Why American Sentinel?

[RiverAux]

Anyone care to speculate on why CAP focused on getting CAP members benefits at American Sentinel Univeristy http://www.americansentinel.edu/index.php ?  It occurs to me that none of the degree programs offered are really all that relevant to CAP operations or missions.

I would think that some sort of program aimed at aviation, emergency management, or homeland security would have been more appropriate. 

Of course its entirely possible that some CAP member out there wanted to take their program and talked them into giving CAP a military discount, which got expanded nationally.   

[stillamarine]

American Sentinel has been providing discounts to military folks for a while, why not just take advantage of it and be happy??

I'm sure all the military personnel taking it aren't worried about if the courses are relevant to military operations or missions.

It's something good. Take advantage of it. Stop looking for a conspiracy in everything.

[RiverAux]

Who said anything about a conspiracy?  If we're going to devote any time or effort towards getting benefits for CAP members, I think it only makes sense to devote that towards benefits that might also bounce back and help CAP in some direct way. 

There are an infinite number of "benefits" that we might be able to get and only a limited amount of time and manpower to focus on getting the details of any one of them hammered out. 

This one just seemed out of place to me.  Stop seeing conspiracy theorys where there aren't any.   

[Eagle400]

Who said anything about a conspiracy?  If we're going to devote any time or effort towards getting benefits for CAP members, I think it only makes sense to devote that towards benefits that might also bounce back and help CAP in some direct way.

Don't worry, even the Air Force doesn't care what your college major is (unless you want to be a Doctor, JAG officer, scientist, or are commissioning in a program that requires a technical major). 

CAP is no different.

Of course, you don't need a degree (or any college credit) to become an officer in CAP, and Level I is more like... uh... learning the basics of miniature golf.      

[SarDragon]

Who said anything about a conspiracy?  If we're going to devote any time or effort towards getting benefits for CAP members, I think it only makes sense to devote that towards benefits that might also bounce back and help CAP in some direct way.

Don't worry, even the Air Force doesn't care what your college major is (unless you want to be a Doctor, JAG officer, scientist, or are commissioning in a program that requires a technical major). 

CAP is no different.

Of course, you don't need a degree (or any college credit) to become an officer in CAP, and Level I is more like... uh... learning the basics of miniature golf.      

But you've never been to Level I, have you? I'll guarantee 1000% that my Level I classes were nothing like miniature golf. Right, Grump?

[DrJbdm]

American Sentinel University is not an Accredited University. If you earned a Bachelors degree there and then wanted to go to say, the University of Texas, or pretty much any other university to complete a Masters degree you would not be able to get accepted because  American Sentinel University is not a regionally accredited school.

Even if you did not earn a degree there but started a degree program, you could not transfer those credits.  So pretty much, any college work you do from them is worthless.

   The rule on accredition is, if you want it to be recognised and truly usable you must attend a regionally accredited University or College. American Sentinel University is Nationally accredited by the DETC if I remember correctly, however National accredition means almost nothing and is considered by many in academia to be worthless as NO regionally accredited school will accept those credits. In the world of education, regional accreditation is many times better then national accreditation. in fact if you where a police officer in Texas and wanted to earn a degree from American Sentinel University and use it in your career that program would be worthless for you since the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement ONLY accepts degrees or college credits earned at regionally accredited schools.

[Eagle400]

But you've never been to Level I, have you? I'll guarantee 1000% that my Level I classes were nothing like miniature golf. Right, Grump?

I am good friends with several people who have completed Level I, and they all believe it was a joke.  I have also observed Level I's being conducted.  So feel free to get off your high horse anytime, sir.   

I don't know... maybe the folks in your area actually make the training challenging... but not in my neck of the woods.

Also, realize that by your logic, someone who is a drug counselor needs to have smoked pot and sniffed cocaine (personal experience) in order to have credibility with drug addicts.  Does this kind of logic make sense?  I'll let you figure that out.       

[Eagle400]

American Sentinel University is not an Accredited University. If you earned a Bachelors degree there and then wanted to go to say, the University of Texas, or pretty much any other university to complete a Masters degree you would not be able to get accepted because  American Sentinel University is not a regionally accredited school.

Even if you did not earn a degree there but started a degree program, you could not transfer those credits.  So pretty much, any college work you do from them is worthless.

Hmmm... this is a very interesting development.  Now I know why this "university" was able to get away with allowing CAP members to receive military education benefits.  There's no way an accredited university would be able to get away with allowing CAP membes to receive military education benefits. 

I was suspicious about this whole thing from the beginning.  Now I know why.

[mikeylikey]

Good catch on the accreditation!  I highly reccomend no one take advantage of the "great CAP benefit", cause in the end all you are left with is a papermill degree and less cash then when you started.

Can anyone say "CAP CELLPHONE STORE"?  That was blow also!  What the crap is NHQ doing?  Apparently not looking out for the general membership!

[star1151]

American Sentinel University is not an Accredited University. If you earned a Bachelors degree there and then wanted to go to say, the University of Texas, or pretty much any other university to complete a Masters degree you would not be able to get accepted because  American Sentinel University is not a regionally accredited school.

I kind of wondered about that, since I couldn't find anything on their website regarding accreditation (which was a red flag right off the bat).  My biggest issue is that they're pandering to military personnel, who would end up with a basically useless degree.  Sure, people ought to do the research on their own to find out if the school is worth it, but it seems irresponsible to promote this type of school to anyone.  Makes me wonder what CAP was thinking.

[RiverAux]

They say they are accreddited by the Distance Education & Training Council

[O-Rex]

If you are looking for credits that transfer, you want a school that is regionally-accreditedex., Southern Association of Colleges & Schools.

If you are looking for a job, seeking a commission, or looking to go to grad school, accreditation is VERY important.

[star1151]

They say they are accreddited by the Distance Education & Training Council

That's a national accreditation body.  With all the press lately about diploma mills, I'm surprised anyone's actually taking classes there.

[Wizard]

They say they are accreddited by the Distance Education & Training Council

If you're concerned with being able to have an accredited degree that would be useful, I would recommend American Military University which is regionally-accredited and does accept USAF PME ( Squadron Officer's School; Air Command and Staff College and Air War College) toward their respective programs.  I had other transferable credits which were much more aligned with my degree, otherwise I would transfer my ACSC credit once I finish it.

Also...if you have CAC card access...you can also take DOCNET courses for free for 1 undergraduate college credit each 

https://ca.dtic.mil/doctrine/default.htm


Just a thought...

--Wiz

[DrJbdm]

If any one is really interested in on-line education to earn a degree there are several good internet schools that are fully accredited.

Charter Oak State College: they are fully accredited by the New England Association of colleges and Schools and have no maximum number of credits that you can earn by exam (CLEP/DANTES/GRE exams) So it is very possible to earn ALL the credits you need for a degree complately thru exams. I have a friend who did that by transferring his military education credits and then CLEPing out of all of his other courses and taking a GRE subject area exam.

Thomas Edison State College is also a very good regionally accredited school for earning a degree on-line, they offer guided study courses that you can complete rather quickly to receive course credit for a course that you need. They also offer portfolio Assessment so you can receive college credit for something you already know, like speaking Spanish. Why should you have to take a Spanish course if you grew up speaking the language? shouldn't you be able to receive the credit for the course because you already know the material? Also like Charter Oak, they are very liberal about awarding transfer credits or with the honoring of ACE credits.

ACE  (American Council on Education) for example, ACE recommends 6 hrs undergraduate credit for having a Private Pilot License, they also recommend 6 hrs for having an instrument rating. that's 12 hrs of college credit for something you already have. If you had your commercial and CFI you could earn a total of 21 hrs of college credits. ACE can be your best friend when it comes to getting college credit for a course you have taken for your job or for recreation. Open Water Scuba diver? thats 1 credit hour in the Physical education area. They have even awarded college credit for some CAP courses in the past.

[O-Rex]

They say they are accreddited by the Distance Education & Training Council

If you're concerned with being able to have an accredited degree that would be useful, I would recommend American Military University which is regionally-accredited and does accept USAF PME ( Squadron Officer's School; Air Command and Staff College and Air War College) toward their respective programs.  I had other transferable credits which were much more aligned with my degree, otherwise I would transfer my ACSC credit once I finish it.

Also...if you have CAC card access...you can also take DOCNET courses for free for 1 undergraduate college credit each 

https://ca.dtic.mil/doctrine/default.htm


Just a thought...

--Wiz

. . .or a .gov email, which some members have.

[Tubacap]

I am currently taking classes at AMU, and love it.  Challenging, but very educational.

[Dutchboy]

Can anyone say "CAP CELLPHONE STORE"?  That was blow also!  What the crap is NHQ doing? 

I think they are recieving a commission check possibly?

[TankerT]

They say they are accreddited by the Distance Education & Training Council

As many people have said, regionally accredited is what you want.  I.E. Harvard is regionally accredited.  Your state university probably is too.  Many, many distance programs are NOT regionally accredited.  (Instead, they are accredited by DETC.)  You'll find that hardly anyone will accept a transfer credit from DETC.

Another important aspect is that even if your school is regionally accredited, the degree you get may not be of use if you want to pursue a specific career, unless the school also has an accreditation in that field from the appropriate professional accreditation organization.  For example, if you want to be a Nurse, some states require that if you want to get your license, your degree must come from a degree that comes from a program that is accredited by the National League for Nursing Accrediting Commission (NLNAC).

And, if you want to pursue an MBA at a prestigious graduate school, many require that your bachelor's degree come from a program that is accredited by the Association of Collegiate Business Schools and Programs (ACBSP).  (There is also another business accreditation... but I forget what it is...)

So... not only is the main type of accreditation useful... the additional program specific accreditation may also be important.

My view... American Sentinel University is not going to help you unless all you want is a degree that is "accredited."  (DETC is considered accredited for many things... such as some federal jobs which require an accredited degree...)  Although, you can probably do much better with a state university that offers distance programs or a small private college that has a night class option.

And, not all accredited programs are quality.  (I.E. University of Phoenix is accredited... but is considered a fourth tier university, and is not well respected in the academic community...)

So, many things to consider.

[James Shaw]

I beg to differ on the National VS Regional Accreditation. I have attended both types of schools and have been accepted to a Regionally Accredited college with a Nationally accredited Under Grad degree. The National level accreditation hasn't been around as long as the regional but is still recognized by the DOE as an accrediting body the same as the regional schools. If you look at some of the Regional colleges they accept the National accreditation. Not all but some. They just passed a law in congress that would require regionally accredited colleges to accept national accredited schools transfer degrees that have been completed.

The information is available from the web.

http://www.ellis.nyit.edu/difference/accreditation.php (accepted undergrad degree)

http://www.detc.org/about.html (DOE recognized thed same as regional)

The military does recognize DETC degrees, the licensing department for the state of GA recognizes my under grad for licensure as a counselor that I earned through my DETC school, and my employeer is one of the hardest companies to get to recognize distance education degrees Procter and Gamble for reimbursement. I would personally pit my knowledge of Human Resources Management against any Regional program.

[brasda91]

So the only problem with the accrediation is if you're going to transfer to another school?  If you complete your degree through American Sentinel, does an employer care if the degree is accrediated?  Is it more important to the employer that you simply have a degree?

[James Shaw]

So the only problem with the accrediation is if you're going to transfer to another school?  If you complete your degree through American Sentinel, does an employer care if the degree is accrediated?  Is it more important to the employer that you simply have a degree?

It is important to make sure the school is accredited. You do have to look for their accreditation and make sure they are legit. There is a school Kennedy Western who has all the looks of a great online school but they do not have any accreditation throug the DOE. Research into the school is very important.

[star1151]

So the only problem with the accrediation is if you're going to transfer to another school?  If you complete your degree through American Sentinel, does an employer care if the degree is accrediated?  Is it more important to the employer that you simply have a degree?

My employer requires a degree for most positions.  And for some positions, yes, they require a degree from an accredited university and that is posted in the job description.  Do they care for other jobs?  Who knows, probably on a case by case basis.  I don't know why anyone would do the work for a degree that may be useless.

[TankerT]

I beg to differ on the National VS Regional Accreditation. I have attended both types of schools and have been accepted to a Regionally Accredited college with a Nationally accredited Under Grad degree. The National level accreditation hasn't been around as long as the regional but is still recognized by the DOE as an accrediting body the same as the regional schools. If you look at some of the Regional colleges they accept the National accreditation. Not all but some. They just passed a law in congress that would require regionally accredited colleges to accept national accredited schools transfer degrees that have been completed.

The information is available from the web.

http://www.ellis.nyit.edu/difference/accreditation.php (accepted undergrad degree)

http://www.detc.org/about.html (DOE recognized thed same as regional)

The military does recognize DETC degrees, the licensing department for the state of GA recognizes my under grad for licensure as a counselor that I earned through my DETC school, and my employeer is one of the hardest companies to get to recognize distance education degrees Procter and Gamble for reimbursement. I would personally pit my knowledge of Human Resources Management against any Regional program.

I'm not trying to say that you can't get a quality education from a DETC program.  And, as I mentioned, many federal jobs recognize a DETC degree as being accredited.  This includes the military. However, anyone considering a DETC degree should look at their future goals before enrolling in such a program. 

For example, ALL of the University of Wisconsin System Schools require a regionally accredited degree, as does nearly every private College in Wisconsin for admission into their graduate programs.  Having a DETC degree is useless for admission into these programs. 

And, it is important to note that when it comes to federal aid programs, there are some restrictions when it comes to DETC programs.  (I.E. not all DETC are created equal when it comes to getting federal education money... where all regionally accredited schools are.)

Accreditation is something that people should be careful about when picking a school.  Most employers will accept a DETC degree as being accredited, depending on the field.  However, if it's not DETC or Regionally accredited... and is "accredited" by some other place... or "licensed to issue a degree in a state" does not equal accepted accreditation.  The Government only recognizes certain accrediting bodies.... those being the 6 regional entities, and DETC. 

Contrary to popular belief, the government doesn't actually accredit postsecondary programs.  Independent organizations do.  It's just that the DOE recognizes the accrediting body.

[0]

My only issue with the American Sentinal is that they don't offer too much.  I mean there are graduate degrees I'd love to pursue but they dont' offer them.  And it's stuff that usually is offered any where you go. 

[James Shaw]

The best advice I would have is that the person really needs to look at what they want to do with the degree as well. You may find some Engineering Technology Degrees online (mainly undergrad) that have all of the same requirements as a brick and morter school but the program is not recognized as an engineering program to test for a PE (professional engineer). They can be very tricky in their wording on their websites to lead to believe they are completly legit.  I almost feel into that trap many years ago when I started on my Associates. The school had a great website and the cost was good but it was State certified and neither Regionally or Nationally accredited and therefore my company say no.

I feel the quality of the education is also something you really need to look at before you invest alot of money. The course I was taking cost $550 for a 3 credit hour class and I was taking 2 at a time. That can be an expensive mistake.

My employeer requires.

The school has to have a website with the course cost per credit hour listed on the website.

They have to be either regionally or nationally recognized by the DOE and listed on that website.

They must offer financial aid for those who need it and proctored exams if it is an online school.

We must also be enrolled in a degree program and show our progress with every class.

They will pay for 100% tuition and books plus normal fees for each degree level up to Masters.

You have to make atleast a C in the class to get reimbursed.

[James Shaw]

New York Institute of Technology offers a 44% discount to military members and veterans. They are regionally and nationally accredited and accept degrees from the DETC. I just finished speaking to a counselor about this.

[0]

New York Institute of Technology offers a 44% discount to military members and veterans. They are regionally and nationally accredited and accept degrees from the DETC. I just finished speaking to a counselor about this.

But do they offer the same to us?

[DrJbdm]

For those who want to read about accreditation and learn about what it really means can read this article. Dr. John Bear, who is probably the formost expert in non-traditional education wrote this about accreditation:

   http://www.degree.net/guides/accreditation_guide.html


   It is my belief based on the facts of what is acceptable as transfer credit to major Universities and most State Universities; National Accreditation is really next to worthless. True many employers will accept a Nationally accredited degree, but those same employers really just care that the school is "accredited" but they seldom care by whom. I have seen many companies accept degree from completely unaccredited schools simply because the school claims to be accredited.

  The Texas Commission on Law Enforcement Officer Standards and Education requires that any degree or college hours that an Officer has, must be accredited by any of the 6 regional accrediting bodies. Officers have lost their jobs because they have claimed a degree from a non accredited school. a DETC degree is worthless in Texas Law Enforcement.

   Bottom line, maybe for your goals a DETC school will work for you, and if so then great. however my thought is if you are going to invest the time and the money in getting an education you would be better off just going with a regionally accredited school. After all, it's the same cost and the same time investment.

[M.S.]

Simply explained there are six regional accrediting agencies --- one for each region of the US... they are: Middle States, New England, North Central, North West, Western & Southern.   If your school isn't accredited by one of them you should expect to have regular problems taking your degree and/or credit elsewhere.

Maybe your current employer will accept the diploma.  Maybe your next employer won't.  Do you really want to waste your time pursuing credits or a degree from an institution wherein you'll need to constantly battle and justify your coursework for the rest of your life?  Or hope your employer doesn't care or doesn't know the difference between only-nationally-accredited and regionally-accredited?   Or hope your next employer will accept your degree as real?   Or hope your local community college or wherever you go will accept the credits?

If your degree is regionally accredited pretty much everyone from Harvard and Cornell to your local community college will recognize it as being legit.  If your degree comes from some place not regionally accredited you'll always have to wonder and be ready to justify your degree or just hope nobody looks into it.  Does that sound like something worth your time and effort?  Probably not.

Avoid for-profit companies like "american sentinel" and stick with non-profit academic institutions.  You'll have much better luck, less heartache and less worry at night that people will think you've padded your resume.

[O-Rex]

For those who want to read about accreditation and learn about what it really means can read this article. Dr. John Bear, who is probably the formost expert in non-traditional education wrote this about accreditation:

   http://www.degree.net/guides/accreditation_guide.html

 

I read John Bear some years before web-based college was available, and his books actually helped me piece together a degree program from a hodge-podge of courses I had taken from different colleges at different military installations.

It's alot easier now than it was 10-15 years ago, and as the median age of our adult population gets older, I see the trend continuing.

Getting back to accreditation: it all depends on what you are ultimately seeking, but I think it would be best to invest one's time, effort and money in pursuing a degree program through an institution that no one will question.