those that did not, felt it would be a waste of time.  Those that did, felt a need to be more "integrated" with the membership and the whole program.
For me, I did it to meet and interact with more of the membership.  Wether it was going to a conference, teaching a course, giving a talk to a community group or going to NSC, I found it to be anything other than a waste. It was a great learning experience.

Promotion to an advanced grade for special skills, taking on extra responsibility or previous military grade is part of our culture, and has been for many years.  No one forces a member to progress up the PD program, nor should.  IMHO, it's an individual choice and it should be respected.  I know of many active pilots, communicators, Legal Officers, etc.  who do their CAP jobs with distinction and have never progressed past Level 2.  It doesn't bother me in the least.

[dwb]

Let's face it....PD is more or less a joke.

Allow me to disagree.  I think CAP has (finally) started to put some good brains on the problem of CAP PD, and we've seen the payoff: the new SLS and CLC curriculums are much better than their predecessors, TLC is wonderful, and it sounds like they're finally getting around to updating the CAP Officer Course (AFIADL-13).  Hopefully an overhaul of UCC will come around sometime soon.

There are still two lingering problems with PD that make it difficult to realize its potential, and one of them is nobody's fault.

The first is that we still lack a coherent way of training our instructors and in-residence program directors.  The result is great disparity in the quality of program delivery.  To use SLS as an example, the content used to be the biggest problem; the instructor materials and slides were awful.  Now they're much better, but you still need to do your homework as an instructor, and still need to know how to speak in front of a group and lead a guided discussion.

The second factor weighing on our PD program, and one that is nobody's fault, is that CAP doesn't have an "up-or-out" promotion system like the USAF.  You can linger at 1st Lt for 10+ years because you don't feel like doing the ADL-13 course, and still participate actively and contribute great things.

IOW, as good as our PD program has become, it's still completely optional.

I'm not saying mandatory progression through the PD program is the answer, I haven't thought through all the ramifications of such a policy.  But I do think we could train our instructors/directors better, and if we were able to provide consistently high quality PD over a sufficiently long enough period of time, I think you'd see a rise in the overall quality of our officers, and that certainly isn't a bad thing.

[lordmonar]

Don't get me wrong....the PD program is good....in that the material is professional and relevant....but in the context of advanced promotion....it is a waist of time.

By the time a CAP officer gets the training he/she no longer "needs" it.  It becomes a box filling exercise.

[link]

If you come in as a SMWOG you have 36 months before your are eligible for Captain, that is a lot of time to go to two conferences, SLS, TLC, ECI-13, Complete technician and senior rating, etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you've just combined Levels 2 and 3.  For Captain all you need is Level 2 which is Tech Rating, SLS, and the ECI 13.

"To complete this level and earn the Benjamin O. Davis, Jr. Award, you will become technician rated in a specialty track (earning the leadership ribbon), and complete the "CAP Senior Officer Correspondence Course" (commonly called "ECI-13" for the old pamphlet number given to this course). See CAPR 50-17 for details on these requirements." 

"After completing Level Two, you are prepared for Level Three.

To complete this level and earn the Grover Leoning Award and the Loening ribbon, you will become senior rated in a specialty track, attend two major conferences, serve in a staff or command assignment for at least one year, and complete the Corporate Learning Course. See CAPR 50-17 for details on these requirements. " That is right off the national website. 

[davedove]

If you come in as a SMWOG you have 36 months before your are eligible for Captain, that is a lot of time to go to two conferences, SLS, TLC, ECI-13, Complete technician and senior rating, etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you've just combined Levels 2 and 3.  For Captain all you need is Level 2 which is Tech Rating, SLS, and the ECI 13.

"To complete this level and earn the Benjamin O. Davis, Jr. Award, you will become technician rated in a specialty track (earning the leadership ribbon), and complete the "CAP Senior Officer Correspondence Course" (commonly called "ECI-13" for the old pamphlet number given to this course). See CAPR 50-17 for details on these requirements." 

"After completing Level Two, you are prepared for Level Three.

To complete this level and earn the Grover Leoning Award and the Loening ribbon, you will become senior rated in a specialty track, attend two major conferences, serve in a staff or command assignment for at least one year, and complete the Corporate Learning Course. See CAPR 50-17 for details on these requirements. " That is right off the national website. 

I believe it was in reference to promotion to Major (if I'm wrong please correct me).  If you advance up to Captain through duty performance, you have three years as Captain, plus three more to make Major, making six years to complete Level III.

If you get advanced promotion to Captain, you then only have three years to complete the same requirements to make Major.

Although, if you can time the courses right, you can complete Level III in a year and a half.  I know because I did it.

[0]

If you come in as a SMWOG you have 36 months before your are eligible for Captain, that is a lot of time to go to two conferences, SLS, TLC, ECI-13, Complete technician and senior rating, etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you've just combined Levels 2 and 3.  For Captain all you need is Level 2 which is Tech Rating, SLS, and the ECI 13.

"To complete this level and earn the Benjamin O. Davis, Jr. Award, you will become technician rated in a specialty track (earning the leadership ribbon), and complete the "CAP Senior Officer Correspondence Course" (commonly called "ECI-13" for the old pamphlet number given to this course). See CAPR 50-17 for details on these requirements." 

"After completing Level Two, you are prepared for Level Three.

To complete this level and earn the Grover Leoning Award and the Loening ribbon, you will become senior rated in a specialty track, attend two major conferences, serve in a staff or command assignment for at least one year, and complete the Corporate Learning Course. See CAPR 50-17 for details on these requirements. " That is right off the national website. 

I believe it was in reference to promotion to Major (if I'm wrong please correct me).  If you advance up to Captain through duty performance, you have three years as Captain, plus three more to make Major, making six years to complete Level III.

If you get advanced promotion to Captain, you then only have three years to complete the same requirements to make Major.

Although, if you can time the courses right, you can complete Level III in a year and a half.  I know because I did it.

I looked back Link shortened the full message.  WIth the first part it could go either way.

[James Shaw]

The chart has it all. Copied from current version on NHQ eservices.

[Short Field]

Yes it is!!  That is the only piece of paper I always keep under my keyboard for quick reference at the squadron.      Oh, and my glasses so I can read the small print....

[Short Field]

To use SLS as an example, the content used to be the biggest problem; the instructor materials and slides were awful.  Now they're much better, but you still need to do your homework as an instructor, and still need to know how to speak in front of a group and lead a guided discussion.

Amen....