Advanced Initial Grade and the Prof Dev Program

[RiverAux]

Many know that I am not in favor of CAP offering ANY advanced rank to new CAP members and that I believe ALL members should only advance through duty performance promotions.  But, that is not exactly what I want to discuss here.

I am interested in seeing how many CAP members who receive an initial advanced CAP grade for any of the currently authorized reasons, later go on to "catch up" in the CAP professional development program and receive regular duty performance promotions. 

If most of these folks do catch up, perhaps the advanced promotions aren't as bad as I and others think. 

[Trung Si Ma]

I got Captain when I turned 21 for a 1st Class FCC License and got my Loening the same year.  The GRW came later.

[Short Field]

Most new members awarded advanced initial grade that I have seen since joining fail into two camps.

One camp has the members that never really got involved and let their memberships expire after the first or second year.   The second camp starts taking all the required PD courses and begins progressing up the PD levels.  It seems to be about a 50/50 split.  

I really can't think of any relatively new members in the squadron (about 100 senior members) that actively participate who are not progressing in professional development. We even have a couple of new members that will probably get their Wilson awards within four years of joining CAP.

We do have a small handful of older members who got awarded their advanced iniital grade for military service and are just sitting on it without participating in PD.  I am not sure what the climate was in the squadron toward PD when they joined.  They show up for some exercises, meetings, and missions but are otherwise not active in helping run the squadron.  However, recently we are even seeing some interest in PD from them.

[SSgt Rudin]

I have noticed that most members who are advanced due to "Special Skills" seem to promote slower after their initial advanced promotion. The consensus among them is that "They have more work for their next promotion" then the other members.

If you come in as a SMWOG you have 36 months before your are eligible for Captain, that is a lot of time to go to two conferences, SLS, TLC, ECI-13, Complete technician and senior rating, etc. However if you come in as a Captain you have the same 3 years that your other counterparts have to meet the requirements for Major but you also have to meet the requirements for 1st Lt and Capt. So unless they are independently wealthy and can do nothing but CAP they are going to promote slower and possibly become discouraged.

[adamblank]

Many know that I am not in favor of CAP offering ANY advanced rank to new CAP members and that I believe ALL members should only advance through duty performance promotions.  But, that is not exactly what I want to discuss here.

I am interested in seeing how many CAP members who receive an initial advanced CAP grade for any of the currently authorized reasons, later go on to "catch up" in the CAP professional development program and receive regular duty performance promotions. 

If most of these folks do catch up, perhaps the advanced promotions aren't as bad as I and others think. 

I know that you said all, but would this also encompass former cadets.  I see that you wrote new CAP members, but how do you feel about that?  Do you feel that it is reasonable the way it is?

[MIKE]

I know that you said all, but would this also encompass former cadets.  I see that you wrote new CAP members, but how do you feel about that?  Do you feel that it is reasonable the way it is?

No.

[RiverAux]

Lets stipulate that we are talking about CAP members who join and get advanced grade and then stay in for 2+ years and not worry about those that drop out fairly quickly. 

adam-- thats right -- no advanced promotions for anyone, including former cadets.  But, thats off topic...

[James Shaw]

Effective Dates of Promotion
Second Lieutenant September 2001    Level 1 September 2001
First Lieutenant November 2002          Level 2 November 2002
Captain September 2004                     Level 3 September 2004
Major December 2006                          Level 4 July 2007

I received advancement for Squadron Commander Duty after 1 year from 1st Lt. to Captain. I was DDR Squadron Commander for 3 years.

I received special promotion from Captain to Major due to duty performance.

I am almost done with Level 5 requirements. All I need is National Staff College and I plan on attending that this October. It is my birthday present to myself.
I have kept a decent pace with PD to go along with my current rank and responsibilities.

[Wizard]

Joined CAP 09May 2006
Completed Level 1: 15 May 2006
Completed Level 2: 15 December 2006
Completed Level 3: 18 March 2008
Completed Level 4: 09 May 2008

Effective dates of Promotion:

2nd Lieutenant- 15 November 2006
Major-                 28 December 2006

Level 5 to be completed on 09 May 2009.  The only items pending are directing an SLS and three years in a command/staff position.  Dragged my feet with my Senior Rating in AE or level 3 would have been done sooner.  Master Rating complete as of 22 April 2008.

In a holding pattern until I complete Air Command and Staff College in October.

[AlphaSigOU]

Rejoined CAP (after 17-year break in membership): 17 Oct 2005
Level I: 22 Nov 2005
Level II: 25 July 2006
Level III: 24 Jan 2007
Level IV: All requirements complete except for either getting up off my duff and complete SOS. Or hoof it to RSC.
Level V: A gleam in my eye right now.

1st Lt: 23 Jan 2006 (Special appointment, former cadet (Earhart). Lost my seniority from my previous promotion to 1st Lt back in the 80s.)
Capt: 14 July 2007
Major: God willing, and the creek don't rise, anytime after July 2010.

[AlphaSigOU]

I'll probably get pilloried for this, but here's how I would like to see advanced initial grades handled:

I can see encouraging cadets who are about to succumb to the 'dark side' at 21 a little extra icing on the cake by giving them a leg up on already-completed officer PD requirements taken as a cadink as well as advanced grade. As long as there is no break in membership (no more than two years). After two years break in membership, promotion only considered after completion of Level I and six months as a member.

As for any other special appointment promotion? Completion of Level I and six months as a member. Plus the member should include as part of his promotion package how he or she can benefit CAP with advanced grade because of mission-essential skills/former military grade/professional specialty/chaplain, etc. No more 'shake and bake'!

[Tim Medeiros]

Original Join Date 9 Aug 99, dark side on 19 Jan 2007 (though NHQ decided my date of rank for SM should be 9 Aug 99, when I was 13)
LV1 = 19 Jan 2007
LV2 = 14 Mar 2007
LV3 - 17 Apr 2007

Promoted to Capt on 25 Jan 2007

Only waiting on a master rating (waiting on approval from the commander) for LV4, and NSC for LV5

[RiverAux]

Folks, I'm not seeing how your PD history relates to the topic at hand....

[Tim Medeiros]

For me, it goes with this section of your initial post "I am interested in seeing how many CAP members who receive an initial advanced CAP grade for any of the currently authorized reasons, later go on to "catch up" in the CAP professional development program and receive regular duty performance promotions."  I was merely providing information that I received advanced initial grade then progressed in the PD program.

[Ranger75]

I completed the Cadet Program back in the 70s.  After returning to CAP after a break of 32 years, I have set a personal goal of completing the Senior Professional Development Program.

DOR Capt, CAP - 1974 (Former Spaatz Cadet)
DOR LTC, CAP -22 Aug 06 (AD COL)
LV1 - 24 Jan 2006  
LV2 - 28 Aug 2006  
LV3 - 19 Sep 2007  
LV4 - 10 Jan 2008
LV5 - All requirements met with the exception of serving as Director of a PD course

[ßτε]

Folks, I'm not seeing how your PD history relates to the topic at hand....

I think they are showing you that they had advanced promotions and are progressing in PD.

[RiverAux]

They're a sample of one which is not terribly helpful to the conversation.   

[Wizard]

I am interested in seeing how many CAP members who receive an initial advanced CAP grade for any of the currently authorized reasons, later go on to "catch up" in the CAP professional development program and receive regular duty performance promotions. 

They're a sample of one which is not terribly helpful to the conversation.   

how so?  With the exception of Ranger75 who is a former AD Colonel...those of us who've responded have continued on with the CAP Professional Development program AND have been promoted and/or are eligible (in several cases) for regular duty performance promotions...how is this not helpful?

[RiverAux]

Because we're talking statistics here.  In your personal experience 100% of YOU have gone ahead, which means nothing when looking at CAP membership as a whole. 

Please note that nearly 50% of poll respondents have indicated that 25% or less of members who have received advanced promotions go on to participate in PD.  I don't claim that that sample is statistically valid, but it is a lot closer than individual examples presented here. 

[chiles]

That's very true. And I'd like to point out that this is a convenience study. There are no blinds, no questionnaires, no mixing backgrounds. I'd bet that a sizeable portion of the people who spend a decent amount of time here are the ones not doing the PD program. Of that same group of cohorts and you will likely find that they have, in some way, known or worked with someone who sat on an appointed rank and didn't budge and inch.

For this study to truly be complete, you will at least need 30 people (as that's what I was taught was valid minimum sample). There should be a lot more and a cross section of the squadron (e.g. randomly picking people from all walks of CAP, even those who are the embodiment of a senior member not making it past their advanced rank promotion). I would believe that the amount of people who receive advanced promotion and begins climbing the PD later are simply outnumbered by those members who did not get a professional promotion and have had some small, or large, experience with someone who did and refused to go further.

In reality, I have seen a great many people enter CAP with an advanced grade and they worked to complete the program anyway. The Maryland Wing Commander, Col Weiss, was in my SLS course. I taught a class for it, as well as attended, and he mentioned that he would feel that he didn't do a part of his duty by leading from the front and go through the training that expects others to. I think that this process is repeated by many professional appointed senior members. It certainly happened to me. I sported a butter bar because of my Mitchell and until the professional appointment came, then I was pinned 1st Lt. I just got promoted to Captain a few months ago and though it could have been done through the professional appointment system without requiring me to move above Level 1, I did it anyway. Just some food for thought.